Let’s celebrate the left

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cryrst The garden of England 29 Jan 23 7.45am
Originally posted by HKOwen Oh dear, it's wibble time. Extreme right wing? and what does mean to you exactly? Anyone who disagrees with your opinion. Edited by HKOwen (28 Jan 2023 10.07pm) Worse! Anyone who votes Tory
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cryrst

The garden of England 29 Jan 23 7.45am

Originally posted by HKOwen

Oh dear, it's wibble time. Extreme right wing? and what does mean to you exactly? Anyone who disagrees with your opinion.

Edited by HKOwen (28 Jan 2023 10.07pm)

Worse! Anyone who votes Tory

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Badger11 Beckenham 29 Jan 23 9.06am
Originally posted by Mapletree Why? Before answering look at employee demographics. My lady friend is going through the change. Her employers are sympathetic mostly it means that she has spells where she doesn't feel well for about 30 mins / 1 hour so she takes a time out. After that she is fine. To be honest I don't understand the fuss about companies having a menopause policy. Is there a policy for Aids / common cold / cancer / green monkey disease / beri beri etc. If you are ill you are ill and should be treated sympathetically, is it really necessary to have a policy for every type of illness? PS Some have argued for menopause leave the problem with that is that unlike pregnancy you cannot put a clock on the change. I have a friend in her seventies who is still on HRT. Like I said when people are ill they should be treated sympathetically and fairly. Edited by Badger11 (29 Jan 2023 9.11am) One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 29 Jan 23 9.06am

Originally posted by Mapletree

Why?

Before answering look at employee demographics.

My lady friend is going through the change. Her employers are sympathetic mostly it means that she has spells where she doesn't feel well for about 30 mins / 1 hour so she takes a time out. After that she is fine.

To be honest I don't understand the fuss about companies having a menopause policy. Is there a policy for Aids / common cold / cancer / green monkey disease / beri beri etc.

If you are ill you are ill and should be treated sympathetically, is it really necessary to have a policy for every type of illness?

PS
Some have argued for menopause leave the problem with that is that unlike pregnancy you cannot put a clock on the change. I have a friend in her seventies who is still on HRT.

Like I said when people are ill they should be treated sympathetically and fairly.

Edited by Badger11 (29 Jan 2023 9.11am)

One more point

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Mapletree Croydon 29 Jan 23 9.33am
Originally posted by Badger11 My lady friend is going through the change. Her employers are sympathetic mostly it means that she has spells where she doesn't feel well for about 30 mins / 1 hour so she takes a time out. After that she is fine. To be honest I don't understand the fuss about companies having a menopause policy. Is there a policy for Aids / common cold / cancer / green monkey disease / beri beri etc. If you are ill you are ill and should be treated sympathetically, is it really necessary to have a policy for every type of illness? PS Some have argued for menopause leave the problem with that is that unlike pregnancy you cannot put a clock on the change. I have a friend in her seventies who is still on HRT. Like I said when people are ill they should be treated sympathetically and fairly. Edited by Badger11 (29 Jan 2023 9.11am) So you think it’s an illness. Wow, maybe check how that plays with your lady friend. In the US maternity is treated as an illness from a leave perspective. I think you included the reason for the policy rather nicely, and with good empathy, in your post. For an average of two years, ladies in their prime employment period (around 50) will likely have issues for which a good employer will make adjustments. Without a policy nobody will know what they should, could or should not do. What happens if someone claims they need a couple of hours off each day and that goes on for years for example? Not every employee is honest. And not every manager is good at managing people And as we know, some just don’t appear to care and will treat employees as cannon fodder, no matter the long term consequences. Edited by Mapletree (29 Jan 2023 9.33am)
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Mapletree

Croydon 29 Jan 23 9.33am

Originally posted by Badger11

To be honest I don't understand the fuss about companies having a menopause policy. Is there a policy for Aids / common cold / cancer / green monkey disease / beri beri etc.

If you are ill you are ill and should be treated sympathetically, is it really necessary to have a policy for every type of illness?

