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rednblue4eva Norwood 14 Jun 16 12.36pm | |
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Of course Donald Trump claims the solution is more guns!
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johnfirewall 14 Jun 16 12.50pm | |
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To draw that conclusion you have to blame something else other than guns i.e. Muslims which he sadly does. You can't ban Islam and you can't ban guns. What you can do is make sure you prevent radicalisation, a strategy which the United States doesn't have under official policy AND (the combination being the key part here) stop people buying assault weapons which there are absolutely no civilian requirement for. Again, the sort of politics you'd expect in a situation where you're voting for the least worse candidate.
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Hrolf The Ganger 14 Jun 16 12.51pm | |
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At last a thread on this. We managed pegging but not a debate on 49 people being murdered. First let me say that Donald Trump is not to blame. Secondly. Donald trump is a self serving politician like all the others. Deal with it. Thirdly. Let us be under no illusion that the extreme version of Islam that has inspired this and many other atrocities is a real problem that is pervading our society, Christian,Jew,Hindu and Muslim alike. Extreme religion wants to impose itself on our lives and undo all the progress we have made in the Western World. It wants to persecute gay people, treat women like slaves and stop science and free speech. Now I have a disliking for all religion as you will know by now but right now a twisted radical version of one in particular is the current problem. What as people of Planet Earth are we going to do about it?
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Part Time James 14 Jun 16 12.54pm | |
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I'm yet to hear of a radicalised Scientologist that has killed a load of people and yet they are the ones people go round calling "crackers". I'm not sure what my point was, maybe I had one when I started typing.
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Alexi_the_Eagle Newton-le-Willows 14 Jun 16 12.56pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
At last a thread on this. We managed pegging but not a debate on 49 people being murdered. First let me say that Donald Trump is not to blame. Secondly. Donald trump is a self serving politician like all the others. Deal with it. Thirdly. Let us be under no illusion that the extreme version of Islam that has inspired this and many other atrocities is a real problem that is pervading our society, Christian,Jew,Hindu and Muslim alike. Extreme religion wants to impose itself on our lives and undo all the progress we have made in the Western World. It wants to persecute gay people, treat women like slaves and stop science and free speech. Now I have a disliking for all religion as you will know by now but right now a twisted radical version of one in particular is the current problem. What as people of Planet Earth are we going to do about it? Lots of rumours going around that ISIS's main leader has been killed in an airstrike. So if they're true, then this twisted little cult is as good as finished.
"Look at that. Accident blackspot? These aren't accidents! They're throwing themselves into the road gladly! Throwing themselves into the road to escape all this hideousness!" |
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johnfirewall 14 Jun 16 1.04pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Stop being cnuts. I blame the sort of politics which fails to address why people are being cnuts. I was concerned for a second I'd crossed over to the left in wanting a degree of unity whereby we are just one people, but surely to facilitate that you'd require a two way process which would involve atheists absorbing elements of various religions and I'm not up for the homophobia, or a lot of the other aspects. Maybe a one way process then? But you can't tell people their beliefs are wrong.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 14 Jun 16 1.06pm | |
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Stop people with a history of violence, mental health problems and who appear on FBI terrorism watch lists from buying assault rifles and firearms would probably be a start. Whilst the individual was clearly inspired by IS, and radical Islam, he wasn't actually a member of any terrorist group or affiliation. In fact it seems he may well have not been all that much of a radical Muslim either, given he was a regular at Pulse and had been known to get drunk there, and used a gay dating app. Also, it seems that he had a history of domestic violence, showed clear signs of bi-polar disorder. He'd also been investigated by the FBI as a suspected terrorist, and cleared. Twice I believe. Something you tend to see in spree shootings, is mentally unravelled people, associating themselves to extremist agendas, that effectively justify their rage. Neo-Nazism, nihilism and fundamentalism often appeal to people who have experienced a psychotic episode because it provides proof that their paranoia and delusions are not false, and offers a 'solution'. The attack bears far more similarity to other Spree shootings in the US, than to terrorism. The idea of the 'lone wolf' terrorist, has become a convenient means of explaining away what are very serious issues in the US around hate, violence, guns, mental health and race. Its no more an act of terrorism than the Columbine shootings were. Its pretty clear that he 'self identified' to IS, rather than was actually part of it (even is declaration of support was incorrectly presented. But for the US, it'll be easier to deal with this as Terrorism.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Stuk Top half 14 Jun 16 1.14pm | |
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Originally posted by Part Time James
I'm yet to hear of a radicalised Scientologist that has killed a load of people and yet they are the ones people go round calling "crackers". I'm not sure what my point was, maybe I had one when I started typing. That's more to do with the colour of most scientologists.
Optimistic as ever |
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Part Time James 14 Jun 16 1.18pm | |
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Originally posted by Stuk
That's more to do with the colour of most scientologists. The colour of them or their aura?
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jamiemartin721 Reading 14 Jun 16 1.22pm | |
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Its also interesting how the media have focused on projecting this attack as being 'the second worst terrorist attack' on the US. It kind of seems very dismissive of the fact that McVey killed 169 and injured several hundreds, as part of a Christian Militia attack on the US government infrastructure.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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nairb75 Baltimore 14 Jun 16 1.23pm | |
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now it comes out that the guy had gone to the club many times. people claiming he had gay tendencies of some sort. he was all over the map. more of a mentally ill man, who found himself an excuse to do something terrible. and of course, he had no problem getting access to military grade weaponry....for snakes and such.
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Hrolf The Ganger 14 Jun 16 1.23pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Stop people with a history of violence, mental health problems and who appear on FBI terrorism watch lists from buying assault rifles and firearms would probably be a start. Whilst the individual was clearly inspired by IS, and radical Islam, he wasn't actually a member of any terrorist group or affiliation. In fact it seems he may well have not been all that much of a radical Muslim either, given he was a regular at Pulse and had been known to get drunk there, and used a gay dating app. Also, it seems that he had a history of domestic violence, showed clear signs of bi-polar disorder. He'd also been investigated by the FBI as a suspected terrorist, and cleared. Twice I believe. Something you tend to see in spree shootings, is mentally unravelled people, associating themselves to extremist agendas, that effectively justify their rage. Neo-Nazism, nihilism and fundamentalism often appeal to people who have experienced a psychotic episode because it provides proof that their paranoia and delusions are not false, and offers a 'solution'. The attack bears far more similarity to other Spree shootings in the US, than to terrorism. The idea of the 'lone wolf' terrorist, has become a convenient means of explaining away what are very serious issues in the US around hate, violence, guns, mental health and race. Its no more an act of terrorism than the Columbine shootings were. Its pretty clear that he 'self identified' to IS, rather than was actually part of it (even is declaration of support was incorrectly presented. But for the US, it'll be easier to deal with this as Terrorism. Yes. We are battling an idea, not an organisation in the traditional sense. It often comes down to identification with a particular ideology. We must cut the head off(ironically)this many tentacled beast and hope it dies. What we can't do is live in denial about the spread of this cancer among certain sections of the population. We can't keep blaming it on mental health and somehow disassociating it from radical Islam. It is the common denominator. If radical Islam ceases to exist then this particular problem goes away.
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