Why aren't we an established Premier League club

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Why aren't we an established Premier League club

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roman eagle South London 12 Aug 20 11.15am
To address the original question - it depends what you mean by 'established'. I'm assuming that the OP doesn't think we are 'established' and many others seem to agree, largely based on the money we don't spend in the transfer market. To get a bit of historical perspective I thought I'd throw a few facts into the arena. Palace are the 10th longest surviving member of the top division, last playing in the second tier in 2013. Here's a list of the clubs which have been there longer with the year they last played in the second tier: Arsenal 1915 Everton 1954 Liverpool 1962 Man U 1975 Spurs 1978 Chelsea 1989 Man City 2002 West Ham 2012 Southampton2012 So in terms of establishment, we're not doing too badly but it's pretty obvious that apart from the big 6 plus Everton there's quite a lot of churn. Basically you need quite a lot of money to guarantee staying in the top division - well beyond anything we are likely to have. So the reality is any match against a team outside those 7 is a relegation 6-pointer - enjoy the ride folks! Audentis fortuna iuvat (Virgil, 19BC)
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roman eagle

South London 12 Aug 20 11.15am

To address the original question - it depends what you mean by 'established'. I'm assuming that the OP doesn't think we are 'established' and many others seem to agree, largely based on the money we don't spend in the transfer market.

To get a bit of historical perspective I thought I'd throw a few facts into the arena. Palace are the 10th longest surviving member of the top division, last playing in the second tier in 2013. Here's a list of the clubs which have been there longer with the year they last played in the second tier:

Arsenal 1915
Everton 1954
Liverpool 1962
Man U 1975
Spurs 1978
Chelsea 1989
Man City 2002
West Ham 2012
Southampton2012

So in terms of establishment, we're not doing too badly but it's pretty obvious that apart from the big 6 plus Everton there's quite a lot of churn. Basically you need quite a lot of money to guarantee staying in the top division - well beyond anything we are likely to have. So the reality is any match against a team outside those 7 is a relegation 6-pointer - enjoy the ride folks!

Audentis fortuna iuvat (Virgil, 19BC)

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Eaglecoops CR3 12 Aug 20 7.15pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly Palace are more established in the PL, than , let's say Charlton, Blackburn (ex-champs), or numerous other clubs that have risen, then fallen. It's like getting a sniff of fanny that gives you a boner. Keep your expectations reasonable. Now there is an analogy that I can work with!
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Eaglecoops

CR3 12 Aug 20 7.15pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

Palace are more established in the PL, than , let's say Charlton, Blackburn (ex-champs), or numerous other clubs that have risen, then fallen.
It's like getting a sniff of fanny that gives you a boner. Keep your expectations reasonable.

Now there is an analogy that I can work with!

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PalazioVecchio south pole 13 Aug 20 11.18am
There are only about 5 'established premier league clubs' in existence. All are financial giants. To answer the question of the op. I would add that there are some very big clubs down in the championship , so when we finish a prem season on 43 points this eagle is glad all over. Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 13 Aug 20 11.18am

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There are only about 5 'established premier league clubs' in existence. All are financial giants.

To answer the question of the op.

I would add that there are some very big clubs down in the championship , so when we finish a prem season on 43 points this eagle is glad all over.

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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ex hibitionist Hastings 13 Aug 20 12.03pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly Palace are more established in the PL, than , let's say Charlton, Blackburn (ex-champs), or numerous other clubs that have risen, then fallen. It's like getting a sniff of fanny that gives you a boner. Keep your expectations reasonable. i'm hoping the new stand will upgrade us from mere 'sniffers' to 'lickers' (silverware, europe), as far as top four goes we'll always be virgins or w*nkers so to speak, but you never know we might do a big premmy jac like Leicester did
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ex hibitionist

Hastings 13 Aug 20 12.03pm

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Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

i'm hoping the new stand will upgrade us from mere 'sniffers' to 'lickers' (silverware, europe), as far as top four goes we'll always be virgins or w*nkers so to speak, but you never know we might do a big premmy jac like Leicester did

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Terry Ven 14 Aug 20 11.42am
Originally posted by Uphill 1. Ground and facilities - agreed Selhurst is officially a dump 2. A manager past his prime - I love Roy but what about the future? 3. (at the moment) unattractive playing style - agreed, I'm not enjoying it 4. Conservative owner who occasionally loses it (Benteke, Sakho) - agreed 5. Most southerly of the 12 London teams - I don't get that; we have a huge catchment area 6. Not that easy to get to - I don't agree; how many clubs can say they have 3 stations with 15 mins walk? 7. 'As long as we stay up' attitude. - agreed, our Prem squads have only been just about good enough. Until we have a proper stadium and training facilities we will always have a small club mentality.
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Terry Ven

14 Aug 20 11.42am

Originally posted by Uphill

1. Ground and facilities - agreed Selhurst is officially a dump
2. A manager past his prime - I love Roy but what about the future?
3. (at the moment) unattractive playing style - agreed, I'm not enjoying it
4. Conservative owner who occasionally loses it (Benteke, Sakho) - agreed
5. Most southerly of the 12 London teams - I don't get that; we have a huge catchment area
6. Not that easy to get to - I don't agree; how many clubs can say they have 3 stations with 15 mins walk?
7. 'As long as we stay up' attitude.

