Is this Racist?

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Is this Racist?

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hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Jan 17 7.54am
Originally posted by johnfirewall I'm guessing even Antiques Roadshow has been the subject of some sort of complaint. Someone's always offended by something. 99% of the time all we're seeing is costume/ make-up with no other intentions than to impersonate someone of another race whereas this is a pretty direct example of him mocking a particular group. The kid dressing up as his favourite rugby player is a good example of something being absolutely free from any intent to present a negative stereotype. Of course we can't take offence out of the equation and let the intention dictate whether an action is acceptable as people would just around being cnuts blacking up and pleading ignorance but neither can we have people dictating that you can't even dress up as someone from another culture dressing up as something (see Ashley Tisdale and the Day of the Dead backlash). Confused with David Dickinson? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 05 Jan 17 7.54am

Originally posted by johnfirewall

I'm guessing even Antiques Roadshow has been the subject of some sort of complaint. Someone's always offended by something.

99% of the time all we're seeing is costume/ make-up with no other intentions than to impersonate someone of another race whereas this is a pretty direct example of him mocking a particular group.

The kid dressing up as his favourite rugby player is a good example of something being absolutely free from any intent to present a negative stereotype.

Of course we can't take offence out of the equation and let the intention dictate whether an action is acceptable as people would just around being cnuts blacking up and pleading ignorance but neither can we have people dictating that you can't even dress up as someone from another culture dressing up as something (see Ashley Tisdale and the Day of the Dead backlash).

Confused with David Dickinson?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Jan 17 10.06am
I guess the question would be, why did he black up as a sunglass seller? Surely people who sell sunglasses does not in its nature require blackface? "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 05 Jan 17 10.06am

I guess the question would be, why did he black up as a sunglass seller? Surely people who sell sunglasses does not in its nature require blackface?

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 05 Jan 17 10.26am
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 I guess the question would be, why did he black up as a sunglass seller? Surely people who sell sunglasses does not in its nature require blackface? have you ever south of your Dungeon and visited sunnier climbs ? Any beach with sunshine in Spain, the Balearic islands etc etc, will have without doubt a North African gent selling Sun glasses, DVD's or snide Aftershave. Not racist, not offensive, it's funny. I Would suggest that anyone who does find this offensive needs to get a grip, as there are far more pressing issues in the world at the moment. "It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"
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dannyh

wherever I lay my hat....... 05 Jan 17 10.26am

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I guess the question would be, why did he black up as a sunglass seller? Surely people who sell sunglasses does not in its nature require blackface?

have you ever south of your Dungeon and visited sunnier climbs ? Any beach with sunshine in Spain, the Balearic islands etc etc, will have without doubt a North African gent selling Sun glasses, DVD's or snide Aftershave.

Not racist, not offensive, it's funny. I Would suggest that anyone who does find this offensive needs to get a grip, as there are far more pressing issues in the world at the moment.

"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Jan 17 10.47am
Originally posted by dannyh have you ever south of your Dungeon and visited sunnier climbs ? Any beach with sunshine in Spain, the Balearic islands etc etc, will have without doubt a North African gent selling Sun glasses, DVD's or snide Aftershave. Not racist, not offensive, it's funny. I Would suggest that anyone who does find this offensive needs to get a grip, as there are far more pressing issues in the world at the moment. So you're saying it is racist, but not very, which is pretty much true, because the racial element is essential to the humour. I don't think its particularly racist, and its not really offensive, but it is racist - As it relies on a racial stereotype to project its humour. I quite agree, getting offended by something like this is actually funnier than the fancy dress. But I do find it very interesting that people think something that relies on a racial issue to be funny, isn't racist (even if its not very racist). "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 05 Jan 17 10.47am

Originally posted by dannyh

Not racist, not offensive, it's funny. I Would suggest that anyone who does find this offensive needs to get a grip, as there are far more pressing issues in the world at the moment.

