The Tory Government.

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The Tory Government.

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Hoof Hearted 22 Oct 15 10.12am
Quote Dweeb at 22 Oct 2015 8.49am Isn't it also funny how the government is allowed to nationalise banks, but can do nothing for the steel industry The government bought shares in the banks as a temporary bailout, reasonably certain that at some point in the future they could sell the shares (hopefully for a profit) because the Banks had a credit crunch rather than being unsound. As it is, most have been redeemed and not much of a loss.... only RBS has a significant government stake, but for only another year I reckon. The problem with the steel industry is more complex. The Chinese have been dumping cheap steel on the market as their appetite for construction has considerably slowed. This has caused the global price of steel to fall, and for our steel producers that means it is uneconomic to produce basic steel. The only thing the government could do would be to put a tariff on imported steel, but this would mean our car manufacturers would have to pay more for their steel and that would hit their profit margins. Some UK steel manufacturers, producing higher quality steel, are doing okay. What do you suggest the government does in this situation? Edited by Hoof Hearted (22 Oct 2015 10.14am)
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Hoof Hearted 22 Oct 15 10.12am

Quote Dweeb at 22 Oct 2015 8.49am

Isn't it also funny how the government is allowed to nationalise banks, but can do nothing for the steel industry

The government bought shares in the banks as a temporary bailout, reasonably certain that at some point in the future they could sell the shares (hopefully for a profit) because the Banks had a credit crunch rather than being unsound. As it is, most have been redeemed and not much of a loss.... only RBS has a significant government stake, but for only another year I reckon.

The problem with the steel industry is more complex. The Chinese have been dumping cheap steel on the market as their appetite for construction has considerably slowed. This has caused the global price of steel to fall, and for our steel producers that means it is uneconomic to produce basic steel.

The only thing the government could do would be to put a tariff on imported steel, but this would mean our car manufacturers would have to pay more for their steel and that would hit their profit margins.

Some UK steel manufacturers, producing higher quality steel, are doing okay.

What do you suggest the government does in this situation?

Edited by Hoof Hearted (22 Oct 2015 10.14am)

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 Oct 15 10.32am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Oct 2015 10.12am Quote Dweeb at 22 Oct 2015 8.49am Isn't it also funny how the government is allowed to nationalise banks, but can do nothing for the steel industry The government bought shares in the banks as a temporary bailout, reasonably certain that at some point in the future they could sell the shares (hopefully for a profit) because the Banks had a credit crunch rather than being unsound. As it is, most have been redeemed and not much of a loss.... only RBS has a significant government stake, but for only another year I reckon. The problem with the steel industry is more complex. The Chinese have been dumping cheap steel on the market as their appetite for construction has considerably slowed. This has caused the global price of steel to fall, and for our steel producers that means it is uneconomic to produce basic steel. The only thing the government could do would be to put a tariff on imported steel, but this would mean our car manufacturers would have to pay more for their steel and that would hit their profit margins. Some UK steel manufacturers, producing higher quality steel, are doing okay. What do you suggest the government does in this situation? Edited by Hoof Hearted (22 Oct 2015 10.14am) Look after British workers.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 22 Oct 15 10.32am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Oct 2015 10.12am

Quote Dweeb at 22 Oct 2015 8.49am

Isn't it also funny how the government is allowed to nationalise banks, but can do nothing for the steel industry

Some UK steel manufacturers, producing higher quality steel, are doing okay.

What do you suggest the government does in this situation?

Edited by Hoof Hearted (22 Oct 2015 10.14am)

Look after British workers.

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Kermit8 Hevon 22 Oct 15 10.43am
I remember back in the 90's when senior conservatives were putting a lot of time and energy in opposing the introduction of the minimum wage even though there was plenty of evidence that significant numbers of employers were paying their staff £2-3 a hour because they could. Portillo was at the forefront of that. Dread to think of the amount of poverty and other social problems going on now if they had managed to get it blocked long-term and had opted out of that bit of Maastricht legislation. See the EU isn't all bad. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 22 Oct 15 10.43am

I remember back in the 90's when senior conservatives were putting a lot of time and energy in opposing the introduction of the minimum wage even though there was plenty of evidence that significant numbers of employers were paying their staff £2-3 a hour because they could.

Portillo was at the forefront of that.

Dread to think of the amount of poverty and other social problems going on now if they had managed to get it blocked long-term and had opted out of that bit of Maastricht legislation.

