No more immigrants.

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No more immigrants.

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matt_himself Matataland 09 Sep 15 3.29pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Sep 2015 1.01pm Quote matt_himself at 09 Sep 2015 12.48pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Sep 2015 9.58am Quote matt_himself at 09 Sep 2015 8.07am Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Sep 2015 3.43pm Quote Kermit8 at 08 Sep 2015 1.50pm Quote leggedstruggle at 08 Sep 2015 1.41pm Quote Kermit8 at 08 Sep 2015 1.30pm Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Sep 2015 1.00pm We have always had immigrants......At a reasonable level I think there is an element of truth in all that guff the politicians want us to believe about immigration being positive......They all say it like a mantra. When I say a reasonable level I mean immigration used as a tool to balance the economy........Though I hasten to add not as tool to drive down wages for several already low paid workforces. Our immigration level should definitely take account of our housing situation. As a country I truly feel we are sticking our collective heads in the sand over housing provision......We are widening the divide between people. Many who work just have no realistic chance of owning their home........The baby boomers had the cream of the chances and have screwed it all up for the next generations. But to go back to my original point, immigration can be positive if it is controlled and takes account of the host population instead of treating them like dumping grounds and culturally rapidly changing the nature of their living spaces......That's what 'freedom of movement' has given us. People talk about London as being a success story......But they ignore that many many people left London because of rapid change.....Many people whose families had lived there for many generations. reasonableness and the immigration debate aren't on the same page. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Sep 2015 1.01pm) London in now rated by respected institutions as the top triple A* city on the globe and the most dynamic followed in second by New York. Something has gone right there since we were kids. It's a lot more varied colourful and interesting and, unfortunately, expensive but it is truly an amazing metropolis. The people make it fascinating imo. Respected by whom? Might be ok for wealthy people and visitors, pretty awful for ordinary people. I hear they are are fleeing to the likes of Devon. My London friends are "ordinary people". They love the place. But I will tell them they are wrong and it is pretty awful for them. Depends where you go in London. Some of its a sthole, other parts are ok and some parts are really nice. Certainly immigration is neither negative or positive, its both, there are pro's and cons, and even some of those pros and cons vary according to how immigration affects you. The truth is that if you live in a South London say Bermondsey estate or council block, then its probably a negative experience immigration and refugees, but then you're already in one of the most negative aspects of London life anyhow. Its just now you can blame the immigrants, rather than the Housing Crisis, prices in London etc. But in truth, even without the refugees, you're still in a sty place, that's always been sty. Places like Thorton Heath, Peckham haven't really been made worse by Immigration and Ayslum, they were always st. The last paragraph is either based on ignorance or hopeless devotion to multiculturalism. Unfortunately immigration has made places like Thornton Heath worse. There are separate communities living in the same area who view each other as from the moon. The area is far less looked after than 25 years ago, largely due to the number of transient inhabitants. There is more crime and no go areas. Places that brough the community together, like pubs, are now shut down. Unfortunately you don't get to see this unless you live in the area. My family come from the area, Thorton Heath has always been a st hole, Croydon has always been crap as has Peckham. They've also always had high crime rates. They're worse now definitely, but its not just immigration, the death of Industry in the UK really created problems of low wages and unemployment in South London. The crime is different to some extent, but South London has always had a problem with Gangs, right back since the 60s. The Flying Squad identified South London as being a principle location of threat for Armed Robbery. People tend to romanticize the past. Violence was common place in the 70s and 80s, in a way it isn't now, and it was largely much more tolerated. Youths fighting youths in the streets isn't a new thing. As for the pubs shutting down, that's a phenomena that has even affect largely white areas. Even out in the countryside of Oxfordshire and Berkshire, we are seeing the same thing. I find your position on this ignorant and patronising. You don't live in the area yet you are telling those of us that do that we are wrong to say that immigration has made he area ster. Even immigrants who live there say this. Gang culture is completely different from the sixties so your 'wiki fact' is also wrong. It's unbelievable that you choose this line of response when the truth is so opposite from it. I'm relying on what my family who lived in the area, and still live in the area have told me about it. Basically its worse, but it was always bad. I spend quite a bit of time in and around the area, and my wife lived up in Eltham and Catford for about six years before moving to Reading. I don't have to live there to know its st, my family moved away from Peckham and Bermondsey in the 50s and 60s because it was a crime ridden st hole and they could afford to move to a council estate in Dulwich. I never said it wasn't stier or worse, but that those areas have always been st anyhow. Pouring more and more immigrants into the area hasn't helped. Thank god the 80s wasn't full of gangs of youths and men turning up places kicking the st out of each other and occasionally killing one another. I must have imagined that football hooliganism that was going on. Basically, these areas are stholes that have only gotten s*tier over time, and generally people who can afford to move away. You have no practical experience and are spouting rubbish, which is patronising at best. Give it up. Edited by matt_himself (09 Sep 2015 3.29pm) "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 09 Sep 15 3.29pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Sep 2015 1.01pm

Quote matt_himself at 09 Sep 2015 12.48pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Sep 2015 9.58am

Quote matt_himself at 09 Sep 2015 8.07am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Sep 2015 3.43pm

Quote Kermit8 at 08 Sep 2015 1.50pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 08 Sep 2015 1.41pm

Quote Kermit8 at 08 Sep 2015 1.30pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Sep 2015 1.00pm

We have always had immigrants......At a reasonable level I think there is an element of truth in all that guff the politicians want us to believe about immigration being positive......They all say it like a mantra.

