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steeleye20 Croydon 27 Sep 21 10.20am
UK petrol station problems show Brexit was "intellectual fraud" - French minister Beaune. The only thing I can think of is the army, particularly as Starmer has ruled it out and Schapps is in permanent denial. The Daily Mail informs us that China needs 4 million drivers, clearly they have correspondents on the ground and have not made it up at all. It's good to have our political leaders and media on the ball.
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steeleye20

Croydon 27 Sep 21 10.20am

UK petrol station problems show Brexit was "intellectual fraud" - French minister Beaune.

The only thing I can think of is the army, particularly as Starmer has ruled it out and Schapps is in permanent denial.

The Daily Mail informs us that China needs 4 million drivers, clearly they have correspondents on the ground and have not made it up at all.

It's good to have our political leaders and media on the ball.

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kuge Peckham 27 Sep 21 10.33am
Originally posted by Badger11 Failure to plan is a plan for failure. I am annoyed that the government did not push the big companies on this, but they (government and corporations) had plenty of time but sat back and did very little. A big part of the problem with planning for a future situation trading etc outside the EU was for large companies that all the way through the negotiations it was very unclear what the outcome would be. Right up to the wire it might have been no deal. So how could companies plan? When it was entirely evident that the government had no plan it became legitimate or even necessary for companies to adopt a wait and see policy.
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kuge

Peckham 27 Sep 21 10.33am

Originally posted by Badger11

Failure to plan is a plan for failure.

I am annoyed that the government did not push the big companies on this, but they (government and corporations) had plenty of time but sat back and did very little.

A big part of the problem with planning for a future situation trading etc outside the EU was for large companies that all the way through the negotiations it was very unclear what the outcome would be. Right up to the wire it might have been no deal. So how could companies plan?
When it was entirely evident that the government had no plan it became legitimate or even necessary for companies to adopt a wait and see policy.

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Hrolf The Ganger 27 Sep 21 10.36am
Originally posted by steeleye20 UK petrol station problems show Brexit was "intellectual fraud" - French minister Beaune. The only thing I can think of is the army, particularly as Starmer has ruled it out and Schapps is in permanent denial. The Daily Mail informs us that China needs 4 million drivers, clearly they have correspondents on the ground and have not made it up at all. It's good to have our political leaders and media on the ball. What the non existent petrol shortage shows is how dumb people are and the fact that our membership of the EU allowed employers to underpay and treat staff badly with the result that not many wanted to be a lorry driver. Globalism means a lower standard of living for the majority.
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Hrolf The Ganger

27 Sep 21 10.36am

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Originally posted by steeleye20

UK petrol station problems show Brexit was "intellectual fraud" - French minister Beaune.

The only thing I can think of is the army, particularly as Starmer has ruled it out and Schapps is in permanent denial.

The Daily Mail informs us that China needs 4 million drivers, clearly they have correspondents on the ground and have not made it up at all.

It's good to have our political leaders and media on the ball.

What the non existent petrol shortage shows is how dumb people are and the fact that our membership of the EU allowed employers to underpay and treat staff badly with the result that not many wanted to be a lorry driver.

Globalism means a lower standard of living for the majority.

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Badger11 Beckenham 27 Sep 21 10.42am
Originally posted by kuge A big part of the problem with planning for a future situation trading etc outside the EU was for large companies that all the way through the negotiations it was very unclear what the outcome would be. Right up to the wire it might have been no deal. So how could companies plan? When it was entirely evident that the government had no plan it became legitimate or even necessary for companies to adopt a wait and see policy. Stop relying on cheap foreign labour and start paying your own staff a decent wage and training them. We would still have this problem if we had remained. Too little investment and poor productivity, blimey I sound like a lefty. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 27 Sep 21 10.42am

Originally posted by kuge

A big part of the problem with planning for a future situation trading etc outside the EU was for large companies that all the way through the negotiations it was very unclear what the outcome would be. Right up to the wire it might have been no deal. So how could companies plan?
When it was entirely evident that the government had no plan it became legitimate or even necessary for companies to adopt a wait and see policy.

