I vote Conservative but..

Gay Marriage is a dead issue. It's moving beyond being 'left or right'. Conservatives will come to be about as concerned with it as interracial marriage.

Again, overseas budget, not really a firm left or right issue.

Aging population, so too right the NHS budget is protected or increased. Besides, for better of worse the elderly are of more value as a voting demographic so it's inevitable.

Fair point on the armed forces. We're a shadow of what we used to be. It's a shame but as we see from the Syria drone situation we're fighting smarter. Technology trumps boots on the ground now.

Conservatives have not become left wing. There's always UKIP for people on nostalgia overload.

Edited by oldcodger (09 Sep 2015 12.50pm)

Who are these left wingers who want open access. I thought they wanted the UK to consider people for Asylum who had fled Syria. That isn't open access. The UK turns down 59% of Asylum Applications.

Its not just the left wing. I noticed that a right wing government has being providing money to Syrian refugee relief and already given 5155 Syrians Asylum since the war started.

Have the Conservative party become left wing?

I mentioned Yvette Cooper. Whereas Britain will accept 20,000 refugess by 2020 the other day she called for 50,000.

As for the 'Left Wing', I really don't have to add to what has already been mentioned in this debate.

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Hmm, so 50,000 over 5 years is 'open access'. Oh boy, you certainly can't count Willo.

To be clear, around 600,000 people enter the UK every year and net migration is 318,000. Of those entering the UK, around 200,000 come to study and largely should leave again.

Of the 400,000 left, 24,000 came seeking asylum. A similar number to the volume of expatriated Brits that return home each year.

So by my reckoning Comrade Ms Cooper is asking that we increase our asylum seeker numbers by 42% and our long-term immigration numbers by 2.5% per annum.

On the other hand Germany has around a million immigrants a year but it's net migration (due to leavers) is around 400,000. It intends to take a further 500,000 per year. This makes sense for it as it has a falling population and strong economy. Note that a part of its approach is to get the early migrants who tend to be richer and better educated. Clever old Germany.

Edited by Mapletree (09 Sep 2015 12.53pm)

People tend to romanticize the past. Violence was common place in the 70s and 80s, in a way it isn't now, and it was largely much more tolerated. Youths fighting youths in the streets isn't a new thing.

As for the pubs shutting down, that's a phenomena that has even affect largely white areas. Even out in the countryside of Oxfordshire and Berkshire, we are seeing the same thing.

I find your position on this ignorant and patronising.

You don't live in the area yet you are telling those of us that do that we are wrong to say that immigration has made he area s***ter. Even immigrants who live there say this.

Gang culture is completely different from the sixties so your 'wiki fact' is also wrong.

It's unbelievable that you choose this line of response when the truth is so opposite from it.

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Which part of Croydon do you live in Matt? I have said before on this forum that anywhere South of the centre of Croydon is not a sh&thole and the crime rates are extremely low. I do wish people would stop dissing Croydon.

By the way, nothing wrong with much of Thornton Heath when I was a kid but Selhurst had a reputation. No doubt parts of our manor have become nastier in my life time. I ABSOLUTELY would not expect Syrians to make it worse, they are a good bunch. But we did get stuffed with the dodgiest b*stards from many countries, like Yardies, Turkish gangsters, Tamil gangs and Triads. Maybe we could change the discussion to the management of criminals, not 'keeping out Johnny Foreigner'.

Edited by Mapletree (09 Sep 2015 1.02pm)

This is a pointless discussion really. If the Tories had abolished the monarchy yesterday, you would still call that a right wing action simply because the Tories did it. Of course the Conservative Party is broadly speaking 'right wing', but these things are relative. My original point was that it has moved to the left over the years, whereas Labour has moved to the right. Hence the lack of real choice between the major parties and the growing support for smaller parties. A Corbyn led Labour Party would redress this balance somewhat, but as Blair has clearly stated, you simply will not get elected if you are too far to the left.

By the way, the examples I cited certainly seem to have been too left for the ordinary Conservative Party Member: 59 percent opposed gay marriage; 67 percent opposed cuts to the armed forces; 63 percent opposed the refusal to extend restrictions on workers coming from Bulgaria and Romania; 67 percent opposed protecting the overseas aid budget.

mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

Don't know where you get your reference to 'coloureds' from? I don't necessarily agree with the policies I listed, I merely state them as evidence of the Conservative Party's gradual move to the left of where it was. As for Gay Marriage, I don't really care much about it, apart from when people who do care about it are persecuted.

mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

I find your position on this ignorant and patronising.

You don't live in the area yet you are telling those of us that do that we are wrong to say that immigration has made he area s***ter. Even immigrants who live there say this.

Gang culture is completely different from the sixties so your 'wiki fact' is also wrong.

It's unbelievable that you choose this line of response when the truth is so opposite from it.

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Which part of Croydon do you live in Matt? I have said before on this forum that anywhere South of the centre of Croydon is not a sh&thole and the crime rates are extremely low. I do wish people would stop dissing Croydon.

By the way, nothing wrong with much of Thornton Heath when I was a kid but Selhurst had a reputation. No doubt parts of our manor have become nastier in my life time. I ABSOLUTELY would not expect Syrians to make it worse, they are a good bunch. But we did get stuffed with the dodgiest b*stards from many countries, like Yardies, Turkish gangsters, Tamil gangs and Triads. Maybe we could change the discussion to the management of criminals, not 'keeping out Johnny Foreigner'.

Edited by Mapletree (09 Sep 2015 1.02pm)

I split my time between my place near Whitgift School and the Missus place which is just off of Whitehorse Road.

No where did I blame the Syrians for the problems in the area, so I don't know where you got that from.

I am blaming unmanaged immigration for destroying areas and communities. I am blaming various governments for encouraging immigration without forethought on how that would affect the people living isn't eh areas where immigration happened (both existing and immigrant communities have been affected). I am also, controversially, blaming some immigrant communities for not integrating with others and treating their living environment appallingly. Walk down from West Croydon Bus Atation to the Factory Lane Post Office and you will find all manner of shot piled up on the streets because the immigrant community could not give a stuff about the local environment.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02