When I say a reasonable level I mean immigration used as a tool to balance the economy........Though I hasten to add not as tool to drive down wages for several already low paid workforces.

Our immigration level should definitely take account of our housing situation.

As a country I truly feel we are sticking our collective heads in the sand over housing provision......We are widening the divide between people.

Many who work just have no realistic chance of owning their home........The baby boomers had the cream of the chances and have screwed it all up for the next generations.

But to go back to my original point, immigration can be positive if it is controlled and takes account of the host population instead of treating them like dumping grounds and culturally rapidly changing the nature of their living spaces......That's what 'freedom of movement' has given us.

People talk about London as being a success story......But they ignore that many many people left London because of rapid change.....Many people whose families had lived there for many generations.

reasonableness and the immigration debate aren't on the same page.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Sep 2015 1.01pm)

London in now rated by respected institutions as the top triple A* city on the globe and the most dynamic followed in second by New York.

Something has gone right there since we were kids. It's a lot more varied colourful and interesting and, unfortunately, expensive but it is truly an amazing metropolis. The people make it fascinating imo.

Respected by whom? Might be ok for wealthy people and visitors, pretty awful for ordinary people. I hear they are are fleeing to the likes of Devon.

My London friends are "ordinary people". They love the place. But I will tell them they are wrong and it is pretty awful for them.

Depends where you go in London. Some of its a s**thole, other parts are ok and some parts are really nice.

Certainly immigration is neither negative or positive, its both, there are pro's and cons, and even some of those pros and cons vary according to how immigration affects you.

The truth is that if you live in a South London say Bermondsey estate or council block, then its probably a negative experience immigration and refugees, but then you're already in one of the most negative aspects of London life anyhow. Its just now you can blame the immigrants, rather than the Housing Crisis, prices in London etc.

But in truth, even without the refugees, you're still in a s**ty place, that's always been s**ty. Places like Thorton Heath, Peckham haven't really been made worse by Immigration and Ayslum, they were always s**t.

The last paragraph is either based on ignorance or hopeless devotion to multiculturalism.

Unfortunately immigration has made places like Thornton Heath worse. There are separate communities living in the same area who view each other as from the moon. The area is far less looked after than 25 years ago, largely due to the number of transient inhabitants. There is more crime and no go areas. Places that brough the community together, like pubs, are now shut down.

Unfortunately you don't get to see this unless you live in the area.

My family come from the area, Thorton Heath has always been a s**t hole, Croydon has always been crap as has Peckham. They've also always had high crime rates. They're worse now definitely, but its not just immigration, the death of Industry in the UK really created problems of low wages and unemployment in South London.

The crime is different to some extent, but South London has always had a problem with Gangs, right back since the 60s. The Flying Squad identified South London as being a principle location of threat for Armed Robbery.

People tend to romanticize the past. Violence was common place in the 70s and 80s, in a way it isn't now, and it was largely much more tolerated. Youths fighting youths in the streets isn't a new thing.

As for the pubs shutting down, that's a phenomena that has even affect largely white areas. Even out in the countryside of Oxfordshire and Berkshire, we are seeing the same thing.

I find your position on this ignorant and patronising.

You don't live in the area yet you are telling those of us that do that we are wrong to say that immigration has made he area s***ter. Even immigrants who live there say this.

Gang culture is completely different from the sixties so your 'wiki fact' is also wrong.

It's unbelievable that you choose this line of response when the truth is so opposite from it.

I'm relying on what my family who lived in the area, and still live in the area have told me about it. Basically its worse, but it was always bad. I spend quite a bit of time in and around the area, and my wife lived up in Eltham and Catford for about six years before moving to Reading.

I don't have to live there to know its s**t, my family moved away from Peckham and Bermondsey in the 50s and 60s because it was a crime ridden s**t hole and they could afford to move to a council estate in Dulwich.

I never said it wasn't s**tier or worse, but that those areas have always been s**t anyhow. Pouring more and more immigrants into the area hasn't helped.

Thank god the 80s wasn't full of gangs of youths and men turning up places kicking the s**t out of each other and occasionally killing one another. I must have imagined that football hooliganism that was going on.

Basically, these areas are s**tholes that have only gotten s**tier over time, and generally people who can afford to move away.

You have no practical experience and are spouting rubbish, which is patronising at best.

Give it up.