- agreed, our Prem squads have only been just about good enough.

Until we have a proper stadium and training facilities we will always have a small club mentality.

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Crystal_Clear Belfast 14 Aug 20 12.31pm
I agree that only the normal top 6 plus Everton, can only really be classed as established (though Everton almost came undone in the 90s). Yes, the others can come and go but the problem is leaving the PL. You have no idea when will be back. You could be back within a season or two (ie. Fulham and West Brom). But you could easily descend the leagues like Blackburn, Leeds, Portsmouth etc. Leeds have only just got back after something like 18 years. If Palace were to get relegated, I would not expect them back in the PL anytime soon. Infact, I would be more worried of cascading down the divisions.
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Crystal_Clear

Belfast 14 Aug 20 12.31pm

I agree that only the normal top 6 plus Everton, can only really be classed as established (though Everton almost came undone in the 90s).

Yes, the others can come and go but the problem is leaving the PL. You have no idea when will be back. You could be back within a season or two (ie. Fulham and West Brom). But you could easily descend the leagues like Blackburn, Leeds, Portsmouth etc.

Leeds have only just got back after something like 18 years.

If Palace were to get relegated, I would not expect them back in the PL anytime soon. Infact, I would be more worried of cascading down the divisions.

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Dancer Cat Farnborough 15 Aug 20 8.23am
Originally posted by ex hibitionist i'm hoping the new stand will upgrade us from mere 'sniffers' to 'lickers' (silverware, europe), as far as top four goes we'll always be virgins or w*nkers so to speak, but you never know we might do a big premmy jac like Leicester did This made me LOL
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Dancer Cat

Farnborough 15 Aug 20 8.23am

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

i'm hoping the new stand will upgrade us from mere 'sniffers' to 'lickers' (silverware, europe), as far as top four goes we'll always be virgins or w*nkers so to speak, but you never know we might do a big premmy jac like Leicester did

This made me LOL

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HKOwen Hong Kong 17 Aug 20 4.03am
Competence Originally posted by EddieMac Lots of crying about about players getting paid too much then crying when paying too much then for Benteke and Sakho and others then the same people crying because we try to get a bargain and don’t pay over the odds. Make your minds up. What do you lot want? Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 17 Aug 20 4.03am

Competence

Originally posted by EddieMac

Lots of crying about about players getting paid too much then crying when paying too much then for Benteke and Sakho and others then the same people crying because we try to get a bargain and don’t pay over the odds.

Make your minds up. What do you lot want?

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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HKOwen Hong Kong 17 Aug 20 4.07am
Please name the young talent that has been brought in by DoF at bargain basement prices. I can't recall any Ferguson was a free Originally posted by jeeagles Everyone supporting Roy is judging him on his past performance (at Palace - not anywhere else) and saying we can keep him. Finding a decent chairman is harder than finding a decent striker or manager. It's easy for fans to critise by just saying that Parish should spend more money. It's much easier spend other peoples money that your own. They should be judged over a number of years, not just one or two seasons. He's taken the club from around 40th ish in the country to 15th ish, consistently with a small ground and low revenue. Burnley are the only club in with less rescources than us that consistently finish higher. He's made mistakes, and generally come clean about them, taking on accountability. Hodgson always seems to have an excuse. We went up with Cardiff, Hull, and Watford. Their chairmen all threw money at the club and look were they are now. Over a 10 year period we have consistently been run more efficiently and sustainably than pretty much any club of our size. Throw Brighton, QPR, Fulham, Newcastle, Leeds etc into the same mix, more backing, less success. Meanwhile, we now have CAT 1 academy and a DoF who seems to be bringing in young tallent for the future at bargin basement prices games. Some more food for thought, with 1 point and 3 goals in 8 games, any other manager would have been sacked. Parish seems to be sticking with him, yet the people who support Hodgson are blaming Parish for everything. Without a patient chairman who puts the long term future of the club above anything, Hodgeson wouldn't be here. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 17 Aug 20 4.07am

Please name the young talent that has been brought in by DoF at bargain basement prices.

I can't recall any

Ferguson was a free

Originally posted by jeeagles

Everyone supporting Roy is judging him on his past performance (at Palace - not anywhere else) and saying we can keep him.

Finding a decent chairman is harder than finding a decent striker or manager. It's easy for fans to critise by just saying that Parish should spend more money. It's much easier spend other peoples money that your own. They should be judged over a number of years, not just one or two seasons.

He's taken the club from around 40th ish in the country to 15th ish, consistently with a small ground and low revenue. Burnley are the only club in with less rescources than us that consistently finish higher.

He's made mistakes, and generally come clean about them, taking on accountability. Hodgson always seems to have an excuse.