PS
Some have argued for menopause leave the problem with that is that unlike pregnancy you cannot put a clock on the change. I have a friend in her seventies who is still on HRT.

Like I said when people are ill they should be treated sympathetically and fairly.

Edited by Badger11 (29 Jan 2023 9.11am)

So you think it’s an illness. Wow, maybe check how that plays with your lady friend. In the US maternity is treated as an illness from a leave perspective.

I think you included the reason for the policy rather nicely, and with good empathy, in your post. For an average of two years, ladies in their prime employment period (around 50) will likely have issues for which a good employer will make adjustments.

Without a policy nobody will know what they should, could or should not do.

What happens if someone claims they need a couple of hours off each day and that goes on for years for example? Not every employee is honest. And not every manager is good at managing people

And as we know, some just don’t appear to care and will treat employees as cannon fodder, no matter the long term consequences.

Edited by Mapletree (29 Jan 2023 9.33am)

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Teddy Eagle 29 Jan 23 9.45am
Originally posted by Mapletree So you think it’s an illness. Wow, maybe check how that plays with your lady friend. In the US maternity is treated as an illness from a leave perspective. I think you included the reason for the policy rather nicely, and with good empathy, in your post. For an average of two years, ladies in their prime employment period (around 50) will likely have issues for which a good employer will make adjustments. Without a policy nobody will know what they should, could or should not do. What happens if someone claims they need a couple of hours off each day and that goes on for years for example? Not every employee is honest. And not every manager is good at managing people And as we know, some just don’t appear to care and will treat employees as cannon fodder, no matter the long term consequences. Edited by Mapletree (29 Jan 2023 9.33am) Does this policy include the so-called andropause?
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Teddy Eagle

29 Jan 23 9.45am

Originally posted by Mapletree

So you think it’s an illness. Wow, maybe check how that plays with your lady friend. In the US maternity is treated as an illness from a leave perspective.

Without a policy nobody will know what they should, could or should not do.

What happens if someone claims they need a couple of hours off each day and that goes on for years for example? Not every employee is honest. And not every manager is good at managing people

And as we know, some just don’t appear to care and will treat employees as cannon fodder, no matter the long term consequences.

Edited by Mapletree (29 Jan 2023 9.33am)

Does this policy include the so-called andropause?

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Mapletree Croydon 29 Jan 23 9.51am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Does this policy include the so-called andropause? The "male menopause" (sometimes called the andropause) is an unhelpful term sometimes used in the media. This label is misleading because it suggests the symptoms are the result of a sudden drop in testosterone in middle age, similar to what occurs in the female menopause. This is not true. Although testosterone levels fall as men age, the decline is steady at about 1% a year from around the age of 30 to 40, and this is unlikely to cause any problems in itself. So no.
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Mapletree

Croydon 29 Jan 23 9.51am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Does this policy include the so-called andropause?

The "male menopause" (sometimes called the andropause) is an unhelpful term sometimes used in the media.

This label is misleading because it suggests the symptoms are the result of a sudden drop in testosterone in middle age, similar to what occurs in the female menopause. This is not true.

Although testosterone levels fall as men age, the decline is steady at about 1% a year from around the age of 30 to 40, and this is unlikely to cause any problems in itself.

So no.

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Badger11 Beckenham 29 Jan 23 10.04am
Originally posted by Mapletree So you think it’s an illness.1 Wow, maybe check how that plays with your lady friend. In the US maternity is treated as an illness from a leave perspective. I think you included the reason for the policy rather nicely, and with good empathy, in your post. For an average of two years, ladies in their prime employment period (around 50) will likely have issues for which a good employer will make adjustments 2. Without a policy nobody will know what they should, could or should not do. What happens if someone claims they need a couple of hours off each day and that goes on for years for example? Not every employee is honest. And not every manager is good at managing people 3 And as we know, some just don’t appear to care and will treat employees as cannon fodder, no matter the long term consequences. Edited by Mapletree (29 Jan 2023 9.33am) 1. Semantics, you say tomato fine then a condition that most women go through, happy? 2. Like I said it impacts women differently 2 years may be an average but you should not put a clock on it. 3. Same thing as anyone who fakes an illness. Most employers will tell you they suspect someone is trying it on but it is very difficult and time consuming to prove it. Been there seen it done that won an unfair dismissal case. Mostly people don't fake it apart from the odd sick day. Edited by Badger11 (29 Jan 2023 10.05am) One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 29 Jan 23 10.04am

