Points stop happening after the other things have eroded. We’re slowly eroding things and storing up problems to come. Soon we will either have one of the 3 worst teams or accept we are when we line up, even if we aren’t. This is what is unfolding. You cannot quantify it because of course it hasn’t happened yet.

I remember that start of season away game at newly promoted Sheffield Utd last season where we treated them like Barcelona. Sheffield utd hadn’t had a chance to get into a stride in the league but we rocked up and let them get into 5th gear as we were struggling to crunch into 2nd.

If I was asked if we should sack Roy, I’d ask for who instead and how they will be equipped. Not why we should sack (extend his contract) Roy. You can do that these days. Those days of the managers’ union and not talking to owners behind the current manager’s back are long gone. Goes with the huge money at risk of failure and multi million bumper pay offs that aren’t really being ‘sacked’ at all.

COYP

Otherwise known as the European super league. Fans have opposed that idea for decades, but as you rightly say, it's basically a two tier league now anyway. The way the money is distributed makes it harder and harder to change the status quo. Even if you've got determined ownership and great infrastructure like Leicester had, you still need the greatest sports miracle of all time to change your status, and that will wear off when the likes of arsenal get their arse into gear.

The only alternative is to adopt the American model, where the worst team from last year gets first choice of the transfers this year. That apparently prevents monopolies building up, but their system is so different to ours that you couldn't just do as they do directly.

I kind of view it as 3 mini leagues - The top 6 or 7 clubs - the middle 6 or 7 clubs & the remainder - in terms of investment were probably in the bottom group with a challenge of clawing our way into the middle group whilst every year watching other clubs drop through the relegation trapdoor, but as has been discussed on here at some length I think we can all see that its a lot easier to talk about it than do it.

Being knocked out of both cups each season without even trying is not what I want. Eventually, I'd like it if we actually tried to win something. It's not likely to be the League, let's tell the truth: a League Cup win or even final would be excellent.
Alternatively, to actually have a new stand would be nice. Even to sort out the toilets in the Arthur would be something.

We all became fans at various times: myself 1979-80 Team of the eighties.
Some previous Big Mal promotion and Cup run 70s.
Some from Sir Steve's side 1989-91, some perhaps with the later team with Southgate etc.
However, who'd join our ranks now? No one turns around and says 'I want to support a team that doesn't try to win anything and also looks unlikely to ever win anything. I'll support a team that does anything, just to stay up year on year.' Why would you?
Basic point is we looked like we were trying to win stuff at various stages, we failed but tried. That's the typical Palace feeling. Underdogs, exciting play, a few surprises. Not cynical stay up at all costs dross, certainly not at the expense of us ever being able to win anything.
I want a football ocassion once in a while, the ocassions we've all had before. Wembley, play offs, Cup runs, 3rd. Park the bus against relegation dross?! No thanks, if I was a neutral I'd support someone else. We won't have picked up many fans from this period: if any. We're the footballing equivalent of Top Gear before Clarkson.

Red and Blue Army!

At this level we are crap, In the Championship we might come to think we are not crap for a while. As Norwich, do now, but allowing for the geography that we find our selfs in that’s how it is . Unless a party with not just money but influence enough to push this club beyond the restraints that have always kept us from being even a South London ,equivalent of the the existing London giants, we will struggle constantly just to stay in the division.
I think we can, but it will always be at the cost of style. And as has always been the case in the past right up to this day, a battle to find that influence needed to bring our dreams of major status to a reality.
If we are true Palace, we have to take them warts and all. If it’s a case of just wanting to watch a team with obvious class , win a trophy now and again then there is more opportunity than ever before to do that at a number of venues. And that’s not me saying , you can’t ask for more you can. I just try to say why getting more is going to be pretty well impossible ,until that mega pot of influence,, and not just money comes along. So that no Palace supporter need look outside of Palace ,for their football treat.
The present football hasn’t been pretty ,no doubt. When they have to get bums back on the seats , and the entertainment doesn’t happen, maybe they might try to get results in a more entertaining fashion. But looking at the facts of life for so many teams relegated trying to be entertaining anything could happen .

It’s incredible that people haven’t grasped this yet;

It’s possible to want to move on from Roy without expecting to compete with Man City and win the league... there are many, many, many levels of progress between that.

We have had considerably better teams than this over the last 7 years and achieved very similar results, yet now supposedly this is the only way that could possibly keep us up? It’s just demonstrably untrue.

All this talk of two-tier leagues, financial restraints compared with the super clubs... it’s just disingenuous.

Compare our performances to the clubs around us.. we’ve lost to plenty of them in the last month it’s fairly easily done.