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jamiemartin721 Reading 11 May 16 2.40pm | |
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Originally posted by becky
No Jamie! If the accused IS innocent then the accuser MUST be telling lies because there NOTHING to be accused of if you are innocent. Sod all the 'reasonable doubt' malarkey - sometimes the true meaning of words really are are black and white. Except the verdict is not guilty. Now I accept that means that we take the view that they're treated as innocent, as their is insufficient evidence. I agree, people are 'innocent until proven guilty' as a general theme of a just and fair society. And we should treat those found not guilty as if they were completely innocent in terms of the offence. Obviously in some cases people are completely innocent, in others they had a good defence. However, we also need to be reasonable with this idea. Assuming that say a victim of rape is lying because someone is found not guilty and then treating them as a liar isn't established in law. A good example of this, would be Freddie Star who was found not guilty of allegations of sexual assault allegations. However, when he sued his accuser, he lost the case, because the Judge found in favour of the accuser, that the events she alleged had most probably occurred, but that there was insufficient evidence for this being 'beyond reasonable doubt' Its not about truth or untrue, its about what you can and cannot prove, refute and disprove. Innocence is something we extend as 'benefit of the doubt'. Usually you can tell 'how innocent' someone is from the summing up of the Judge.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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fed up eagle Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 11 May 16 9.04pm | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
How has this all got into the public domain anyway. It's Ok for Mr Celebrity Threesome to get an injunction stopping anyone from even revealing his name as with the Premiership football manager with the over active p**** but the fact that the police have prepared a dossier on a celebrity and passed it to the CPS is happily made public. The law has now changed to innocent until reputation murdered by the media Spot on. Found guilty in the court of public opinion.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 12 May 16 9.23am | |
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Originally posted by fed up eagle
Spot on. Found guilty in the court of public opinion. Has he? I haven't seen too many people who think he is guilty, or news media exposing 'the secret life of cliff Richard' only that the police have investigated and the CPS are reviewing the evidence. The only person really talking about this is in press is Mr Webb himself, who has made more statements about it, than anyone else. The BBC coverage of the search wasn't tasteful or even remotely right, but it wasn't illegal either. Plenty of news coverage and even entertainment involves footage of searches or dawn raids etc.
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Midlands Eagle 12 May 16 11.18am | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I haven't seen too many people who think he is guilty, or news media exposing 'the secret life of cliff Richard' only that the police have investigated and the CPS are reviewing the evidence. Quote
Most people will be think "where there's smoke there's fire" and even if the CPS don't proceed people will just think it's because he's famous. Originally posted by jamiemartin721
The BBC coverage of the search wasn't tasteful or even remotely right, but it wasn't illegal either. Plenty of news coverage and even entertainment involves footage of searches or dawn raids etc. Maybe the coverage of the dawn raid by the BBC wasn't illegal but I'm willing to bet that it was a sackable offence for the person that tipped them off
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jamiemartin721 Reading 12 May 16 12.53pm | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
Most people will be think "where there's smoke there's fire" and even if the CPS don't proceed people will just think it's because he's famous. Maybe the coverage of the dawn raid by the BBC wasn't illegal but I'm willing to bet that it was a sackable offence for the person that tipped them off Most people, I haven't met many. I really don't like the bloke and I'm not referring to him as a kiddie fiddler and have defended him on occasion (Personally, I think he may have attended Elm Guest house, as it was a very popular place for people who were gay in a time where being outed ended careers). And the stories about Cliff being gay are very prevalent (but that's his business). Also, I'm inclined to think he may be innocent if its only one or two allegations being made. It would be odd if only one or two people came forward with allegations. The BBC coverage was pretty poor taste. But its a bit hypocritical to complain when its a celebrity, but not when its anyone else. Police Camera Action style entertainment is pretty much the same and the news regularly has broadcast police searches. But it was overkill
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Kermit8 Hevon 12 May 16 12.59pm | |
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See, told you this would happen when we let sub-continent immigrants over in 1949.
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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 12 May 16 1.02pm | |
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There are benefits to all this. We'll never hear "Mistletoe and Wine" at Christmas ever again.
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Midlands Eagle 12 May 16 1.25pm | |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Harry Webb is a gay Anglo-Indian who became a pop star during times that were socially conservative and turbulent so can understand his desire to be closeted. There was a tool on the Radio 5 discussion in Scotland yesterday who insisted on referring to Nicola Sturgeon as Mrs Murrell and in the end everyone laughed at him as they couldn't take him seriously
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jamiemartin721 Reading 12 May 16 1.33pm | |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
There are benefits to all this. We'll never hear "Mistletoe and Wine" at Christmas ever again. This is the problem with historical allegations - if they'd been taken seriously at the time we'd have be spared the musical out put of Gary Glitter (no I don't want to be in your gang) They'd be no Klunk-Klick, Jim'll wouldn't have to Fix it, Top of the Pops, Age of the Train. Plus no Max Clifford. The world would objectively have been a better place Of course there would have been no 'its a knockout' or Rolfs Cartoon Toon club.
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Stuk Top half 12 May 16 2.03pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
This is the problem with historical allegations - if they'd been taken seriously at the time we'd have be spared the musical out put of Gary Glitter (no I don't want to be in your gang) They'd be no Klunk-Klick, Jim'll wouldn't have to Fix it, Top of the Pops, Age of the Train. Plus no Max Clifford. The world would objectively have been a better place Of course there would have been no 'its a knockout' or Rolfs Cartoon Toon club. That was always on at the perfect time to let the traffic disperse after a game at Selhurst. Just after the vidiprinter and tables finished, which we rarely got back in time for.
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Midlands Eagle 12 May 16 2.07pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
if they'd been taken seriously at the time we'd have be spared the musical out put of Gary Glitter (no I don't want to be in your gang) They'd be no Klunk-Klick, Jim'll wouldn't have to Fix it, Top of the Pops, Age of the Train. Plus no Max Clifford. The world would objectively have been a better place Of course there would have been no 'its a knockout' or Rolfs Cartoon Toon club. Plus Lost Prophets, The Who and R Kelly to name three more
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Kermit8 Hevon 12 May 16 2.13pm | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
There was a tool on the Radio 5 discussion in Scotland yesterday who insisted on referring to Nicola Sturgeon as Mrs Murrell and in the end everyone laughed at him as they couldn't take him seriously Very interesting. Thanks.
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