Six of one - half dozen of the other.
Both sides committing offences - and blaming each other.
Only slight difference I can see is that the Israeli deaths are mainly random acts by hot heads and fanatics - whereas most Arab deaths are caused by the Israeli security forces.
As in most conflicts the majority of people on both sides just want peace and to be allowed to get on with their lives but events are dictate by extremists - on both side - who are unwilling to compromise.

Whilst we all know where this thread will end up - nowhere - I still find myself feeling the need to at least challenge some of the nonsense already peddled on this thread.

First and foremost - and I recommend reading this sentence a few times so you fully process it and don't start claiming that I'm some terrorist sympathiser - what happened in Israel is a tragedy, and Palestinian attacks on civilian areas is something morally indefensible in my opinion.

But the idea that they are inciting violence? Well I guess it depends upon what exactly you consider as inciting violence. Shall we remove all context for these attacks and suppose that they are committed by psychopaths with no purpose other than to aggravate the peaceful state of Israel? Or shall we acknowledge that even since the conflict fell down the pecking order in the British media, Israeli security forces have continued to confine children in prisons without trial, have continued to aggressively police Palestinian neighbours, refusing entry to certain areas of Gaza for people who have lived in said areas for generations? Shall we ignore the fact that on the West Bank Israelis continue to illegally settle their people on land which isn't theirs under international law? Maybe we should also ignore the fact that Gaza, one of the most impoverished areas in the world, is being refused vital medical, constructional and food supplies because of the ludicrously strict blockade imposed by Israelis?

Let's be clear then. The Palestinians aren't inciting violence, they are committing it. It is very much the Israelis who have incited recent actions, and the sad thing is these atrocities are only ever reported in the mainstream media once rockets and bombs are fired.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

Incredible.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

[Link]

The Palestine flag has now been raised outside the UN, so a step change.

Amidst heated debates about the political value of symbolic gestures, the General Assembly today adopted five resolutions on a wide range of topics, including the raising of flags by non-member observer States at the United Nations and debt restructuring.

In a discussion that began before the adoption and continued afterwards, delegates considered various aspects of the resolution. Calling it “a historic vote”, the observer of the State of Palestine said that the General Assembly had sent an important message to the Palestinian people at a critical time. While raising the flag would not end the occupation, it would signify to Palestinian people everywhere that the international community supported them.

With respect Matt, this view suggests a real lack of historical knowledge of this conflict. We've been down the peace route: the Oslo summit and Camp David, in which Arafat recognised Israel as a state and talks were held over a two state solution failed because what Israel offered was frankly derisory. Even the Israeli diplomats present have since said they wouldn't have accepted the US-Israel offer if they had been Palestinian.

In fact, formally, we've had 'peace' since the last siege. Yes, you have had nutters on both sides committing isolated acts of violence, be it the killing of a young child by Jewish extremists on the West Bank, or Palestinian suicide bombers in Jerusalem. Yet as I said, while you have had formal peace from both Fatah and Hamas in Palestine, the IDF, affiliated to the Israeli government, continues to kill people, sentence them to prison without trial and refuse them entry to their communities. 'Peace' is an incredibly loose term when we are talking about ceasefire in this conflict as more often than not what it entails is a more insidious form of warfare waged by Israel.

Edited by serial thriller (10 Oct 2015 1.27pm)

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

Quite ironic when you consider the actions of Zionist terrorists during the founding of Israel such as the bombing of the King David Hotel and the massacre of Deir Yassin. Two of the men behind these actions Menachem Begin & Yitzhak Shamir each became Prime Minister of Israel

I have prepared one of my own time capsules. I have placed some rather large samples of dynamite, gunpowder and nitroglycerin. My time capsule is set to go off in the year 3000. It will show them what we are really like.