So you're saying it is racist, but not very, which is pretty much true, because the racial element is essential to the humour. I don't think its particularly racist, and its not really offensive, but it is racist - As it relies on a racial stereotype to project its humour.

I quite agree, getting offended by something like this is actually funnier than the fancy dress. But I do find it very interesting that people think something that relies on a racial issue to be funny, isn't racist (even if its not very racist).

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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johnfirewall 05 Jan 17 10.56am
Are there blurred boundaries on what constitutes a racist crime and perhaps a bit too much emphasis on the motives for what are appalling crimes regardless? In a case where someone is physically harmed by perpetrators making derogatory statements, police are still trying to 'determine whether or not this is sincere or just stupid ranting and raving', while a joke on Twitter is cut and dry racism. [Link]
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johnfirewall

05 Jan 17 10.56am

Are there blurred boundaries on what constitutes a racist crime and perhaps a bit too much emphasis on the motives for what are appalling crimes regardless?

In a case where someone is physically harmed by perpetrators making derogatory statements, police are still trying to 'determine whether or not this is sincere or just stupid ranting and raving', while a joke on Twitter is cut and dry racism.

[Link]

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Pussay Patrol 05 Jan 17 11.04am
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 So you're saying it is racist, but not very, which is pretty much true, because the racial element is essential to the humour. I don't think its particularly racist, and its not really offensive, but it is racist - As it relies on a racial stereotype to project its humour. I quite agree, getting offended by something like this is actually funnier than the fancy dress. But I do find it very interesting that people think something that relies on a racial issue to be funny, isn't racist (even if its not very racist). It isn't racial stereotype, it's general stereotype, it's only you who throws race into it, how is the notion that a sunglasses seller in southern Europe resorts who is of black origin depict racism? If he was dressed as a black slave perhaps, as the trade was oppression and racist so it's understandable people would be offended by it Edited by Pussay Patrol (05 Jan 2017 11.06am) Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah
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Pussay Patrol

05 Jan 17 11.04am

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

It isn't racial stereotype, it's general stereotype, it's only you who throws race into it, how is the notion that a sunglasses seller in southern Europe resorts who is of black origin depict racism? If he was dressed as a black slave perhaps, as the trade was oppression and racist so it's understandable people would be offended by it

Edited by Pussay Patrol (05 Jan 2017 11.06am)

Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Jan 17 12.33pm
Originally posted by Pussay Patrol It isn't racial stereotype, it's general stereotype, it's only you who throws race into it, how is the notion that a sunglasses seller in southern Europe resorts who is of black origin depict racism? If he was dressed as a black slave perhaps, as the trade was oppression and racist so it's understandable people would be offended by it Edited by Pussay Patrol (05 Jan 2017 11.06am) Is it only funny because he's blacked up? "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 05 Jan 17 12.33pm

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

Edited by Pussay Patrol (05 Jan 2017 11.06am)

Is it only funny because he's blacked up?

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 05 Jan 17 12.45pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Is it only funny because he's blacked up? It's not funny at all for me but then I'm hard to please on the comedy front. I'm offended by the spread of religion and women wearing hijabs. Can we have a thread on that? Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (05 Jan 2017 12.45pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger

05 Jan 17 12.45pm

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Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Is it only funny because he's blacked up?

It's not funny at all for me but then I'm hard to please on the comedy front.

I'm offended by the spread of religion and women wearing hijabs. Can we have a thread on that?

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (05 Jan 2017 12.45pm)

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jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Jan 17 12.54pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger It's not funny at all for me but then I'm hard to please on the comedy front. I'm offended by the spread of religion and women wearing hijabs. Can we have a thread on that? Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (05 Jan 2017 12.45pm) You mean another thread... I'm not really offended by any of the issues here. Religion, what women wear or some idiot in black up. The question is 'it racist', and yes, to some degree it must be racist, if its only 'funny' because of a racial angle. Arguably its slightly racist, but its hardly worth getting worked up over either. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 05 Jan 17 12.54pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

It's not funny at all for me but then I'm hard to please on the comedy front.

