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A Bully In Parliament

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Red-Blue-Yellow Flag Surrey 20 Oct 15 7.26pm Send a Private Message to Red-Blue-Yellow Add Red-Blue-Yellow as a friend

The House of Lords could be suspended or flooded with Tory peers if it takes the 'nuclear option' of killing off George Osborne’s tax credits cuts next week, government sources have warned.

Furious Conservatives are threatening retaliation if peers decide to take the unprecedented step of using a so-called ‘fatal motion’ to wreck the Chancellor’s plans to slash the welfare bill.

Their warning comes after we revealed that a cross-party group of peers was set to table a 'fatal motion' to scupper the statutory instrument needed to clear the way for the cuts to come into force next April.

On Monday evening the Treasury also took further steps to face down its critics, releasing analysis which it said showed Osborne's welfare reforms have saved the taxpayer £15bn a year.

Crossbencher Baroness Meacher, seen as the most likely leader of the revolt in the Lords, said today that there was wide-ranging concern over the impact the tax credits changes would have on large numbers of families earning low wages.

'Fatal motions' are used very rarely as unelected peers are wary of overstepping their powers to delay an elected government’s legislation.

Campaigners believe that the usual Salisbury convention, which stops the Lords from blocking a party’s plans, does not apply because the tax credits cuts were not mentioned in the Tory manifesto in May.

But a fatal motion on a financial matter would be unprecedented and Tory sources are determined that the Lords would have to pay a serious political price if the Government is defeated next week.

“If they do this, they will turn this from being a matter about tax credits into a huge constitutional issue of the Lords’ powers,” one insider said.

One option is to simply suspend the Lords’ entire business, and process bills purely through the Commons, while another is to draft a list of new Tory peers to allow the party to get its business through the upper chamber.

SOURCE: Huffington Post

This goes so close to being fascism as to make no difference. I'm just surprised it's so blatent.

 


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OldFella Flag London 20 Oct 15 8.12pm Send a Private Message to OldFella Add OldFella as a friend

Quote Red-Blue-Yellow at 20 Oct 2015 7.26pm

The House of Lords could be suspended or flooded with Tory peers if it takes the 'nuclear option' of killing off George Osborne’s tax credits cuts next week, government sources have warned.

Furious Conservatives are threatening retaliation if peers decide to take the unprecedented step of using a so-called ‘fatal motion’ to wreck the Chancellor’s plans to slash the welfare bill.

Their warning comes after we revealed that a cross-party group of peers was set to table a 'fatal motion' to scupper the statutory instrument needed to clear the way for the cuts to come into force next April.

On Monday evening the Treasury also took further steps to face down its critics, releasing analysis which it said showed Osborne's welfare reforms have saved the taxpayer £15bn a year.

Crossbencher Baroness Meacher, seen as the most likely leader of the revolt in the Lords, said today that there was wide-ranging concern over the impact the tax credits changes would have on large numbers of families earning low wages.

'Fatal motions' are used very rarely as unelected peers are wary of overstepping their powers to delay an elected government’s legislation.

Campaigners believe that the usual Salisbury convention, which stops the Lords from blocking a party’s plans, does not apply because the tax credits cuts were not mentioned in the Tory manifesto in May.

But a fatal motion on a financial matter would be unprecedented and Tory sources are determined that the Lords would have to pay a serious political price if the Government is defeated next week.

“If they do this, they will turn this from being a matter about tax credits into a huge constitutional issue of the Lords’ powers,” one insider said.

One option is to simply suspend the Lords’ entire business, and process bills purely through the Commons, while another is to draft a list of new Tory peers to allow the party to get its business through the upper chamber.

SOURCE: Huffington Post

This goes so close to being fascism as to make no difference. I'm just surprised it's so blatent.

One sentence of your own - the word is "blatant", by the way


 


Jackson.. Wan Bissaka.... Sansom.. Nicholas.. Cannon.. Guehi.... Zaha... Thomas.. Byrne... Holton.. Rogers.. that should do it..

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SwalecliffeEagle Flag Swalecliffe 21 Oct 15 12.03am Send a Private Message to SwalecliffeEagle Add SwalecliffeEagle as a friend

Quote OldFella at 20 Oct 2015 8.12pm

Quote Red-Blue-Yellow at 20 Oct 2015 7.26pm

The House of Lords could be suspended or flooded with Tory peers if it takes the 'nuclear option' of killing off George Osborne’s tax credits cuts next week, government sources have warned.

