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Agent Stakeknife
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 matt_himself  Matataland 21 Oct 15 10.13pm |
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I find this fascinating. The politics of the Irish situation in the Eighties and Nineties is so murky, the truth is somewhere between genuine recollection and fantasy.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Oct 15 8.55am |
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Quote matt_himself at 21 Oct 2015 10.13pm
I find this fascinating. The politics of the Irish situation in the Eighties and Nineties is so murky, the truth is somewhere between genuine recollection and fantasy. I think for all the terrible things the IRA did, there are a lot of unanswered things that we the British colluded in that are only beginning to surface. Of course it was 'that kind of conflict' where you have to get your hands 'very dirty', but I can't help but feel that ultimately we 'weren't much better' than the Loyalists or Provos.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Hoof Hearted 22 Oct 15 9.59am | |
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When I heard this on the radio I thought it was Agent Steak-knife. I imagined there was also a Chinese undercover agent called Chop-Stick.
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| DanH SW2 22 Oct 15 10.39am |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Oct 2015 9.59am
When I heard this on the radio I thought it was Agent Steak-knife. I imagined there was also a Chinese undercover agent called Chop-Stick.
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| Red-Blue-Yellow Surrey 22 Oct 15 11.26am |
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From a couple of conversations I've had with Republican friends, I worry that this will open old wounds and lead to a bout of 'scores being settled' rather than closure and reconcilliation. It would be appropriate if parallel investigations were carried on into the network of informers within the UDF at the same time. For all that that the sectarian forces did in terms of barbaric and inhuman acts of war, the sooner we own up to being the bigger bas+ards in all this, the better. The manipulation of individuals on both sides by British interests was a necessary evil but the truth - or as much as can be extracted from an obviously secretive operation - must come out.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Oct 15 12.42pm |
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Quote Red-Blue-Yellow at 22 Oct 2015 11.26am
From a couple of conversations I've had with Republican friends, I worry that this will open old wounds and lead to a bout of 'scores being settled' rather than closure and reconcilliation. It would be appropriate if parallel investigations were carried on into the network of informers within the UDF at the same time. For all that that the sectarian forces did in terms of barbaric and inhuman acts of war, the sooner we own up to being the bigger bas+ards in all this, the better. The manipulation of individuals on both sides by British interests was a necessary evil but the truth - or as much as can be extracted from an obviously secretive operation - must come out. Not sure we were necessarily the bigger b******, given the antics of the Shankhill butchers, for want of an example, but I think the idea that we weren't directing loyalist groups, maybe provo groups and protecting undercover assets who were guilty of serious crimes, would be exceptionally nieve. Essentially the goal of intelligence services is to obtain information and subvert conspiracies, which typically means people who are guilty of something (and in the areas where MI-5 and MI-6 tend to tread, they're guilty of terrible things). Ultimately, MI-5 and Special Branch in NI (along with the FRU etc) were always going to be 'dirty' by their actions. Its what gets called the 'greater good'. Its probably likely that an asset like Stakeknife would not only have been 'forgiven' his crimes, but might very well have been protected by letting others suffer in their place (such as directing Loyalists away from him to other targets). Certainly its a widely held belief, in the security services and wider spectrum, that the Intelligence agencies intervened on several occasions to prevent the assassination of Gerry Adams, both by loyalists, the INLA (after the Provos killed Costello)and by hardline factions in the PIRA.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 25 Oct 15 1.18pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 22 Oct 2015 12.42pm
Quote Red-Blue-Yellow at 22 Oct 2015 11.26am
From a couple of conversations I've had with Republican friends, I worry that this will open old wounds and lead to a bout of 'scores being settled' rather than closure and reconcilliation. It would be appropriate if parallel investigations were carried on into the network of informers within the UDF at the same time. For all that that the sectarian forces did in terms of barbaric and inhuman acts of war, the sooner we own up to being the bigger bas+ards in all this, the better. The manipulation of individuals on both sides by British interests was a necessary evil but the truth - or as much as can be extracted from an obviously secretive operation - must come out. Not sure we were necessarily the bigger b******, given the antics of the Shankhill butchers, for want of an example, but I think the idea that we weren't directing loyalist groups, maybe provo groups and protecting undercover assets who were guilty of serious crimes, would be exceptionally nieve. Essentially the goal of intelligence services is to obtain information and subvert conspiracies, which typically means people who are guilty of something (and in the areas where MI-5 and MI-6 tend to tread, they're guilty of terrible things). Ultimately, MI-5 and Special Branch in NI (along with the FRU etc) were always going to be 'dirty' by their actions. Its what gets called the 'greater good'. Its probably likely that an asset like Stakeknife would not only have been 'forgiven' his crimes, but might very well have been protected by letting others suffer in their place (such as directing Loyalists away from him to other targets). Certainly its a widely held belief, in the security services and wider spectrum, that the Intelligence agencies intervened on several occasions to prevent the assassination of Gerry Adams, both by loyalists, the INLA (after the Provos killed Costello)and by hardline factions in the PIRA.
Red and Blue Army! |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 25 Oct 15 2.14pm |
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Quote ASCPFC at 25 Oct 2015 1.18pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 22 Oct 2015 12.42pm
Quote Red-Blue-Yellow at 22 Oct 2015 11.26am
From a couple of conversations I've had with Republican friends, I worry that this will open old wounds and lead to a bout of 'scores being settled' rather than closure and reconcilliation. It would be appropriate if parallel investigations were carried on into the network of informers within the UDF at the same time. For all that that the sectarian forces did in terms of barbaric and inhuman acts of war, the sooner we own up to being the bigger bas+ards in all this, the better. The manipulation of individuals on both sides by British interests was a necessary evil but the truth - or as much as can be extracted from an obviously secretive operation - must come out. Not sure we were necessarily the bigger b******, given the antics of the Shankhill butchers, for want of an example, but I think the idea that we weren't directing loyalist groups, maybe provo groups and protecting undercover assets who were guilty of serious crimes, would be exceptionally nieve. Essentially the goal of intelligence services is to obtain information and subvert conspiracies, which typically means people who are guilty of something (and in the areas where MI-5 and MI-6 tend to tread, they're guilty of terrible things). Ultimately, MI-5 and Special Branch in NI (along with the FRU etc) were always going to be 'dirty' by their actions. Its what gets called the 'greater good'. Its probably likely that an asset like Stakeknife would not only have been 'forgiven' his crimes, but might very well have been protected by letting others suffer in their place (such as directing Loyalists away from him to other targets). Certainly its a widely held belief, in the security services and wider spectrum, that the Intelligence agencies intervened on several occasions to prevent the assassination of Gerry Adams, both by loyalists, the INLA (after the Provos killed Costello)and by hardline factions in the PIRA.
That wasn't why they did it though, the specifically pursued an agenda of protecting Adams as he was seen as the moderate and reforming within the PIRA. Adams wasn't so much seen as a rat, but as someone who could bring the troubles to a conclusion.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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