Just a bit of perspective.... Please?

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Just a bit of perspective.... Please?

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southnorwoodhill 30 Nov 20 11.04am
Originally posted by orpingtoneagle To return to the issue at hand. My concern is not with the start we have had - although our inability to put the ball in the net is a concern, but we have now been in the Premier League for a good few years and seem to struggle to push on. We don't seem to have established ourselves. We still go from the brilliant to the woeful with little in between and maybe just a season or two of mid table security would be boring but nice? I get the dull football to grind out a result but we will never win a game as long as its Crystal Palace 0. Maybe we need a seperate coach for the forwards? Not really. We need a holistic view to tactical gameplay, a balance between attack and defence, game management during the ebb and flow of the game. One very obvious example is the over reliance on Zaha, rather then spreading the load in what is a team game. Over over-emphasis on defence means the game is played more in our half, as statistically the opposition have more of the ball. This limits the time when we create genuine goal scoring opportunities.
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southnorwoodhill

30 Nov 20 11.04am

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Originally posted by orpingtoneagle

To return to the issue at hand. My concern is not with the start we have had - although our inability to put the ball in the net is a concern, but we have now been in the Premier League for a good few years and seem to struggle to push on. We don't seem to have established ourselves. We still go from the brilliant to the woeful with little in between and maybe just a season or two of mid table security would be boring but nice?

I get the dull football to grind out a result but we will never win a game as long as its Crystal Palace 0.

Maybe we need a seperate coach for the forwards?

Not really. We need a holistic view to tactical gameplay, a balance between attack and defence, game management during the ebb and flow of the game.
One very obvious example is the over reliance on Zaha, rather then spreading the load in what is a team game. Over over-emphasis on defence means the game is played more in our half, as statistically the opposition have more of the ball. This limits the time when we create genuine goal scoring opportunities.

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Eaglecoops CR3 30 Nov 20 11.05am
And Guntrisoft, I ain’t going to be told by someone that lives in the least populated area of the country that I’m arrogant for living where I do and doing what I think is right without responding. There are a few on here think they have the moral high ground however they also think they can use this to abuse anyone on here.
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Eaglecoops

CR3 30 Nov 20 11.05am

And Guntrisoft, I ain’t going to be told by someone that lives in the least populated area of the country that I’m arrogant for living where I do and doing what I think is right without responding. There are a few on here think they have the moral high ground however they also think they can use this to abuse anyone on here.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 30 Nov 20 11.18am
Originally posted by the silurian you can refer me to these I presume??? I could, if I had several days to scroll back through the political threads of a year or more ago, but I neither have the time or inclination. This thread is about getting some perspective on the current situation with our team, which is something I fully support. Perspective requires you to stand back and see the wider picture, which is precisely what I did. It wasn't me who diverted it but I support the efforts to bring it back on track, although I am not sure I have much to add. As a club we need to take the long view and Roy is doing a fine job in playing his part. In years to come we will look back and appreciate just how important these years have been. Change will come and because of his age probably a year or two before the optimum moment. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 30 Nov 20 11.18am

Originally posted by the silurian

you can refer me to these I presume???

I could, if I had several days to scroll back through the political threads of a year or more ago, but I neither have the time or inclination.

This thread is about getting some perspective on the current situation with our team, which is something I fully support. Perspective requires you to stand back and see the wider picture, which is precisely what I did.

It wasn't me who diverted it but I support the efforts to bring it back on track, although I am not sure I have much to add.

As a club we need to take the long view and Roy is doing a fine job in playing his part. In years to come we will look back and appreciate just how important these years have been. Change will come and because of his age probably a year or two before the optimum moment.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 30 Nov 20 12.06pm
Originally posted by babylonjohn Did you not notice that Zaha didnt play in either game. I read a post in the last week that what’s going wrong g is we’re trying to play Zaha and Eze in the same team. I’m just reading g posts at the moment as I’m not watching all the games or switching off if I am watching. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 30 Nov 20 12.06pm

Originally posted by babylonjohn

Did you not notice that Zaha didnt play in either game.

I read a post in the last week that what’s going wrong g is we’re trying to play Zaha and Eze in the same team. I’m just reading g posts at the moment as I’m not watching all the games or switching off if I am watching.