Stop relying on cheap foreign labour and start paying your own staff a decent wage and training them. We would still have this problem if we had remained.

Too little investment and poor productivity, blimey I sound like a lefty.

One more point

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kuge Peckham 27 Sep 21 10.52am
Originally posted by jeeagles Companies need to be at the cutting edge to ensure a competitive economy. A competitive economy will create more jobs. Failure to automate killed our manufacturing industry. Having driven across the country this weekend, the petrol crisis seems to have been purely brought on due to the media and stupid customers. Go at the right time and there's empty stations and empty queues. The long term need for HGV drivers in reducing. In less than 10 years the sale of new petrol vehicles will be illegal. HS2 will free up capacity on the existing rail network for freight - where much more can be used with much less staff. Automation will undoubtedly bring benefits over the coming decades, but there are major problems in our logistics infrastructure that needed addressing ten years ago. It’s no good looking to technologies that even if the massive investment was made today would be unlikely to be in place in ten years from now. I am not saying we should not do this just that it’s not going to help now. If there is one thing that has cursed the UK post-war it is short-term thinking. The UK has failed to invest in high-speed trains since the 1960s. Japan, France, Germany, Italy, etc all have large networks of high-speed rail. The UK has near enough nothing. HS2 is not due to be finished to Birmingham until 2026, and the phase to Leeds and Manchester not until 2033. Also, HS2 will only help with freight if the government adds this to the project. So far too little too late. [Link]
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kuge

Peckham 27 Sep 21 10.52am

Originally posted by jeeagles

Companies need to be at the cutting edge to ensure a competitive economy.

A competitive economy will create more jobs.

Failure to automate killed our manufacturing industry.

Having driven across the country this weekend, the petrol crisis seems to have been purely brought on due to the media and stupid customers. Go at the right time and there's empty stations and empty queues.

The long term need for HGV drivers in reducing. In less than 10 years the sale of new petrol vehicles will be illegal. HS2 will free up capacity on the existing rail network for freight - where much more can be used with much less staff.

Automation will undoubtedly bring benefits over the coming decades, but there are major problems in our logistics infrastructure that needed addressing ten years ago.

It’s no good looking to technologies that even if the massive investment was made today would be unlikely to be in place in ten years from now. I am not saying we should not do this just that it’s not going to help now. If there is one thing that has cursed the UK post-war it is short-term thinking.

The UK has failed to invest in high-speed trains since the 1960s. Japan, France, Germany, Italy, etc all have large networks of high-speed rail. The UK has near enough nothing.

HS2 is not due to be finished to Birmingham until 2026, and the phase to Leeds and Manchester not until 2033. Also, HS2 will only help with freight if the government adds this to the project. So far too little too late.

[Link]

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kuge Peckham 27 Sep 21 11.01am
Originally posted by Badger11 Stop relying on cheap foreign labour and start paying your own staff a decent wage and training them. We would still have this problem if we had remained. Too little investment and poor productivity, blimey I sound like a lefty. Yes, it is very likely that we would have had a labour shortage if we had remained. The UK is chronically short of workers, especially in specific areas. Brexit has just made it that bit worse. I am gratified to read so much about how important it is to pay fair wages to people driving trucks etc. It’s almost like no one had noticed before that the Tories had designed and implemented a low-wage economy. The fact that we are short of doctors, nurses, truck driver, etc can only be the fault of those that have been in power for the past ten years. A lack of investment in training people in the UK to do the jobs that are required and will be required is a failure of government. Investment in education is an investment in everybody’s future.
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kuge

Peckham 27 Sep 21 11.01am

Originally posted by Badger11

Stop relying on cheap foreign labour and start paying your own staff a decent wage and training them. We would still have this problem if we had remained.