See the EU isn't all bad.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 22 Oct 15 10.58am
Quote nickgusset at 22 Oct 2015 10.32am Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Oct 2015 10.12am Quote Dweeb at 22 Oct 2015 8.49am Isn't it also funny how the government is allowed to nationalise banks, but can do nothing for the steel industry The government bought shares in the banks as a temporary bailout, reasonably certain that at some point in the future they could sell the shares (hopefully for a profit) because the Banks had a credit crunch rather than being unsound. As it is, most have been redeemed and not much of a loss.... only RBS has a significant government stake, but for only another year I reckon. The problem with the steel industry is more complex. The Chinese have been dumping cheap steel on the market as their appetite for construction has considerably slowed. This has caused the global price of steel to fall, and for our steel producers that means it is uneconomic to produce basic steel. The only thing the government could do would be to put a tariff on imported steel, but this would mean our car manufacturers would have to pay more for their steel and that would hit their profit margins. Some UK steel manufacturers, producing higher quality steel, are doing okay. What do you suggest the government does in this situation? Edited by Hoof Hearted (22 Oct 2015 10.14am) Look after British workers. easy to say. How? Save 2000 steel workers jobs but lose 5-10 times that in automotive industry? Even the union conveners being interviewed have accepted that whilst they wanted the government to do more, it's not actually that easy. the dignified don't even enter in the game
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Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 22 Oct 15 10.58am

Quote nickgusset at 22 Oct 2015 10.32am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Oct 2015 10.12am

Quote Dweeb at 22 Oct 2015 8.49am

Isn't it also funny how the government is allowed to nationalise banks, but can do nothing for the steel industry

Some UK steel manufacturers, producing higher quality steel, are doing okay.

What do you suggest the government does in this situation?

Edited by Hoof Hearted (22 Oct 2015 10.14am)

Look after British workers.

easy to say. How?

Save 2000 steel workers jobs but lose 5-10 times that in automotive industry? Even the union conveners being interviewed have accepted that whilst they wanted the government to do more, it's not actually that easy.

the dignified don't even enter in the game

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Hoof Hearted 22 Oct 15 2.48pm
Quote nickgusset at 22 Oct 2015 10.32am Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Oct 2015 10.12am Quote Dweeb at 22 Oct 2015 8.49am Isn't it also funny how the government is allowed to nationalise banks, but can do nothing for the steel industry The government bought shares in the banks as a temporary bailout, reasonably certain that at some point in the future they could sell the shares (hopefully for a profit) because the Banks had a credit crunch rather than being unsound. As it is, most have been redeemed and not much of a loss.... only RBS has a significant government stake, but for only another year I reckon. The problem with the steel industry is more complex. The Chinese have been dumping cheap steel on the market as their appetite for construction has considerably slowed. This has caused the global price of steel to fall, and for our steel producers that means it is uneconomic to produce basic steel. The only thing the government could do would be to put a tariff on imported steel, but this would mean our car manufacturers would have to pay more for their steel and that would hit their profit margins. Some UK steel manufacturers, producing higher quality steel, are doing okay. What do you suggest the government does in this situation? Edited by Hoof Hearted (22 Oct 2015 10.14am) Look after British workers. You sound like Anna Eagle Nick. How? Propping up the steel price means our other industries suffer.... you could put more people out of work by meddling with economics. Mining had to go when coal was cheaper abroad, now Steel production has to face up to reality. Retraining these workers to pursue a new career is probably the best option.
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Hoof Hearted 22 Oct 15 2.48pm

Quote nickgusset at 22 Oct 2015 10.32am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Oct 2015 10.12am

Quote Dweeb at 22 Oct 2015 8.49am

Isn't it also funny how the government is allowed to nationalise banks, but can do nothing for the steel industry

Some UK steel manufacturers, producing higher quality steel, are doing okay.

What do you suggest the government does in this situation?

Edited by Hoof Hearted (22 Oct 2015 10.14am)

Look after British workers.

You sound like Anna Eagle Nick.

How?

Propping up the steel price means our other industries suffer.... you could put more people out of work by meddling with economics.

Mining had to go when coal was cheaper abroad, now Steel production has to face up to reality.

Retraining these workers to pursue a new career is probably the best option.