Furious Conservatives are threatening retaliation if peers decide to take the unprecedented step of using a so-called ‘fatal motion’ to wreck the Chancellor’s plans to slash the welfare bill.

Their warning comes after we revealed that a cross-party group of peers was set to table a 'fatal motion' to scupper the statutory instrument needed to clear the way for the cuts to come into force next April.

On Monday evening the Treasury also took further steps to face down its critics, releasing analysis which it said showed Osborne's welfare reforms have saved the taxpayer £15bn a year.

Crossbencher Baroness Meacher, seen as the most likely leader of the revolt in the Lords, said today that there was wide-ranging concern over the impact the tax credits changes would have on large numbers of families earning low wages.

'Fatal motions' are used very rarely as unelected peers are wary of overstepping their powers to delay an elected government’s legislation.

Campaigners believe that the usual Salisbury convention, which stops the Lords from blocking a party’s plans, does not apply because the tax credits cuts were not mentioned in the Tory manifesto in May.

But a fatal motion on a financial matter would be unprecedented and Tory sources are determined that the Lords would have to pay a serious political price if the Government is defeated next week.

“If they do this, they will turn this from being a matter about tax credits into a huge constitutional issue of the Lords’ powers,” one insider said.

One option is to simply suspend the Lords’ entire business, and process bills purely through the Commons, while another is to draft a list of new Tory peers to allow the party to get its business through the upper chamber.

SOURCE: Huffington Post

This goes so close to being fascism as to make no difference. I'm just surprised it's so blatent.

One sentence of your own - the word is "blatant", by the way



I know you're dyed-in-the-wool and all that, and I'm happy for you, really I am, but if his one sentence is bang on the money then it's better than a bloody hundred of them isn't it.

 

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Midlands Eagle Flag 21 Oct 15 6.19am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Quote Red-Blue-Yellow at 20 Oct 2015 7.26pm

One option is to simply suspend the Lords’ entire business, and process bills purely through the Commons, while another is to draft a list of new Tory peers to allow the party to get its business through the upper chamber.

SOURCE: Huffington Post

This goes so close to being fascism as to make no difference. I'm just surprised it's so blatent.


Why is an unelected body stopping the elected government carrying out it's legitimate business fascism?

 

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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 21 Oct 15 7.13am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Quote Midlands Eagle at 21 Oct 2015 6.19am

Quote Red-Blue-Yellow at 20 Oct 2015 7.26pm

One option is to simply suspend the Lords’ entire business, and process bills purely through the Commons, while another is to draft a list of new Tory peers to allow the party to get its business through the upper chamber.

SOURCE: Huffington Post

This goes so close to being fascism as to make no difference. I'm just surprised it's so blatent.


Why is an unelected body stopping the elected government carrying out it's legitimate business fascism?


It's called revolt. The Poll tax was morally wrong too and the unelected public managed to help u-turn it. Good luck to The Lords.

 


Big chest and massive boobs

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We are goin up! Flag Coulsdon 21 Oct 15 8.27am Send a Private Message to We are goin up! Add We are goin up! as a friend

Quote Kermit8 at 21 Oct 2015 7.13am

Quote Midlands Eagle at 21 Oct 2015 6.19am

Quote Red-Blue-Yellow at 20 Oct 2015 7.26pm

One option is to simply suspend the Lords’ entire business, and process bills purely through the Commons, while another is to draft a list of new Tory peers to allow the party to get its business through the upper chamber.

SOURCE: Huffington Post

This goes so close to being fascism as to make no difference. I'm just surprised it's so blatent.


Why is an unelected body stopping the elected government carrying out it's legitimate business fascism?


It's called revolt. The Poll tax was morally wrong too and the unelected public managed to help u-turn it. Good luck to The Lords.


Funny how the left call themselves democrats until democracy doesn't give them the result they want.

 


The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 21 Oct 15 9.02am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Quote We are goin up! at 21 Oct 2015 8.27am

Quote Kermit8 at 21 Oct 2015 7.13am

Quote Midlands Eagle at 21 Oct 2015 6.19am

Quote Red-Blue-Yellow at 20 Oct 2015 7.26pm

One option is to simply suspend the Lords’ entire business, and process bills purely through the Commons, while another is to draft a list of new Tory peers to allow the party to get its business through the upper chamber.

SOURCE: Huffington Post

This goes so close to being fascism as to make no difference. I'm just surprised it's so blatent.


Why is an unelected body stopping the elected government carrying out it's legitimate business fascism?


It's called revolt. The Poll tax was morally wrong too and the unelected public managed to help u-turn it. Good luck to The Lords.


