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Lyons550 Shirley 18 Feb 16 12.32pm | |
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Originally posted by Bert the Head
No they wont be. But I never thought I was in that league tbh. They will be writing about how Great Britain became little England, though. That was my point. Why not address that instead of the abuse stuff. I don't mind abuse either when its original and funny and not some antiquated "you is a red what is in the bed you is Nana nanana" Daily Express stuff. Why not do yourself a favour and read something more challenging. I suggest Chomsky. Honest, Hoofy -by Chapter 2 of anything he has written - you'll be on the virtual Barricades with me. Just have a little peek at `World Order, Old and New', or `Deterring Democracy' or `Failed States' and see for yourself. Did you actually know that Maggie supported Pol Pot after he did the genocide stuff? All those people killed and she routing for him. Imagine that! Its fact. Not reported much because its kind of awkward and unless its Corbyn the press don't do foreign policy awkward much. Its a power thing. Read Chomsky and you'll realize that that Daily Express is messing with your head; or more straight-forwardly being economical with the truth to you - who else said that?
Edited by Bert the Head (17 Feb 2016 10.28pm) How did we become Great Britain in your eyes? Exploiting others, countries and slavery in order to kick start the Industrial revolution on their collective backs (?)
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Bert the Head Epsom 18 Feb 16 11.48pm | |
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Originally posted by Lyons550
But we certainly made a lot of money out of slavery or some of us did. I'm more concerned about recent history, for example our role in over throwing a democratic government in Iran in 1953, supporting the nascent Islamic terrorists in Afghanistan in the 1980s; supporting Saddam Hussein and arming him with chemical weapons and supporting evil murderers like Pinochet and Pol Pot. Basically I am kind of proud to be British and this stuff isn't supposed to be what we are about. Maybe I believe in a silly myth that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. But it's worth keep pushing for. Isn't it?
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Stirlingsays 19 Feb 16 1.40am | |
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Originally posted by Bert the Head
But we certainly made a lot of money out of slavery or some of us did. I'm more concerned about recent history, for example our role in over throwing a democratic government in Iran in 1953, supporting the nascent Islamic terrorists in Afghanistan in the 1980s; supporting Saddam Hussein and arming him with chemical weapons and supporting evil murderers like Pinochet and Pol Pot. Basically I am kind of proud to be British and this stuff isn't supposed to be what we are about. Maybe I believe in a silly myth that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. But it's worth keep pushing for. Isn't it?
Which country didn't make a lot of money out of slavery? Slavery existed in every single country in the world. Money was made by the elites in every country. You appear to be complaining because western countries shipped their slavery between countries and industrialized it. Slavery is slavery. Britain was the first to outlaw it in the world. The self important but 'self hating' left...... They moan like feck about historical privilege but the ones I've known grab every little opportunity for advantage that they can out of life.....the hypocrisy is lost on them.
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Sportyteacher London 19 Feb 16 7.38am | |
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Surely readers are not so gullible to believe this drivel. Factor in zero-hour contract positions; reappointed part-time positions that were previously full-time; apprenticeships that don't eventually deliver upon publicised employment etc. It is both past and present Government ministerial practice to publish contrived data to convince the gullible electorate that policy decision-making IS working. Next, we'll start believing in the manipulated crime figures that are routinely peddled out. The trouble is that the electorate fails to properly scrutinise the methodology employed to produce such statistics.
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Lyons550 Shirley 19 Feb 16 2.33pm | |
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Originally posted by Bert the Head
But we certainly made a lot of money out of slavery or some of us did. I'm more concerned about recent history, for example our role in over throwing a democratic government in Iran in 1953, supporting the nascent Islamic terrorists in Afghanistan in the 1980s; supporting Saddam Hussein and arming him with chemical weapons and supporting evil murderers like Pinochet and Pol Pot. Basically I am kind of proud to be British and this stuff isn't supposed to be what we are about. Maybe I believe in a silly myth that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. But it's worth keep pushing for. Isn't it?
I'm not saying you're right or wrong but the context in which you originally referred to 'Great Britain' is far more than simply our collective name. And when referred to in said context people lose sight of the fact we trod over a third of the world in order to become that 'Great Britain' and not in the too distant past either. Like you I'm extremely proud to be British but we haven't always been 'Great'. I also realise I picked on your phrasing unnecessarily and it wasn't a personal slight ...more of an observation of a term that gets bandied about in every day commentary. I'm certainly no Leftie! Edited by Lyons550 (19 Feb 2016 2.35pm)
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Bert the Head Epsom 19 Feb 16 10.22pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Which country didn't make a lot of money out of slavery? Slavery existed in every single country in the world. Money was made by the elites in every country. You appear to be complaining because western countries shipped their slavery between countries and industrialized it. Slavery is slavery. Britain was the first to outlaw it in the world. The self important but 'self hating' left...... They moan like feck about historical privilege but the ones I've known grab every little opportunity for advantage that they can out of life.....the hypocrisy is lost on them. I agree that Britain has a lot to be proud of regarding outlawing slavery. I don't buy the self hating, its more about living up to our ideals.