COYP

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 30 Nov 20 12.13pm
Originally posted by southnorwoodhill Not really. We need a holistic view to tactical gameplay, a balance between attack and defence, game management during the ebb and flow of the game. One very obvious example is the over reliance on Zaha, rather then spreading the load in what is a team game. Over over-emphasis on defence means the game is played more in our half, as statistically the opposition have more of the ball. This limits the time when we create genuine goal scoring opportunities. Some very interesting points. I've noticed we often drop too deep, particularly when defending a lead. We should strike more of a balance and go for two when we score one. The difficulty of how deep we are makes the opposition look great as they have loads of space to run onto us. I was thinking we need an attacking unit of perhaps Zaha, Eze and Ayew who stick together up front and always press. If they have to track back as much as they do it's no real surprise that we can't score. The obvious times are when there is no one in the area. At least two people should be up front at all times. Otherwise opposition defenders can take their time and pick a pass, whilst midfielders and strikers can run to the edge of our area and then shoot. Think how many times we see this - several times a game. We haven't learnt anything, we haven't grown or evolved. We are the living definition of a team that stood still. Trouble is the rest of the world is moving on. Edited by ASCPFC (30 Nov 2020 12.14pm) Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 30 Nov 20 12.13pm

Originally posted by southnorwoodhill

Some very interesting points. I've noticed we often drop too deep, particularly when defending a lead. We should strike more of a balance and go for two when we score one. The difficulty of how deep we are makes the opposition look great as they have loads of space to run onto us. I was thinking we need an attacking unit of perhaps Zaha, Eze and Ayew who stick together up front and always press. If they have to track back as much as they do it's no real surprise that we can't score. The obvious times are when there is no one in the area. At least two people should be up front at all times. Otherwise opposition defenders can take their time and pick a pass, whilst midfielders and strikers can run to the edge of our area and then shoot. Think how many times we see this - several times a game. We haven't learnt anything, we haven't grown or evolved. We are the living definition of a team that stood still. Trouble is the rest of the world is moving on.

Edited by ASCPFC (30 Nov 2020 12.14pm)

Red and Blue Army!

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 30 Nov 20 12.21pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle You are seeing abuse where none exists. Of course you are entitled to your opinion, just as I am to mine that simple solutions don't exist and that those who expect instant answers are glory hunters. If that's the way you come over to me then, that's the way you come over to me. Dear me. Is there a Latin motto for ‘accept and shut up’? COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 30 Nov 20 12.21pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You are seeing abuse where none exists. Of course you are entitled to your opinion, just as I am to mine that simple solutions don't exist and that those who expect instant answers are glory hunters. If that's the way you come over to me then, that's the way you come over to me.

Dear me.

Is there a Latin motto for ‘accept and shut up’?

COYP

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 30 Nov 20 12.24pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC Some very interesting points. I've noticed we often drop too deep, particularly when defending a lead. We should strike more of a balance and go for two when we score one. The difficulty of how deep we are makes the opposition look great as they have loads of space to run onto us. I was thinking we need an attacking unit of perhaps Zaha, Eze and Ayew who stick together up front and always press. If they have to track back as much as they do it's no real surprise that we can't score. The obvious times are when there is no one in the area. At least two people should be up front at all times. Otherwise opposition defenders can take their time and pick a pass, whilst midfielders and strikers can run to the edge of our area and then shoot. Think how many times we see this - several times a game. We haven't learnt anything, we haven't grown or evolved. We are the living definition of a team that stood still. Trouble is the rest of the world is moving on. Edited by ASCPFC (30 Nov 2020 12.14pm) We generally defend deep as we simply do not have the pace in defence. I refer back to my previous comments apropos the age of the squad, with 15 players either 30 next year or in their 30s. In general we don't possess the pace or mobility to play football on the front-foot 'Pressing' teams as others do, so Hodgson has to devise a system with all these contraints. Most of our players are in the 'Twilight' of their careers and whilst outsiders might highlight certain 'Name' players, I suspect many of our supporters know they are not the players they were and have been on the wane for some time.This is the harsh reality of our situation.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 30 Nov 20 12.24pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Some very interesting points. I've noticed we often drop too deep, particularly when defending a lead. We should strike more of a balance and go for two when we score one. The difficulty of how deep we are makes the opposition look great as they have loads of space to run onto us. I was thinking we need an attacking unit of perhaps Zaha, Eze and Ayew who stick together up front and always press. If they have to track back as much as they do it's no real surprise that we can't score. The obvious times are when there is no one in the area. At least two people should be up front at all times. Otherwise opposition defenders can take their time and pick a pass, whilst midfielders and strikers can run to the edge of our area and then shoot. Think how many times we see this - several times a game. We haven't learnt anything, we haven't grown or evolved. We are the living definition of a team that stood still. Trouble is the rest of the world is moving on.

Edited by ASCPFC (30 Nov 2020 12.14pm)

We generally defend deep as we simply do not have the pace in defence.

I refer back to my previous comments apropos the age of the squad, with 15 players either 30 next year or in their 30s.
In general we don't possess the pace or mobility to play football on the front-foot 'Pressing' teams as others do, so Hodgson has to devise a system with all these contraints.