Funny how the left call themselves democrats until democracy doesn't give them the result they want.


Democracy (rule by the people): If the majority don't want something to happen and they succeed in aborting it then that is democracy.

Poll Tax - success: Iraq War - fail. Tax credit loss - .....?

 


Big chest and massive boobs

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 21 Oct 15 9.27am

Quote Red-Blue-Yellow at 20 Oct 2015 7.26pm

The House of Lords could be suspended or flooded with Tory peers if it takes the 'nuclear option' of killing off George Osborne’s tax credits cuts next week, government sources have warned.

Furious Conservatives are threatening retaliation if peers decide to take the unprecedented step of using a so-called ‘fatal motion’ to wreck the Chancellor’s plans to slash the welfare bill.

Their warning comes after we revealed that a cross-party group of peers was set to table a 'fatal motion' to scupper the statutory instrument needed to clear the way for the cuts to come into force next April.

On Monday evening the Treasury also took further steps to face down its critics, releasing analysis which it said showed Osborne's welfare reforms have saved the taxpayer £15bn a year.

Crossbencher Baroness Meacher, seen as the most likely leader of the revolt in the Lords, said today that there was wide-ranging concern over the impact the tax credits changes would have on large numbers of families earning low wages.

'Fatal motions' are used very rarely as unelected peers are wary of overstepping their powers to delay an elected government’s legislation.

Campaigners believe that the usual Salisbury convention, which stops the Lords from blocking a party’s plans, does not apply because the tax credits cuts were not mentioned in the Tory manifesto in May.

But a fatal motion on a financial matter would be unprecedented and Tory sources are determined that the Lords would have to pay a serious political price if the Government is defeated next week.

“If they do this, they will turn this from being a matter about tax credits into a huge constitutional issue of the Lords’ powers,” one insider said.

One option is to simply suspend the Lords’ entire business, and process bills purely through the Commons, while another is to draft a list of new Tory peers to allow the party to get its business through the upper chamber.

SOURCE: Huffington Post

This goes so close to being fascism as to make no difference. I'm just surprised it's so blatent.

Democracy in action, do as we say or we will make you. Love it. Remember democracy is a five second action every 1825 days, to choose which group of s**ts you want to dictate your life.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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We are goin up! Flag Coulsdon 21 Oct 15 9.49am Send a Private Message to We are goin up! Add We are goin up! as a friend

Quote Kermit8 at 21 Oct 2015 9.02am

Quote We are goin up! at 21 Oct 2015 8.27am

Funny how the left call themselves democrats until democracy doesn't give them the result they want.


Democracy (rule by the people): If the majority don't want something to happen and they succeed in aborting it then that is democracy.

Poll Tax - success: Iraq War - fail. Tax credit loss - .....?


How do you know that the majority don't want tax credits cut? Did the Tories not get elected on the promise that they were going to slash welfare?

I've said on the other thread that I don't agree with the cut being quite this drastic, but I do agree that there's nothing progressive about burdening my generation (I'm 24) with massive debts and an unreformed welfare system. It needs cutting, it's massively bloated.

All this pie in the sky lefty rubbish about how unfair the world is is doing my head in. The Tories in my view were elected with a majority because they were the only ones trusted to make tough/ruthless/unpopular decisions that are in fact what's best for the country. It's now up to them to lead the country and they will be judged in five years' time.

You'll come back and tell me they should raise taxes on the wealthy instead. Pray tell, how much have wealth taxes raised in other countries? Look at the figures, it's sod all.

 


The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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DanH Flag SW2 21 Oct 15 9.56am Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Quote We are goin up! at 21 Oct 2015 9.49am

Quote Kermit8 at 21 Oct 2015 9.02am

Quote We are goin up! at 21 Oct 2015 8.27am

Funny how the left call themselves democrats until democracy doesn't give them the result they want.


Democracy (rule by the people): If the majority don't want something to happen and they succeed in aborting it then that is democracy.

Poll Tax - success: Iraq War - fail. Tax credit loss - .....?


How do you know that the majority don't want tax credits cut? Did the Tories not get elected on the promise that they were going to slash welfare?

I've said on the other thread that I don't agree with the cut being quite this drastic, but I do agree that there's nothing progressive about burdening my generation (I'm 24) with massive debts and an unreformed welfare system. It needs cutting, it's massively bloated.

All this pie in the sky lefty rubbish about how unfair the world is is doing my head in. The Tories in my view were elected with a majority because they were the only ones trusted to make tough/ruthless/unpopular decisions that are in fact what's best for the country. It's now up to them to lead the country and they will be judged in five years' time.