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General 22 Oct 15 3.10pm
one thing i will never understand is if we can produce products of superior quality, ie MK sockets over some crap from anywhere else, why dont we just focus on this market? germany seem to do this pretty well with alot of things especially at my work. bosses state they want quality over cheap price toot that just needs replacing quicker or potentially causes other issues try using cheap electrical or mechanical gear and theres a massive difference in installation, maintenance and repair.. stress and costs! surely this can be for the steel works aswell...?
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General

22 Oct 15 3.10pm

one thing i will never understand is if we can produce products of superior quality, ie MK sockets over some crap from anywhere else, why dont we just focus on this market?

germany seem to do this pretty well with alot of things especially at my work. bosses state they want quality over cheap price toot that just needs replacing quicker or potentially causes other issues

try using cheap electrical or mechanical gear and theres a massive difference in installation, maintenance and repair.. stress and costs!

surely this can be for the steel works aswell...?

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jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Oct 15 3.31pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Oct 2015 10.12am Quote Dweeb at 22 Oct 2015 8.49am Isn't it also funny how the government is allowed to nationalise banks, but can do nothing for the steel industry The government bought shares in the banks as a temporary bailout, reasonably certain that at some point in the future they could sell the shares (hopefully for a profit) because the Banks had a credit crunch rather than being unsound. As it is, most have been redeemed and not much of a loss.... only RBS has a significant government stake, but for only another year I reckon. The problem with the steel industry is more complex. The Chinese have been dumping cheap steel on the market as their appetite for construction has considerably slowed. This has caused the global price of steel to fall, and for our steel producers that means it is uneconomic to produce basic steel. The only thing the government could do would be to put a tariff on imported steel, but this would mean our car manufacturers would have to pay more for their steel and that would hit their profit margins. Some UK steel manufacturers, producing higher quality steel, are doing okay. What do you suggest the government does in this situation? Edited by Hoof Hearted (22 Oct 2015 10.14am) More importantly, probably, is that if the one or two more major banks had gone down, they'd almost certainly have brought the rest of the down with them and then likely a lot of the private banks would have gone to the wall, and the consequent fall out would effectively have put the UK into a situation on a par with Greece (actually one that would make Greeks think they got off lightly). The entire UK economy is dependent on the financial industry. The loss of the steel industry, isn't going to have anywhere near the same impact. It could ruin individuals lives, but had the entire banking sector crashed, everyone would have been 'proper f**ked'. I'm in no way pro-Bank, pro-capitalism, or necessarily agree with the way it was done, but we'd all be Greece, without the benefit of the weather, had they not acted. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 22 Oct 15 3.31pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Oct 2015 10.12am

Quote Dweeb at 22 Oct 2015 8.49am

Isn't it also funny how the government is allowed to nationalise banks, but can do nothing for the steel industry

Some UK steel manufacturers, producing higher quality steel, are doing okay.

What do you suggest the government does in this situation?

Edited by Hoof Hearted (22 Oct 2015 10.14am)

More importantly, probably, is that if the one or two more major banks had gone down, they'd almost certainly have brought the rest of the down with them and then likely a lot of the private banks would have gone to the wall, and the consequent fall out would effectively have put the UK into a situation on a par with Greece (actually one that would make Greeks think they got off lightly). The entire UK economy is dependent on the financial industry.

The loss of the steel industry, isn't going to have anywhere near the same impact. It could ruin individuals lives, but had the entire banking sector crashed, everyone would have been 'proper f**ked'.

I'm in no way pro-Bank, pro-capitalism, or necessarily agree with the way it was done, but we'd all be Greece, without the benefit of the weather, had they not acted.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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chris123 hove actually 22 Oct 15 3.42pm
Quote General at 22 Oct 2015 3.10pm one thing i will never understand is if we can produce products of superior quality, ie MK sockets over some crap from anywhere else, why dont we just focus on this market? germany seem to do this pretty well with alot of things especially at my work. bosses state they want quality over cheap price toot that just needs replacing quicker or potentially causes other issues try using cheap electrical or mechanical gear and theres a massive difference in installation, maintenance and repair.. stress and costs! surely this can be for the steel works aswell...? China is selling steel at less than their cost of production - it's the same as coal, when it's cheaper to import there's no point in trying to compete, you're better off taking advantage of the cheap import and adding value.
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chris123

hove actually 22 Oct 15 3.42pm

Quote General at 22 Oct 2015 3.10pm

one thing i will never understand is if we can produce products of superior quality, ie MK sockets over some crap from anywhere else, why dont we just focus on this market?

try using cheap electrical or mechanical gear and theres a massive difference in installation, maintenance and repair.. stress and costs!

surely this can be for the steel works aswell...?