We went up with Cardiff, Hull, and Watford. Their chairmen all threw money at the club and look were they are now. Over a 10 year period we have consistently been run more efficiently and sustainably than pretty much any club of our size. Throw Brighton, QPR, Fulham, Newcastle, Leeds etc into the same mix, more backing, less success.

Meanwhile, we now have CAT 1 academy and a DoF who seems to be bringing in young tallent for the future at bargin basement prices games.

Some more food for thought, with 1 point and 3 goals in 8 games, any other manager would have been sacked. Parish seems to be sticking with him, yet the people who support Hodgson are blaming Parish for everything. Without a patient chairman who puts the long term future of the club above anything, Hodgeson wouldn't be here.

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Terry Ven 21 Aug 20 11.46am
In many ways this makes me feel worse; 10th most established top league club but we've won sweet FA! Originally posted by roman eagle To address the original question - it depends what you mean by 'established'. I'm assuming that the OP doesn't think we are 'established' and many others seem to agree, largely based on the money we don't spend in the transfer market. To get a bit of historical perspective I thought I'd throw a few facts into the arena. Palace are the 10th longest surviving member of the top division, last playing in the second tier in 2013. Here's a list of the clubs which have been there longer with the year they last played in the second tier: Arsenal 1915 Everton 1954 Liverpool 1962 Man U 1975 Spurs 1978 Chelsea 1989 Man City 2002 West Ham 2012 Southampton2012 So in terms of establishment, we're not doing too badly but it's pretty obvious that apart from the big 6 plus Everton there's quite a lot of churn. Basically you need quite a lot of money to guarantee staying in the top division - well beyond anything we are likely to have. So the reality is any match against a team outside those 7 is a relegation 6-pointer - enjoy the ride folks!
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Terry Ven

21 Aug 20 11.46am

In many ways this makes me feel worse; 10th most established top league club but we've won sweet FA!

Originally posted by roman eagle

Arsenal 1915
Everton 1954
Liverpool 1962
Man U 1975
Spurs 1978
Chelsea 1989
Man City 2002
West Ham 2012
Southampton2012

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est1905 22 Aug 20 4.28pm
I think we were a very well run Championship club that had a competitive first eleven a not much on the bench. We have never really transitioned into a Premiership club that has to have a very competitive SQUAD. Now people can accuse Freedman of being s*** at his job, of Parish being a penny pincher, of Roy being too weak to stand up to them both and demand more money, or you could assume that because our stadium is not Premiership standard incoming players tend to choose West Ham, Brighton, Southampton, etc when the wages on offer are relative. All of these reasons could be factors and probably are. This window though for me is a vital one. With an ageing squad, Zaha either gone mentally or physically as well, Our run in in May. If we dont invest in at least 4 quality players (one of which MUST be a striker that knows where the back of the net is) I truly believe this will be the year we go.
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est1905

22 Aug 20 4.28pm

I think we were a very well run Championship club that had a competitive first eleven a not much on the bench.
We have never really transitioned into a Premiership club that has to have a very competitive SQUAD.
Now people can accuse Freedman of being s*** at his job, of Parish being a penny pincher, of Roy being too weak to stand up to them both and demand more money, or you could assume that because our stadium is not Premiership standard incoming players tend to choose West Ham, Brighton, Southampton, etc when the wages on offer are relative. All of these reasons could be factors and probably are.
This window though for me is a vital one. With an ageing squad, Zaha either gone mentally or physically as well, Our run in in May. If we dont invest in at least 4 quality players (one of which MUST be a striker that knows where the back of the net is) I truly believe this will be the year we go.

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est1905 22 Aug 20 4.31pm
Originally posted by roman eagle To address the original question - it depends what you mean by 'established'. I'm assuming that the OP doesn't think we are 'established' and many others seem to agree, largely based on the money we don't spend in the transfer market. To get a bit of historical perspective I thought I'd throw a few facts into the arena. Palace are the 10th longest surviving member of the top division, last playing in the second tier in 2013. Here's a list of the clubs which have been there longer with the year they last played in the second tier: Arsenal 1915 Everton 1954 Liverpool 1962 Man U 1975 Spurs 1978 Chelsea 1989 Man City 2002 West Ham 2012 Southampton2012 So in terms of establishment, we're not doing too badly but it's pretty obvious that apart from the big 6 plus Everton there's quite a lot of churn. Basically you need quite a lot of money to guarantee staying in the top division - well beyond anything we are likely to have. So the reality is any match against a team outside those 7 is a relegation 6-pointer - enjoy the ride folks! Its worth also pointing out that Southampton and Man City are technically below us as they have occupied the third tier of English football far more recently than Palace
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est1905

22 Aug 20 4.31pm

Originally posted by roman eagle

Arsenal 1915
Everton 1954
Liverpool 1962
Man U 1975
Spurs 1978
Chelsea 1989
Man City 2002
West Ham 2012
Southampton2012

Its worth also pointing out that Southampton and Man City are technically below us as they have occupied the third tier of English football far more recently than Palace

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