National Rejoin March September 10th

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cryrst The garden of England 24 Aug 22 10.22am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle . Our Parliament is sovereign, not the EU Parliament. We only ever sent representatives there who belonged to our national parties, who implement their policies and manifestos in the UK, not the EU. Only if the EU became a federal organisation would that change. I think, along with many others, including some MEPs, you misunderstand the role of the MEP. EU law only had primacy because the UK Parliament agreed that it should. Sometimes things are more efficient when done with partners than done alone. Consider the meaning of subsidiarity. So what was Cameron wanting changed when he went? Just before he enacted a referendum on stay or leave. The EU wouldn’t budge on what he wanted changed because it knew that if the UK got privileges then others would want the same and the house of cards that is the EU tumbles down. There is surely no other explanation. I think it was primarily the free movement argument that the EU are so sanctimonious and special about. Tbh it doesn’t appear to be working for some countries but the press keep it muted on instructions I would guess. From who; doesn’t need poirot!
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cryrst

The garden of England 24 Aug 22 10.22am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Our Parliament is sovereign, not the EU Parliament. We only ever sent representatives there who belonged to our national parties, who implement their policies and manifestos in the UK, not the EU. Only if the EU became a federal organisation would that change.

I think, along with many others, including some MEPs, you misunderstand the role of the MEP.

EU law only had primacy because the UK Parliament agreed that it should. Sometimes things are more efficient when done with partners than done alone. Consider the meaning of subsidiarity.

So what was Cameron wanting changed when he went? Just before he enacted a referendum on stay or leave. The EU wouldn’t budge on what he wanted changed because it knew that if the UK got privileges then others would want the same and the house of cards that is the EU tumbles down. There is surely no other explanation.
I think it was primarily the free movement argument that the EU are so sanctimonious and special about. Tbh it doesn’t appear to be working for some countries but the press keep it muted on instructions I would guess. From who; doesn’t need poirot!

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Matov 24 Aug 22 10.39am
Originally posted by cryrst So what was Cameron wanting changed when he went? Just before he enacted a referendum on stay or leave. The EU wouldn’t budge on what he wanted changed because it knew that if the UK got privileges then others would want the same and the house of cards that is the EU tumbles down. There is surely no other explanation. Polling is to blame. The model that was used to gague peoples voting intentions in the run-up to the referendum was so skewed that it effectively done Cameron's legs. I have seen claims that once they managed to re-adjust the modelling and then applied it retrospectively, it showed, at times, a 10-point margin in favour of leaving. If Cameron had gone to Brussels with that information behind him, then I suspect the EU might have been a little bit more forthcoming with offers to help. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

24 Aug 22 10.39am

Originally posted by cryrst

Polling is to blame. The model that was used to gague peoples voting intentions in the run-up to the referendum was so skewed that it effectively done Cameron's legs. I have seen claims that once they managed to re-adjust the modelling and then applied it retrospectively, it showed, at times, a 10-point margin in favour of leaving.

If Cameron had gone to Brussels with that information behind him, then I suspect the EU might have been a little bit more forthcoming with offers to help.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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The Dolphin 24 Aug 22 10.53am
I hope they all enjoy the walk and the fresh air. We are not rejoining the EU I am pleased to say.
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The Dolphin

24 Aug 22 10.53am

I hope they all enjoy the walk and the fresh air.
We are not rejoining the EU I am pleased to say.

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HKOwen Hong Kong 24 Aug 22 10.54am
Originally posted by The Dolphin I hope they all enjoy the walk and the fresh air. We are not rejoining the EU I am pleased to say. Waitroses will be empty Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 24 Aug 22 10.54am

Originally posted by The Dolphin

I hope they all enjoy the walk and the fresh air.
We are not rejoining the EU I am pleased to say.

Waitroses will be empty

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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Badger11 Beckenham 24 Aug 22 10.59am
Originally posted by HKOwen Waitroses will be empty I expect Starbucks will do a roaring takeaway trade though Personally I don't care I hope they have a nice and safe day we are still not rejoining though. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 24 Aug 22 10.59am

Originally posted by HKOwen

Waitroses will be empty

I expect Starbucks will do a roaring takeaway trade though

Personally I don't care I hope they have a nice and safe day we are still not rejoining though.

One more point

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Matov 24 Aug 22 11.28am
Originally posted by HKOwen Waitroses will be empty And that march with be WHITE. Whiter than even my fat arse. Which is whiter than Richard Nixon. From the air, will look like the worlds longest line of coke. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

24 Aug 22 11.28am

Originally posted by HKOwen

Waitroses will be empty

And that march with be WHITE. Whiter than even my fat arse. Which is whiter than Richard Nixon. From the air, will look like the worlds longest line of coke.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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YT Oxford 24 Aug 22 12.03pm
Originally posted by Matov And that march with be WHITE. Whiter than even my fat arse. Which is whiter than Richard Nixon. From the air, will look like the worlds longest line of coke. Their houses will have been emptied (by the time they get home). Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 24 Aug 22 12.03pm

Originally posted by Matov

And that march with be WHITE. Whiter than even my fat arse. Which is whiter than Richard Nixon. From the air, will look like the worlds longest line of coke.