Edited by matt_himself (09 Sep 2015 3.29pm)

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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jamiemartin721 Reading 09 Sep 15 3.38pm
Quote matt_himself at 09 Sep 2015 3.29pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Sep 2015 1.01pm Quote matt_himself at 09 Sep 2015 12.48pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Sep 2015 9.58am Quote matt_himself at 09 Sep 2015 8.07am Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Sep 2015 3.43pm Quote Kermit8 at 08 Sep 2015 1.50pm Quote leggedstruggle at 08 Sep 2015 1.41pm Quote Kermit8 at 08 Sep 2015 1.30pm Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Sep 2015 1.00pm We have always had immigrants......At a reasonable level I think there is an element of truth in all that guff the politicians want us to believe about immigration being positive......They all say it like a mantra. When I say a reasonable level I mean immigration used as a tool to balance the economy........Though I hasten to add not as tool to drive down wages for several already low paid workforces. Our immigration level should definitely take account of our housing situation. As a country I truly feel we are sticking our collective heads in the sand over housing provision......We are widening the divide between people. Many who work just have no realistic chance of owning their home........The baby boomers had the cream of the chances and have screwed it all up for the next generations. But to go back to my original point, immigration can be positive if it is controlled and takes account of the host population instead of treating them like dumping grounds and culturally rapidly changing the nature of their living spaces......That's what 'freedom of movement' has given us. People talk about London as being a success story......But they ignore that many many people left London because of rapid change.....Many people whose families had lived there for many generations. reasonableness and the immigration debate aren't on the same page. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Sep 2015 1.01pm) London in now rated by respected institutions as the top triple A* city on the globe and the most dynamic followed in second by New York. Something has gone right there since we were kids. It's a lot more varied colourful and interesting and, unfortunately, expensive but it is truly an amazing metropolis. The people make it fascinating imo. Respected by whom? Might be ok for wealthy people and visitors, pretty awful for ordinary people. I hear they are are fleeing to the likes of Devon. My London friends are "ordinary people". They love the place. But I will tell them they are wrong and it is pretty awful for them. Depends where you go in London. Some of its a sthole, other parts are ok and some parts are really nice. Certainly immigration is neither negative or positive, its both, there are pro's and cons, and even some of those pros and cons vary according to how immigration affects you. The truth is that if you live in a South London say Bermondsey estate or council block, then its probably a negative experience immigration and refugees, but then you're already in one of the most negative aspects of London life anyhow. Its just now you can blame the immigrants, rather than the Housing Crisis, prices in London etc. But in truth, even without the refugees, you're still in a sty place, that's always been sty. Places like Thorton Heath, Peckham haven't really been made worse by Immigration and Ayslum, they were always st. The last paragraph is either based on ignorance or hopeless devotion to multiculturalism. Unfortunately immigration has made places like Thornton Heath worse. There are separate communities living in the same area who view each other as from the moon. The area is far less looked after than 25 years ago, largely due to the number of transient inhabitants. There is more crime and no go areas. Places that brough the community together, like pubs, are now shut down. Unfortunately you don't get to see this unless you live in the area. My family come from the area, Thorton Heath has always been a st hole, Croydon has always been crap as has Peckham. They've also always had high crime rates. They're worse now definitely, but its not just immigration, the death of Industry in the UK really created problems of low wages and unemployment in South London. The crime is different to some extent, but South London has always had a problem with Gangs, right back since the 60s. The Flying Squad identified South London as being a principle location of threat for Armed Robbery. People tend to romanticize the past. Violence was common place in the 70s and 80s, in a way it isn't now, and it was largely much more tolerated. Youths fighting youths in the streets isn't a new thing. As for the pubs shutting down, that's a phenomena that has even affect largely white areas. Even out in the countryside of Oxfordshire and Berkshire, we are seeing the same thing. I find your position on this ignorant and patronising. You don't live in the area yet you are telling those of us that do that we are wrong to say that immigration has made he area ster. Even immigrants who live there say this. Gang culture is completely different from the sixties so your 'wiki fact' is also wrong. It's unbelievable that you choose this line of response when the truth is so opposite from it. I'm relying on what my family who lived in the area, and still live in the area have told me about it. Basically its worse, but it was always bad. I spend quite a bit of time in and around the area, and my wife lived up in Eltham and Catford for about six years before moving to Reading. I don't have to live there to know its st, my family moved away from Peckham and Bermondsey in the 50s and 60s because it was a crime ridden st hole and they could afford to move to a council estate in Dulwich. I never said it wasn't stier or worse, but that those areas have always been st anyhow. Pouring more and more immigrants into the area hasn't helped. Thank god the 80s wasn't full of gangs of youths and men turning up places kicking the st out of each other and occasionally killing one another. I must have imagined that football hooliganism that was going on. Basically, these areas are stholes that have only gotten s*tier over time, and generally people who can afford to move away. You have no practical experience and are spouting rubbish, which is patronising at best. Give it up. Edited by matt_himself (09 Sep 2015 3.29pm) Right. Ok, nothing much more to say is there then. You like the area clearly, I hate it. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 09 Sep 15 3.38pm

Quote matt_himself at 09 Sep 2015 3.29pm