China is selling steel at less than their cost of production - it's the same as coal, when it's cheaper to import there's no point in trying to compete, you're better off taking advantage of the cheap import and adding value.

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robdave2k 22 Oct 15 3.48pm
All economics is a cycle and in terms of voting - I always remember being told at 17 to "vote for the party that will do you the least harm" I work in an industry where I see all different types of people and know what they spend and on what. People have different priorities and things change with time. 25 years ago we hired our TV's from Rumbelows, whereas now it's comparatively cheap to buy a flat screen TV. What people consider to be "essential" has changed as well. 150 years ago the basic's were "food and a roof over your head" - now the basics seem to include food, a roof over your head and the latest electronic equipment. Whether we like it or not, Britain is tied to the financial industry. At the end of it all you have to plan for the 99 in 100, not the one in 100 and the financial sector and banks as Jamie says are far more important to the survival of a number of people than the steel industry. That's not be-litting the steel industry in anyway, I grew up in a town with a large steelworks and have a great deal of respect for the industry and the people who work in it. To look at it another way - there is a special needs learning school in the town that has 60 pupils - each has their own Ipad, Laptop and everything is provided, and virtual one on one tuition. Equipment is updated each year individually, because they don't like to share. The entire education syllabus is based round making sure they "don't kick off". This school has a budget similar to the comprehensive next door of 1000 pupils. The 1000 pupils will offer a greater return to society in terms of working and contributing, but the specialist school continues to get the funding, because it is deemed "right" in the eyes of society.
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robdave2k

22 Oct 15 3.48pm

All economics is a cycle and in terms of voting - I always remember being told at 17 to "vote for the party that will do you the least harm"

I work in an industry where I see all different types of people and know what they spend and on what. People have different priorities and things change with time. 25 years ago we hired our TV's from Rumbelows, whereas now it's comparatively cheap to buy a flat screen TV.

What people consider to be "essential" has changed as well. 150 years ago the basic's were "food and a roof over your head" - now the basics seem to include food, a roof over your head and the latest electronic equipment.

Whether we like it or not, Britain is tied to the financial industry. At the end of it all you have to plan for the 99 in 100, not the one in 100 and the financial sector and banks as Jamie says are far more important to the survival of a number of people than the steel industry. That's not be-litting the steel industry in anyway, I grew up in a town with a large steelworks and have a great deal of respect for the industry and the people who work in it.

To look at it another way - there is a special needs learning school in the town that has 60 pupils - each has their own Ipad, Laptop and everything is provided, and virtual one on one tuition. Equipment is updated each year individually, because they don't like to share. The entire education syllabus is based round making sure they "don't kick off". This school has a budget similar to the comprehensive next door of 1000 pupils. The 1000 pupils will offer a greater return to society in terms of working and contributing, but the specialist school continues to get the funding, because it is deemed "right" in the eyes of society.

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ghosteagle 22 Oct 15 7.01pm
Quote nickgusset at 22 Oct 2015 10.32am Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Oct 2015 10.12am Quote Dweeb at 22 Oct 2015 8.49am Isn't it also funny how the government is allowed to nationalise banks, but can do nothing for the steel industry The government bought shares in the banks as a temporary bailout, reasonably certain that at some point in the future they could sell the shares (hopefully for a profit) because the Banks had a credit crunch rather than being unsound. As it is, most have been redeemed and not much of a loss.... only RBS has a significant government stake, but for only another year I reckon. The problem with the steel industry is more complex. The Chinese have been dumping cheap steel on the market as their appetite for construction has considerably slowed. This has caused the global price of steel to fall, and for our steel producers that means it is uneconomic to produce basic steel. The only thing the government could do would be to put a tariff on imported steel, but this would mean our car manufacturers would have to pay more for their steel and that would hit their profit margins. Some UK steel manufacturers, producing higher quality steel, are doing okay. What do you suggest the government does in this situation? Edited by Hoof Hearted (22 Oct 2015 10.14am) Look after British workers. What a ridiculous statement. The government rejects any suggestion that it has any interest in the british worker or his welfare. You are living in an outdated version of the past if you think that the job of the british government is to protect and look after working people.
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ghosteagle

22 Oct 15 7.01pm

Quote nickgusset at 22 Oct 2015 10.32am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Oct 2015 10.12am

Quote Dweeb at 22 Oct 2015 8.49am

Isn't it also funny how the government is allowed to nationalise banks, but can do nothing for the steel industry

Some UK steel manufacturers, producing higher quality steel, are doing okay.