Most of our players are in the 'Twilight' of their careers and whilst outsiders might highlight certain 'Name' players, I suspect many of our supporters know they are not the players they were and have been on the wane for some time.This is the harsh reality of our situation.

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southnorwoodhill 30 Nov 20 12.34pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC Some very interesting points. I've noticed we often drop too deep, particularly when defending a lead. We should strike more of a balance and go for two when we score one. The difficulty of how deep we are makes the opposition look great as they have loads of space to run onto us. I was thinking we need an attacking unit of perhaps Zaha, Eze and Ayew who stick together up front and always press. If they have to track back as much as they do it's no real surprise that we can't score. The obvious times are when there is no one in the area. At least two people should be up front at all times. Otherwise opposition defenders can take their time and pick a pass, whilst midfielders and strikers can run to the edge of our area and then shoot. Think how many times we see this - several times a game. We haven't learnt anything, we haven't grown or evolved. We are the living definition of a team that stood still. Trouble is the rest of the world is moving on. Edited by ASCPFC (30 Nov 2020 12.14pm) I'm in total agreement. IMO the reason we sit so deep, apart from this being Hodgson's preferred tactical game plan, is the fact that our centre backs are ageing and really slow and have to sit deep because they can't recover against a quick striker. This has an effect throughout the side whereby our forwards are further away, and so we decide to convince ourselves that we are a counter attacking side due to circumstance, as we let the opposition have the ball, creating pressure on ourselves. Just to add I don't see the level of physical exertion required at this level, particularly by players who should be playing for renewed contracts. That said, on recent performances it would appear that a few of them are in the twilight of their Premiership careers and the Championship beckons. Edited by southnorwoodhill (30 Nov 2020 1.32pm)
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southnorwoodhill

30 Nov 20 12.34pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Edited by ASCPFC (30 Nov 2020 12.14pm)

I'm in total agreement. IMO the reason we sit so deep, apart from this being Hodgson's preferred tactical game plan, is the fact that our centre backs are ageing and really slow and have to sit deep because they can't recover against a quick striker. This has an effect throughout the side whereby our forwards are further away, and so we decide to convince ourselves that we are a counter attacking side due to circumstance, as we let the opposition have the ball, creating pressure on ourselves. Just to add I don't see the level of physical exertion required at this level, particularly by players who should be playing for renewed contracts. That said, on recent performances it would appear that a few of them are in the twilight of their Premiership careers and the Championship beckons.

Edited by southnorwoodhill (30 Nov 2020 1.32pm)

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Eaglecoops CR3 30 Nov 20 12.37pm
Originally posted by Willo We generally defend deep as we simply do not have the pace in defence. I refer back to my previous comments apropos the age of the squad, with 15 players either 30 next year or in their 30s. In general we don't possess the pace or mobility to play football on the front-foot 'Pressing' teams as others do, so Hodgson has to devise a system with all these contraints. Most of our players are in the 'Twilight' of their careers and whilst outsiders might highlight certain 'Name' players, I suspect many of our supporters know they are not the players they were and have been on the wane for some time.This is the harsh reality of our situation. We have plenty of youngsters in the U23s, Banks, Dreher, Kirby, who can run around all day. We have Mitchell, Zaha, Schlupp and Eze and PVA is also quick. Clyne is not slow either, nor Ayew! I think it’s more the point that Roy doesn’t want to play that way. He is happy to play narrow and deep and then utilise the pace we have on the break. I don’t see why the older midfielders can’t run their socks off for 45 minutes and then get substituted at HT. it’s not like we don’t have enough defensive midfielders to choose from. Start with Milivojevic and McArthur, finish with Riedewald and MacCarthy or Kouyate.
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Eaglecoops

CR3 30 Nov 20 12.37pm

Originally posted by Willo

We generally defend deep as we simply do not have the pace in defence.

We have plenty of youngsters in the U23s, Banks, Dreher, Kirby, who can run around all day. We have Mitchell, Zaha, Schlupp and Eze and PVA is also quick. Clyne is not slow either, nor Ayew!