Originally posted by Mapletree

So you think it’s an illness.1 Wow, maybe check how that plays with your lady friend. In the US maternity is treated as an illness from a leave perspective.

I think you included the reason for the policy rather nicely, and with good empathy, in your post. For an average of two years, ladies in their prime employment period (around 50) will likely have issues for which a good employer will make adjustments 2.

Without a policy nobody will know what they should, could or should not do.

What happens if someone claims they need a couple of hours off each day and that goes on for years for example? Not every employee is honest. And not every manager is good at managing people 3

And as we know, some just don’t appear to care and will treat employees as cannon fodder, no matter the long term consequences.

Edited by Mapletree (29 Jan 2023 9.33am)

1. Semantics, you say tomato fine then a condition that most women go through, happy?

2. Like I said it impacts women differently 2 years may be an average but you should not put a clock on it.

3. Same thing as anyone who fakes an illness. Most employers will tell you they suspect someone is trying it on but it is very difficult and time consuming to prove it. Been there seen it done that won an unfair dismissal case. Mostly people don't fake it apart from the odd sick day.

Edited by Badger11 (29 Jan 2023 10.05am)

One more point

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Teddy Eagle 29 Jan 23 10.06am
Originally posted by Mapletree The "male menopause" (sometimes called the andropause) is an unhelpful term sometimes used in the media. This label is misleading because it suggests the symptoms are the result of a sudden drop in testosterone in middle age, similar to what occurs in the female menopause. This is not true. Although testosterone levels fall as men age, the decline is steady at about 1% a year from around the age of 30 to 40, and this is unlikely to cause any problems in itself. So no. So not that inclusive then.
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Teddy Eagle

29 Jan 23 10.06am

Originally posted by Mapletree

The "male menopause" (sometimes called the andropause) is an unhelpful term sometimes used in the media.

This label is misleading because it suggests the symptoms are the result of a sudden drop in testosterone in middle age, similar to what occurs in the female menopause. This is not true.

Although testosterone levels fall as men age, the decline is steady at about 1% a year from around the age of 30 to 40, and this is unlikely to cause any problems in itself.

So no.

So not that inclusive then.

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Mapletree Croydon 29 Jan 23 10.11am
Originally posted by Badger11 1. Semantics, you say tomato fine then a condition that most women go through, happy? 2. Like I said it impacts women differently 2 years may be an average but you should not put a clock on it. 3. Same thing as anyone who fakes an illness. Most employers will tell you they suspect someone is trying it on but it is very difficult and time consuming to prove it. Been there seen it done that won an unfair dismissal case. Mostly people don't fake it apart from the odd sick day. Edited by Badger11 (29 Jan 2023 10.05am) Yes Agreed, and nobody does Also agreed. A policy is there for guidance in all circumstances given this is such a common employment issue. Overlooked until very recently.
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Mapletree

Croydon 29 Jan 23 10.11am

Originally posted by Badger11

1. Semantics, you say tomato fine then a condition that most women go through, happy?

2. Like I said it impacts women differently 2 years may be an average but you should not put a clock on it.

Edited by Badger11 (29 Jan 2023 10.05am)

Yes

Agreed, and nobody does

Also agreed. A policy is there for guidance in all circumstances given this is such a common employment issue. Overlooked until very recently.