What do you suggest the government does in this situation?

Edited by Hoof Hearted (22 Oct 2015 10.14am)

Look after British workers.

What a ridiculous statement. The government rejects any suggestion that it has any interest in the british worker or his welfare. You are living in an outdated version of the past if you think that the job of the british government is to protect and look after working people.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 Oct 15 9.25pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Oct 2015 2.48pm Quote nickgusset at 22 Oct 2015 10.32am Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Oct 2015 10.12am Quote Dweeb at 22 Oct 2015 8.49am Isn't it also funny how the government is allowed to nationalise banks, but can do nothing for the steel industry The government bought shares in the banks as a temporary bailout, reasonably certain that at some point in the future they could sell the shares (hopefully for a profit) because the Banks had a credit crunch rather than being unsound. As it is, most have been redeemed and not much of a loss.... only RBS has a significant government stake, but for only another year I reckon. The problem with the steel industry is more complex. The Chinese have been dumping cheap steel on the market as their appetite for construction has considerably slowed. This has caused the global price of steel to fall, and for our steel producers that means it is uneconomic to produce basic steel. The only thing the government could do would be to put a tariff on imported steel, but this would mean our car manufacturers would have to pay more for their steel and that would hit their profit margins. Some UK steel manufacturers, producing higher quality steel, are doing okay. What do you suggest the government does in this situation? Edited by Hoof Hearted (22 Oct 2015 10.14am) Look after British workers. You sound like Anna Eagle Nick. How? Propping up the steel price means our other industries suffer.... you could put more people out of work by meddling with economics. Mining had to go when coal was cheaper abroad, now Steel production has to face up to reality. Retraining these workers to pursue a new career is probably the best option. [Link] 1/4 million jobs at risk...
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 22 Oct 15 9.25pm

Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Oct 2015 2.48pm

Quote nickgusset at 22 Oct 2015 10.32am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Oct 2015 10.12am

Quote Dweeb at 22 Oct 2015 8.49am

Isn't it also funny how the government is allowed to nationalise banks, but can do nothing for the steel industry

Some UK steel manufacturers, producing higher quality steel, are doing okay.

What do you suggest the government does in this situation?

Edited by Hoof Hearted (22 Oct 2015 10.14am)

Look after British workers.

You sound like Anna Eagle Nick.

How?

Propping up the steel price means our other industries suffer.... you could put more people out of work by meddling with economics.

Mining had to go when coal was cheaper abroad, now Steel production has to face up to reality.

Retraining these workers to pursue a new career is probably the best option.

[Link]

1/4 million jobs at risk...

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Hrolf The Ganger 23 Oct 15 1.06pm
Quote ghosteagle at 22 Oct 2015 7.01pm Quote nickgusset at 22 Oct 2015 10.32am Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Oct 2015 10.12am Quote Dweeb at 22 Oct 2015 8.49am Isn't it also funny how the government is allowed to nationalise banks, but can do nothing for the steel industry The government bought shares in the banks as a temporary bailout, reasonably certain that at some point in the future they could sell the shares (hopefully for a profit) because the Banks had a credit crunch rather than being unsound. As it is, most have been redeemed and not much of a loss.... only RBS has a significant government stake, but for only another year I reckon. The problem with the steel industry is more complex. The Chinese have been dumping cheap steel on the market as their appetite for construction has considerably slowed. This has caused the global price of steel to fall, and for our steel producers that means it is uneconomic to produce basic steel. The only thing the government could do would be to put a tariff on imported steel, but this would mean our car manufacturers would have to pay more for their steel and that would hit their profit margins. Some UK steel manufacturers, producing higher quality steel, are doing okay. What do you suggest the government does in this situation? Edited by Hoof Hearted (22 Oct 2015 10.14am) Look after British workers. What a ridiculous statement. The government rejects any suggestion that it has any interest in the british worker or his welfare. You are living in an outdated version of the past if you think that the job of the british government is to protect and look after working people. This statement makes no sense. Just saying. If you mean the government doesn't care about British workers, then explain how they can deal with the steel industry to your satisfaction. Is it sensible to prop up an industry that cannot compete in the world market ?
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Hrolf The Ganger

23 Oct 15 1.06pm