You'll come back and tell me they should raise taxes on the wealthy instead. Pray tell, how much have wealth taxes raised in other countries? Look at the figures, it's sod all.


Yes they said they would slash welfare, not by removing tax credits though. A lot of Middle England voted for them assuming that it would not affect them personally, however now the reality is hitting.

Even the Adam Smith Institure have called it a silly move, and that's a right leaning think tank.

 

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We are goin up! Flag Coulsdon 21 Oct 15 10.01am Send a Private Message to We are goin up! Add We are goin up! as a friend

Quote DanH at 21 Oct 2015 9.56am

Quote We are goin up! at 21 Oct 2015 9.49am

Quote Kermit8 at 21 Oct 2015 9.02am

Quote We are goin up! at 21 Oct 2015 8.27am

Funny how the left call themselves democrats until democracy doesn't give them the result they want.


Democracy (rule by the people): If the majority don't want something to happen and they succeed in aborting it then that is democracy.

Poll Tax - success: Iraq War - fail. Tax credit loss - .....?


How do you know that the majority don't want tax credits cut? Did the Tories not get elected on the promise that they were going to slash welfare?

I've said on the other thread that I don't agree with the cut being quite this drastic, but I do agree that there's nothing progressive about burdening my generation (I'm 24) with massive debts and an unreformed welfare system. It needs cutting, it's massively bloated.

All this pie in the sky lefty rubbish about how unfair the world is is doing my head in. The Tories in my view were elected with a majority because they were the only ones trusted to make tough/ruthless/unpopular decisions that are in fact what's best for the country. It's now up to them to lead the country and they will be judged in five years' time.

You'll come back and tell me they should raise taxes on the wealthy instead. Pray tell, how much have wealth taxes raised in other countries? Look at the figures, it's sod all.


Yes they said they would slash welfare, not by removing tax credits though. A lot of Middle England voted for them assuming that it would not affect them personally, however now the reality is hitting.

Even the Adam Smith Institure have called it a silly move, and that's a right leaning think tank.


Where should the welfare savings be made, then, if not middle England? Labour have freely admitted they'd put up taxes on that very group. I'd rather we cut the benefit and kept taxes low rather than churning money for the sake of looking "compassionate".

As I've said, I feel the benefit cut should be done at the same pace as the rise in the Living Wage, but the principle is right IMO.

 


The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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DanH Flag SW2 21 Oct 15 10.08am Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Quote We are goin up! at 21 Oct 2015 10.01am

Quote DanH at 21 Oct 2015 9.56am

Quote We are goin up! at 21 Oct 2015 9.49am

Quote Kermit8 at 21 Oct 2015 9.02am

Quote We are goin up! at 21 Oct 2015 8.27am

Funny how the left call themselves democrats until democracy doesn't give them the result they want.


Democracy (rule by the people): If the majority don't want something to happen and they succeed in aborting it then that is democracy.

Poll Tax - success: Iraq War - fail. Tax credit loss - .....?


How do you know that the majority don't want tax credits cut? Did the Tories not get elected on the promise that they were going to slash welfare?

I've said on the other thread that I don't agree with the cut being quite this drastic, but I do agree that there's nothing progressive about burdening my generation (I'm 24) with massive debts and an unreformed welfare system. It needs cutting, it's massively bloated.

All this pie in the sky lefty rubbish about how unfair the world is is doing my head in. The Tories in my view were elected with a majority because they were the only ones trusted to make tough/ruthless/unpopular decisions that are in fact what's best for the country. It's now up to them to lead the country and they will be judged in five years' time.

You'll come back and tell me they should raise taxes on the wealthy instead. Pray tell, how much have wealth taxes raised in other countries? Look at the figures, it's sod all.


Yes they said they would slash welfare, not by removing tax credits though. A lot of Middle England voted for them assuming that it would not affect them personally, however now the reality is hitting.

Even the Adam Smith Institure have called it a silly move, and that's a right leaning think tank.


Where should the welfare savings be made, then, if not middle England? Labour have freely admitted they'd put up taxes on that very group. I'd rather we cut the benefit and kept taxes low rather than churning money for the sake of looking "compassionate".

As I've said, I feel the benefit cut should be done at the same pace as the rise in the Living Wage, but the principle is right IMO.


I'm not saying that's not where it should be made. I'm saying a lot of people voted for the Tories thinking it would not affect them as they are the 'hard working aspirational family' type that the Tories supposedly champion.

 

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