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Thegamesafoot Somewhere but Nowhere 28 Nov 16 2.53am | |
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Edited by Thegamesafoot (28 Nov 2016 2.58am)
It's good to keep an opened mind, but not so open that your brains fall out. |
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chris123 hove actually 28 Nov 16 5.29am | |
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Originally posted by legaleagle
Precisely.And a link from Fox News,the home of objectivity about Cuba. Let us see how many exiles decide to go back.
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matt_himself Matataland 28 Nov 16 6.59am | |
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All men are equal but some men are more equal than others... Viva le revolution!
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 28 Nov 16 9.53am | |
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Originally posted by NickinOX
So, you celebrated the death of Pinochet and Castro? Sure you did. Both were murdering b******s. One left a country that now has a somewhat functioning economy and democracy, the other left an economic basket case that is as oppressive as ever, but at least he managed to provide good healthcare to the elite and passed that off as progress. It's no wonder things are so screwed up, when seemingly intelligent people are so dogmatic. A plague on both their houses.
One overthrew a democratically elected government in a coup based on foreign powers political interests, and implemented a regime of terror and oppression, resulting in crimes against humanity being levelled against him. The other was Fidel Castro, who's small insurrection, turned into a full scale popular revolution against a corrupt regime, that served the interests of foreign interests over those of the people. Now I'm not going to say Castro is a hero, or should be held up as a shining icon - The repression and suppression of freedoms after the bay of pigs is however somewhat understandable - Plus many of those in the initial executions had committed serious crimes in trying to maintain the Bastista regime. There are many failings and crimes of the Castro regime that cannot be overlooked. Political repression, suppression of personal freedoms, that especially after the mid 80s and to more recent times were no longer really necessary for security. Of course we should also remember that from the 60s-80s the US government were actively trying to other throw the Cuban regime including the support of terrorists such as Carillies and Bosch (almost certainly guilty of involvement the bombing of Flight 455) - as well as providing CIA and state support for anti-Castro regime terrorism by Cuban exiles - Not to mention a number of failed assassination attempts.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 28 Nov 16 10.02am | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
I bet those who disagree with the celebrations in the US, celebrated when Thatcher died. I think people should feel honoured when people celebrate their deaths, it generally means you made a major difference. The Spanish and French declared a week of holiday and celebrations upon news of the death of Francis Walsingham. Possibly this is the greatest compliment to anyone, when your 'sworn enemies' celebrate your passing.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 28 Nov 16 10.12am | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
All men are equal but some men are more equal than others... Viva le revolution! One of my greatest criticisms as well, is that the leadership enjoyed so much greater privillage than that of the people (the mistress I don't care about, and the properties liberated after the revolution I don't care about either). Its worth remembering that a lot of the properties were liberated after the revolution, along with a lot of the state infrastructure, but the ownership of overseas properties etc is a failing, as is the deception of the people. Obviously there is a bias in the story - but there is also truth. Of course he lived a high life, but then also delivered great achievements to Cuba and its people, compared to the previous regime (who lead the high life and left the people starved, illiterate, uneducated and massively exploited in a US playground for the wealthy - and US organised crime). I think anyone who sees Castro as somekind of perfect icon of socialism or a hero of the people is as misguided as those who just see him as another murderous junta with a different colour flag. The utilisation of the Party as the new class structure represents the common failing seen in Socialist revolutions.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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matt_himself Matataland 28 Nov 16 12.22pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
One of my greatest criticisms as well, is that the leadership enjoyed so much greater privillage than that of the people (the mistress I don't care about, and the properties liberated after the revolution I don't care about either). Its worth remembering that a lot of the properties were liberated after the revolution, along with a lot of the state infrastructure, but the ownership of overseas properties etc is a failing, as is the deception of the people. Obviously there is a bias in the story - but there is also truth. Of course he lived a high life, but then also delivered great achievements to Cuba and its people, compared to the previous regime (who lead the high life and left the people starved, illiterate, uneducated and massively exploited in a US playground for the wealthy - and US organised crime). I think anyone who sees Castro as somekind of perfect icon of socialism or a hero of the people is as misguided as those who just see him as another murderous junta with a different colour flag. The utilisation of the Party as the new class structure represents the common failing seen in Socialist revolutions. From what I have read, he was a womanising, homophobe (for most of his life), who enjoyed the high life whilst suppressing his people and also oversaw the torturing, expelling or killing of those deemed as dissident or undesirable. Viva la revolution!
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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Hrolf The Ganger 28 Nov 16 12.34pm | |
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Castro was an enemy of the West and since I'm of the West, that's all I'm bothered about. To discuss his pros and cons is beside the point. I'm sure they were all a bundle of laughs at the weekend.
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matt_himself Matataland 28 Nov 16 12.39pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Castro was an enemy of the West and since I'm of the West, that's all I'm bothered about. To discuss his pros and cons is beside the point. I'm sure they were all a bundle of laughs at the weekend. If they are perceived to have improved health care or increase literacy rates in their countries, then using the lefties methodology, the odd purge, mass murder or twenty year spell of repression is totally OK.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 28 Nov 16 12.56pm | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
If they are perceived to have improved health care or increase literacy rates in their countries, then using the lefties methodology, the odd purge, mass murder or twenty year spell of repression is totally OK. No, but it doesn't exclude them either.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 28 Nov 16 12.59pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Castro was an enemy of the West and since I'm of the West, that's all I'm bothered about. To discuss his pros and cons is beside the point. I'm sure they were all a bundle of laughs at the weekend. Except that's not really true. Some of the West definitely, but a number of European countries have had relationships and trade with Cuba over the last 20 or 30 years. Its really only the US that held a tight, long grudge and influenced other nations to follow suit. Arguably it was the US that really forced Cuba into the Soviet Union alliance in the first place.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Hrolf The Ganger 28 Nov 16 1.17pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Except that's not really true. Some of the West definitely, but a number of European countries have had relationships and trade with Cuba over the last 20 or 30 years. Its really only the US that held a tight, long grudge and influenced other nations to follow suit. Arguably it was the US that really forced Cuba into the Soviet Union alliance in the first place.
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