Their houses will have been emptied (by the time they get home).

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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Hrolf The Ganger 24 Aug 22 12.07pm
Originally posted by Matov The thing I never really quite understood about the EU and the wider 'project' was the smoke and mirrors they played around the Federalism goal. I think there are strong arguments to be made for it. A genuine, Pan-European vision that people would be willing to consider. Just think about the concept. A single, political entity, from the most western beaches of Portugal, all the way up to the Sino-Russian border (and yes, I see no reason why Russia should not be included). The potential is incredible. The most dynamic, creative, Continent. A civilisation beyond compare. If they were more collectively honest about that (and there are notable exceptions like Guy Verhofstadt) I genuinely think they would be given a hearing. Now my own view of what a Pan-European Federation would look like is no doubt wildly different to many others but it is a debate that needs to be had and for that to happen in the open. The EU failed miserably to do that. Edited by Matov (24 Aug 2022 9.55am) Anyone reading your Orwell quote might not realise it, but you are really an idealist. Do you seriously think that allowing fewer people to have more power is a good idea? Look at The USA. It is corrupt from top to bottom. I, for one, do not want to leave the future of my grandchildren in the hands of a few unaccountable foreigners. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (24 Aug 2022 12.08pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger

24 Aug 22 12.07pm

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Originally posted by Matov

The thing I never really quite understood about the EU and the wider 'project' was the smoke and mirrors they played around the Federalism goal.

I think there are strong arguments to be made for it. A genuine, Pan-European vision that people would be willing to consider. Just think about the concept. A single, political entity, from the most western beaches of Portugal, all the way up to the Sino-Russian border (and yes, I see no reason why Russia should not be included). The potential is incredible. The most dynamic, creative, Continent. A civilisation beyond compare.

If they were more collectively honest about that (and there are notable exceptions like Guy Verhofstadt) I genuinely think they would be given a hearing.

Now my own view of what a Pan-European Federation would look like is no doubt wildly different to many others but it is a debate that needs to be had and for that to happen in the open. The EU failed miserably to do that.

Edited by Matov (24 Aug 2022 9.55am)

Anyone reading your Orwell quote might not realise it, but you are really an idealist.

Do you seriously think that allowing fewer people to have more power is a good idea?

Look at The USA. It is corrupt from top to bottom.

I, for one, do not want to leave the future of my grandchildren in the hands of a few unaccountable foreigners.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (24 Aug 2022 12.08pm)

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steeleye20 Croydon 24 Aug 22 12.17pm
'Tory MP admits immigration has risen due to brexit'. Brave soul. Any reference to the truth is impossible in post-brexit Britain.
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steeleye20

Croydon 24 Aug 22 12.17pm

'Tory MP admits immigration has risen due to brexit'.

Brave soul.

Any reference to the truth is impossible in post-brexit Britain.

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Teddy Eagle Online 24 Aug 22 12.24pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 'Tory MP admits immigration has risen due to brexit'. Brave soul. Any reference to the truth is impossible in post-brexit Britain. Obviously not impossible if it's been said.
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Teddy Eagle Online

24 Aug 22 12.24pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

'Tory MP admits immigration has risen due to brexit'.

Brave soul.

Any reference to the truth is impossible in post-brexit Britain.

Obviously not impossible if it's been said.

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steeleye20 Croydon 24 Aug 22 12.35pm
Our post-brexit problems mount up daily, the UK is rushing into a trade agreement with India the price of which is further unrestricted immigration from there. Neither does the UK control its borders as the record intake from France shows.
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steeleye20

Croydon 24 Aug 22 12.35pm

Our post-brexit problems mount up daily, the UK is rushing into a trade agreement with India the price of which is further unrestricted immigration from there.

Neither does the UK control its borders as the record intake from France shows.

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Wisbech Eagle Online Truro Cornwall 24 Aug 22 12.44pm
Originally posted by HKOwen There is no point in arguing with someone who is wrong in fact and will not accept it, but is happy to go along accusing others of ignorance, it's a deluded state of self adequacy. Show me anything that I have said that is factually incorrect and I will happily accept it. I suspect the issue is much more to do with emphasis and interpretation than fact. Those that confuse opinion with fact are doomed to be mired in such issues. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle Online

Truro Cornwall 24 Aug 22 12.44pm

Originally posted by HKOwen

There is no point in arguing with someone who is wrong in fact and will not accept it, but is happy to go along accusing others of ignorance, it's a deluded state of self adequacy.

Show me anything that I have said that is factually incorrect and I will happily accept it.

I suspect the issue is much more to do with emphasis and interpretation than fact. Those that confuse opinion with fact are doomed to be mired in such issues.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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