I'm offended by the spread of religion and women wearing hijabs. Can we have a thread on that?

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (05 Jan 2017 12.45pm)

You mean another thread... I'm not really offended by any of the issues here. Religion, what women wear or some idiot in black up.

The question is 'it racist', and yes, to some degree it must be racist, if its only 'funny' because of a racial angle. Arguably its slightly racist, but its hardly worth getting worked up over either.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 05 Jan 17 1.19pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 You mean another thread... I'm not really offended by any of the issues here. Religion, what women wear or some idiot in black up. The question is 'it racist', and yes, to some degree it must be racist, if its only 'funny' because of a racial angle. Arguably its slightly racist, but its hardly worth getting worked up over either. Quite, but it is disproportionate to concern ourselves with the intent of one man's fancy dress when all kinds of objectionable influences with potentially far reaching consequences are occurring under our noses. Al I would say is on this topic, beyond what I have already said, is that it would be difficult to do a recognisable character for fancy dress purposes if you remove a key component. It would be like dressing up as Hitler without the mustache or Elvis without the hair. I don't really go to these grotty much travelled Brit' destinations so the African sunglasses salesman is not familiar to me. Therefore I can't really comment on the relevance of his blackness. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (05 Jan 2017 1.20pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger

05 Jan 17 1.19pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

You mean another thread... I'm not really offended by any of the issues here. Religion, what women wear or some idiot in black up.

Quite, but it is disproportionate to concern ourselves with the intent of one man's fancy dress when all kinds of objectionable influences with potentially far reaching consequences are occurring under our noses.

Al I would say is on this topic, beyond what I have already said, is that it would be difficult to do a recognisable character for fancy dress purposes if you remove a key component.
It would be like dressing up as Hitler without the mustache or Elvis without the hair.
I don't really go to these grotty much travelled Brit' destinations so the African sunglasses salesman is not familiar to me. Therefore I can't really comment on the relevance of his blackness.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (05 Jan 2017 1.20pm)

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jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Jan 17 3.00pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Quite, but it is disproportionate to concern ourselves with the intent of one man's fancy dress when all kinds of objectionable influences with potentially far reaching consequences are occurring under our noses. Al I would say is on this topic, beyond what I have already said, is that it would be difficult to do a recognisable character for fancy dress purposes if you remove a key component. It would be like dressing up as Hitler without the mustache or Elvis without the hair. I don't really go to these grotty much travelled Brit' destinations so the African sunglasses salesman is not familiar to me. Therefore I can't really comment on the relevance of his blackness. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (05 Jan 2017 1.20pm) There is a difference between going as a specific person (say Mr T - would be odd if you weren't blacked up - but that's in homage). I think the fact that someone has blacked up, to get a laugh, is probably a bit racist. As far as I'm aware 'sunglass seller' isn't a common fancy dress theme, and it probably relates to an 'in joke'. Of course proper journalists would maybe ask the individual why they chose to 'go as they did' - Context is always more important than the surface issues. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 05 Jan 17 3.00pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (05 Jan 2017 1.20pm)

There is a difference between going as a specific person (say Mr T - would be odd if you weren't blacked up - but that's in homage).

I think the fact that someone has blacked up, to get a laugh, is probably a bit racist. As far as I'm aware 'sunglass seller' isn't a common fancy dress theme, and it probably relates to an 'in joke'.

Of course proper journalists would maybe ask the individual why they chose to 'go as they did' - Context is always more important than the surface issues.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Kermit8 Hevon 05 Jan 17 4.02pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 You mean another thread... I'm not really offended by any of the issues here. Religion, what women wear or some idiot in black up. The question is 'it racist', and yes, to some degree it must be racist, if its only 'funny' because of a racial angle. Arguably its slightly racist, but its hardly worth getting worked up over either. Making benign racial comments or dressing up without any nasty undercurrent is very different to what I would class as 'racist' because they aren't. Racial 'yes'. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8