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Badger11 Beckenham 29 Jan 23 10.45am
Originally posted by Mapletree Yes Agreed, and nobody does Also agreed. A policy is there for guidance in all circumstances given this is such a common employment issue. Overlooked until very recently. Glad we are in agreement over some things. Regarding your last point I agree it's been over looked but then that comes under treating people who are ill fairly and I have no doubt some don't but it's no different to being unsympathetic to an employee who has just lost a family member, some people are jerks. What I am really saying is that today politicians and activists always want a policy for something backed up be law. I don''t think this is necessary or desirable as long as employment law supports workers who are ill or have a medical condition. As a boss I had to deal with several issues over the years I would contact HR for advice to ensure I understood company policy. If HR had any doubts regarding the nature of the problem (they normally didn't) they would recommend the staff member see the in house doctor and for me to take guidance from him. So it wasn't necessary to have detailed guidelines on every potential medical issue a blanket sickness policy was sufficient. Edited by Badger11 (29 Jan 2023 10.47am) One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 29 Jan 23 10.45am

Originally posted by Mapletree

Yes

Agreed, and nobody does

Also agreed. A policy is there for guidance in all circumstances given this is such a common employment issue. Overlooked until very recently.

Glad we are in agreement over some things. Regarding your last point I agree it's been over looked but then that comes under treating people who are ill fairly and I have no doubt some don't but it's no different to being unsympathetic to an employee who has just lost a family member, some people are jerks.

What I am really saying is that today politicians and activists always want a policy for something backed up be law. I don''t think this is necessary or desirable as long as employment law supports workers who are ill or have a medical condition.

As a boss I had to deal with several issues over the years I would contact HR for advice to ensure I understood company policy. If HR had any doubts regarding the nature of the problem (they normally didn't) they would recommend the staff member see the in house doctor and for me to take guidance from him.

So it wasn't necessary to have detailed guidelines on every potential medical issue a blanket sickness policy was sufficient.

Edited by Badger11 (29 Jan 2023 10.47am)

One more point

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Mapletree Croydon 29 Jan 23 12.13pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle So not that inclusive then. Ah, don't worry. I would have no problem recommending to your manager that they send you off somewhere to cool down.
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Mapletree

Croydon 29 Jan 23 12.13pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

So not that inclusive then.

Ah, don't worry. I would have no problem recommending to your manager that they send you off somewhere to cool down.

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Mapletree Croydon 29 Jan 23 12.14pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Glad we are in agreement over some things. Regarding your last point I agree it's been over looked but then that comes under treating people who are ill fairly and I have no doubt some don't but it's no different to being unsympathetic to an employee who has just lost a family member, some people are jerks. What I am really saying is that today politicians and activists always want a policy for something backed up be law. I don''t think this is necessary or desirable as long as employment law supports workers who are ill or have a medical condition. As a boss I had to deal with several issues over the years I would contact HR for advice to ensure I understood company policy. If HR had any doubts regarding the nature of the problem (they normally didn't) they would recommend the staff member see the in house doctor and for me to take guidance from him. So it wasn't necessary to have detailed guidelines on every potential medical issue a blanket sickness policy was sufficient. Edited by Badger11 (29 Jan 2023 10.47am) You should take a walk in my world. I write policies to avoid misunderstandings. A sickness policy DOES NOT cover this, it isn't sickness.
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Mapletree

Croydon 29 Jan 23 12.14pm

Originally posted by Badger11

So it wasn't necessary to have detailed guidelines on every potential medical issue a blanket sickness policy was sufficient.

Edited by Badger11 (29 Jan 2023 10.47am)

You should take a walk in my world. I write policies to avoid misunderstandings. A sickness policy DOES NOT cover this, it isn't sickness.

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Teddy Eagle 29 Jan 23 12.25pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Ah, don't worry. I would have no problem recommending to your manager that they send you off somewhere to cool down. That's OK. You keep on with your inclusivity planning which only includes those you deem worthy of your patronage.
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Teddy Eagle

29 Jan 23 12.25pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Ah, don't worry. I would have no problem recommending to your manager that they send you off somewhere to cool down.

That's OK. You keep on with your inclusivity planning which only includes those you deem worthy of your patronage.

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