I think it’s more the point that Roy doesn’t want to play that way. He is happy to play narrow and deep and then utilise the pace we have on the break. I don’t see why the older midfielders can’t run their socks off for 45 minutes and then get substituted at HT. it’s not like we don’t have enough defensive midfielders to choose from. Start with Milivojevic and McArthur, finish with Riedewald and MacCarthy or Kouyate.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 30 Nov 20 12.40pm
Originally posted by Willo We generally defend deep as we simply do not have the pace in defence. I refer back to my previous comments apropos the age of the squad, with 15 players either 30 next year or in their 30s. In general we don't possess the pace or mobility to play football on the front-foot 'Pressing' teams as others do, so Hodgson has to devise a system with all these contraints. Most of our players are in the 'Twilight' of their careers and whilst outsiders might highlight certain 'Name' players, I suspect many of our supporters know they are not the players they were and have been on the wane for some time.This is the harsh reality of our situation. I agree with this to a point, and I think it’s been a bit more obvious this season. The issue is when you look at the set up and players on the bench vs those on the pitch. Some there’s no logical explanation for. One thing I’d agree with you know who is Eze is the only thing worth watching right now. It feels like there’s no point bothering apart from that, which is easy to say if you’re not going or watching from a remote place in England or a croydon postcode I’ve found. Why we’ve never really played 4-2-3-1 is a mystery. The same thing over and over is just not worth the time atm. Edited by Rudi Hedman (30 Nov 2020 12.50pm) COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 30 Nov 20 12.40pm

Originally posted by Willo

We generally defend deep as we simply do not have the pace in defence.

I agree with this to a point, and I think it’s been a bit more obvious this season. The issue is when you look at the set up and players on the bench vs those on the pitch. Some there’s no logical explanation for.

One thing I’d agree with you know who is Eze is the only thing worth watching right now. It feels like there’s no point bothering apart from that, which is easy to say if you’re not going or watching from a remote place in England or a croydon postcode I’ve found.

Why we’ve never really played 4-2-3-1 is a mystery. The same thing over and over is just not worth the time atm.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (30 Nov 2020 12.50pm)

COYP

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 30 Nov 20 1.04pm
Originally posted by Eaglecoops We have plenty of youngsters in the U23s, Banks, Dreher, Kirby, who can run around all day. We have Mitchell, Zaha, Schlupp and Eze and PVA is also quick. Clyne is not slow either, nor Ayew! I think it’s more the point that Roy doesn’t want to play that way. He is happy to play narrow and deep and then utilise the pace we have on the break. I don’t see why the older midfielders can’t run their socks off for 45 minutes and then get substituted at HT. it’s not like we don’t have enough defensive midfielders to choose from. Start with Milivojevic and McArthur, finish with Riedewald and MacCarthy or Kouyate. Clyne appears to have lost pace,perhaps understandably due to the advancement of years and his injuries.I would not assert that Ayew is particularly fleet of foot but wouldn't file him under "Lacks pace". I consider our defenders, Ward,Clyne,Cahill,Dann,Tomkins,Sakho all of whom are no longer the quickest. The midfielders, Milivojevic,McArthur,McCarthy,Kouyate,are hardly players known for their pace nor creativity. Out wide, I believe Townsend is not as quick as he was. A dearth of pace and creativity in key areas and of course we have Benteke and Wickham in our squad as strikers.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 30 Nov 20 1.04pm

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

We have plenty of youngsters in the U23s, Banks, Dreher, Kirby, who can run around all day. We have Mitchell, Zaha, Schlupp and Eze and PVA is also quick. Clyne is not slow either, nor Ayew!

Clyne appears to have lost pace,perhaps understandably due to the advancement of years and his injuries.I would not assert that Ayew is particularly fleet of foot but wouldn't file him under "Lacks pace".

I consider our defenders, Ward,Clyne,Cahill,Dann,Tomkins,Sakho all of whom are no longer the quickest.
The midfielders, Milivojevic,McArthur,McCarthy,Kouyate,are hardly players known for their pace nor creativity.
Out wide, I believe Townsend is not as quick as he was.
A dearth of pace and creativity in key areas and of course we have Benteke and Wickham in our squad as strikers.

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southnorwoodhill 30 Nov 20 1.13pm
Originally posted by Willo Clyne appears to have lost pace,perhaps understandably due to the advancement of years and his injuries.I would not assert that Ayew is particularly fleet of foot but wouldn't file him under "Lacks pace". I consider our defenders, Ward,Clyne,Cahill,Dann,Tomkins,Sakho all of whom are no longer the quickest. The midfielders, Milivojevic,McArthur,McCarthy,Kouyate,are hardly players known for their pace nor creativity. Out wide, I believe Townsend is not as quick as he was. A dearth of pace and creativity in key areas and of course we have Benteke and Wickham in our squad as strikers. The team unsurprisingly reflects the attributes of the manager: dull, uninspiring, and predictable. Edited by southnorwoodhill (30 Nov 2020 1.29pm)
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southnorwoodhill

30 Nov 20 1.13pm

Originally posted by Willo

The team unsurprisingly reflects the attributes of the manager: dull, uninspiring, and predictable.

Edited by southnorwoodhill (30 Nov 2020 1.29pm)

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