Too little investment and poor productivity, blimey I sound like a lefty.

Yes, it is very likely that we would have had a labour shortage if we had remained. The UK is chronically short of workers, especially in specific areas. Brexit has just made it that bit worse.

The fact that we are short of doctors, nurses, truck driver, etc can only be the fault of those that have been in power for the past ten years. A lack of investment in training people in the UK to do the jobs that are required and will be required is a failure of government. Investment in education is an investment in everybody’s future.

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Teddy Eagle 27 Sep 21 11.03am
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow So is this or isn't this to do with Brexit? Because you seem to be arguing it's nothing to do with Brexit, whilst claiming the lack of migrant workers providing cheap labour (ie. Brexit) is the cause. I don't think it's particularly Brexit related since driver shortage is apparently a worldwide phenomenon, as are various shortages resulting from Covid shutting down economies for so long. That workers chose to come to Britain to work for minimum wage doesn't reflect well on the EU job situation to me; my sympathy is for anyone who has to work for so little reward, regardless of where they come from.
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Teddy Eagle

27 Sep 21 11.03am

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

So is this or isn't this to do with Brexit?

Because you seem to be arguing it's nothing to do with Brexit, whilst claiming the lack of migrant workers providing cheap labour (ie. Brexit) is the cause.

I don't think it's particularly Brexit related since driver shortage is apparently a worldwide phenomenon, as are various shortages resulting from Covid shutting down economies for so long.
That workers chose to come to Britain to work for minimum wage doesn't reflect well on the EU job situation to me; my sympathy is for anyone who has to work for so little reward, regardless of where they come from.

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Badger11 Beckenham 27 Sep 21 11.17am
Originally posted by kuge Yes, it is very likely that we would have had a labour shortage if we had remained. The UK is chronically short of workers, especially in specific areas. Brexit has just made it that bit worse. I am gratified to read so much about how important it is to pay fair wages to people driving trucks etc. It’s almost like no one had noticed before that the Tories had designed and implemented a low-wage economy. The fact that we are short of doctors, nurses, truck driver, etc can only be the fault of those that have been in power for the past ten years. A lack of investment in training people in the UK to do the jobs that are required and will be required is a failure of government. Investment in education is an investment in everybody’s future. You obviously didn't read the Brexit thread when it was alive. Many of us argued that freedom of movement was keeping wages low which suited the Tories and for some reason I still cannot fathom the Labour party liked it as well. Before Corbyn became leader he was a leaver as he understood this and as a good socialist he wanted better wages. I may be a Tory but I have stacked shelves not that long ago and I do believe in the phrase the unacceptable face of capitalism . One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 27 Sep 21 11.17am

Originally posted by kuge

Yes, it is very likely that we would have had a labour shortage if we had remained. The UK is chronically short of workers, especially in specific areas. Brexit has just made it that bit worse.

I am gratified to read so much about how important it is to pay fair wages to people driving trucks etc. It’s almost like no one had noticed before that the Tories had designed and implemented a low-wage economy.

The fact that we are short of doctors, nurses, truck driver, etc can only be the fault of those that have been in power for the past ten years. A lack of investment in training people in the UK to do the jobs that are required and will be required is a failure of government. Investment in education is an investment in everybody’s future.

You obviously didn't read the Brexit thread when it was alive.

Many of us argued that freedom of movement was keeping wages low which suited the Tories and for some reason I still cannot fathom the Labour party liked it as well.

Before Corbyn became leader he was a leaver as he understood this and as a good socialist he wanted better wages.

I may be a Tory but I have stacked shelves not that long ago and I do believe in the phrase the unacceptable face of capitalism .