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Bert the Head Epsom 19 Feb 16 10.38pm | |
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Originally posted by Lyons550
I'm not saying you're right or wrong but the context in which you originally referred to 'Great Britain' is far more than simply our collective name. And when referred to in said context people lose sight of the fact we trod over a third of the world in order to become that 'Great Britain' and not in the too distant past either. Like you I'm extremely proud to be British but we haven't always been 'Great'. I also realise I picked on your phrasing unnecessarily and it wasn't a personal slight ...more of an observation of a term that gets bandied about in every day commentary. I'm certainly no Leftie! Edited by Lyons550 (19 Feb 2016 2.35pm) Fair point. I hold my hands up. Its just the "I got this from the tabloids (or the Telegraph)" so its true nanana stuff that rankles with me. I think I was having a go at that. I am certain that the British press is the most dysfunctional institution in the UK unless you are the powerful; in which case it achieves its aims perfectly. We might not agree on that. But I'm open to an argument to the contrary. Edited by Bert the Head (19 Feb 2016 10.40pm)
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chris123 hove actually 19 Feb 16 10.49pm | |
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Originally posted by Sportyteacher
Surely readers are not so gullible to believe this drivel. Factor in zero-hour contract positions; reappointed part-time positions that were previously full-time; apprenticeships that don't eventually deliver upon publicised employment etc. It is both past and present Government ministerial practice to publish contrived data to convince the gullible electorate that policy decision-making IS working. Next, we'll start believing in the manipulated crime figures that are routinely peddled out. The trouble is that the electorate fails to properly scrutinise the methodology employed to produce such statistics. Well our GDP is now bigger than France, which makes us the 5th largest economy in the world.
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Bert the Head Epsom 19 Feb 16 11.38pm | |
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Originally posted by chris123
Well our GDP is now bigger than France, which makes us the 5th largest economy in the world. But we are 14th in terms of standard of living which show up how unequal we are. No one doubts that we are a rich nation. But some of us are much much richer in that nation than others. Surely it would be better to be the 14th richest country in the world with the 5th best standard of living? We are currently 9th in terms terms of housing standards and 20th in terms of job security. GDP seems a bit meaningless to every day life really. Edited by Bert the Head (19 Feb 2016 11.38pm) Edited by Bert the Head (20 Feb 2016 12.06am)
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Sportyteacher London 20 Feb 16 8.29am | |
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Originally posted by Bert the Head
But we are 14th in terms of standard of living which show up how unequal we are. No one doubts that we are a rich nation. But some of us are much much richer in that nation than others. Surely it would be better to be the 14th richest country in the world with the 5th best standard of living? We are currently 9th in terms terms of housing standards and 20th in terms of job security. GDP seems a bit meaningless to every day life really. Edited by Bert the Head (19 Feb 2016 11.38pm) Edited by Bert the Head (20 Feb 2016 12.06am) Bert: Brilliant comeback. Readers might also want to reflect upon Institute of Fiscal Studies' assessment of Osborne & UK Economy that is hardly glowing in praise and calls for deeper cuts to reduce the ever mounting deficit.
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chris123 hove actually 20 Feb 16 8.41am | |
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Originally posted by Bert the Head
But we are 14th in terms of standard of living which show up how unequal we are. No one doubts that we are a rich nation. But some of us are much much richer in that nation than others. Surely it would be better to be the 14th richest country in the world with the 5th best standard of living? We are currently 9th in terms terms of housing standards and 20th in terms of job security. GDP seems a bit meaningless to every day life really. Edited by Bert the Head (19 Feb 2016 11.38pm) Edited by Bert the Head (20 Feb 2016 12.06am) Well except that on this thread the context is austerity, so probably not.
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Hoof Hearted 20 Feb 16 11.15am | |
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Originally posted by Sportyteacher
Bert: Brilliant comeback. Readers might also want to reflect upon Institute of Fiscal Studies' assessment of Osborne & UK Economy that is hardly glowing in praise and calls for deeper cuts to reduce the ever mounting deficit. But who is measuring this "Standards of Living" and compiling a league table? I'll bet one of the factors measured is the use of foodbanks - but no one can say for certain our foodbanks are only popular because most dole money is spent on fags, booze, iphones, sky subscriptions and smart tv's.... if people know they can get food/clothing at food banks they will.
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