One more point

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Orange1290 27 Sep 21 12.32pm
"Marco Digioia, general secretary of the European Road Haulers Association, said: “I expect many drivers will not return to the UK even if the UK Government allows them to. While offering visas to drivers on the continent would be a welcome step, there are many other issues, such as working conditions, pay, and the costs of getting into and working in the UK.” "Mr Digioia added that “it is not surprising” that the UK is suffering driver shortages.There are two reasons,” he said. “Number one is Brexit, and number two is Covid. [Link] Edited by Orange1290 (27 Sep 2021 12.34pm) Pro China, EU & Palestine
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Orange1290

27 Sep 21 12.32pm

"Marco Digioia, general secretary of the European Road Haulers Association, said: “I expect many drivers will not return to the UK even if the UK Government allows them to. While offering visas to drivers on the continent would be a welcome step, there are many other issues, such as working conditions, pay, and the costs of getting into and working in the UK.”

"Mr Digioia added that “it is not surprising” that the UK is suffering driver shortages.There are two reasons,” he said. “Number one is Brexit, and number two is Covid.

[Link]

Edited by Orange1290 (27 Sep 2021 12.34pm)

Pro China, EU & Palestine

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Teddy Eagle 27 Sep 21 12.47pm
Originally posted by Orange1290 "Marco Digioia, general secretary of the European Road Haulers Association, said: “I expect many drivers will not return to the UK even if the UK Government allows them to. While offering visas to drivers on the continent would be a welcome step, there are many other issues, such as working conditions, pay, and the costs of getting into and working in the UK.” "Mr Digioia added that “it is not surprising” that the UK is suffering driver shortages.There are two reasons,” he said. “Number one is Brexit, and number two is Covid. [Link] Edited by Orange1290 (27 Sep 2021 12.34pm) [Link]
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Teddy Eagle

27 Sep 21 12.47pm

Originally posted by Orange1290

"Mr Digioia added that “it is not surprising” that the UK is suffering driver shortages.There are two reasons,” he said. “Number one is Brexit, and number two is Covid.

[Link]

Edited by Orange1290 (27 Sep 2021 12.34pm)

[Link]

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Orange1290 27 Sep 21 1.12pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle [Link] No other country has forced 25,000 HGV drivers to leave their country and go back to another country, only the UK has done that and that is primarily caused by 'brexit'. That's an extra 25,000 more for EU countries, in effect making it a 50,000 deficit. Additionally, with freedom of movement across the 27 nation bloc, resources can and will move where they are needed most. None of the EU 27 have massive queues at gas stations, none have supermarkets and retailers with empty shelves, none are having to issue 'visas' to get drivers and none has had to stoop so low in desperation as to call the army i. To keep their countries going. Nice try but epic fail. Pro China, EU & Palestine
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Orange1290

27 Sep 21 1.12pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

[Link]

No other country has forced 25,000 HGV drivers to leave their country and go back to another country, only the UK has done that and that is primarily caused by 'brexit'. That's an extra 25,000 more for EU countries, in effect making it a 50,000 deficit. Additionally, with freedom of movement across the 27 nation bloc, resources can and will move where they are needed most. None of the EU 27 have massive queues at gas stations, none have supermarkets and retailers with empty shelves, none are having to issue 'visas' to get drivers and none has had to stoop so low in desperation as to call the army i. To keep their countries going.

Nice try but epic fail.

Pro China, EU & Palestine

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Teddy Eagle 27 Sep 21 1.21pm
Originally posted by Orange1290 No other country has forced 25,000 HGV drivers to leave their country and go back to another country, only the UK has done that and that is primarily caused by 'brexit'. That's an extra 25,000 more for EU countries, in effect making it a 50,000 deficit. Additionally, with freedom of movement across the 27 nation bloc, resources can and will move where they are needed most. None of the EU 27 have massive queues at gas stations, none have supermarkets and retailers with empty shelves, none are having to issue 'visas' to get drivers and none has had to stoop so low in desperation as to call the army i. To keep their countries going. Nice try but epic fail. [Link]
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Teddy Eagle

27 Sep 21 1.21pm

Originally posted by Orange1290

Nice try but epic fail.

[Link]

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