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No more immigrants.

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leggedstruggle Flag Croydon 09 Sep 15 11.51am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Sep 2015 11.21am

Quote Willo at 09 Sep 2015 10.19am

The 20,000 Syrians who will come to the UK over the next 5 years will not begin to satisfy the likes of Yvette Cooper and some left-wingers who seemingly want open access for the world's suffering people.

Who are these left wingers who want open access. I thought they wanted the UK to consider people for Asylum who had fled Syria. That isn't open access. The UK turns down 59% of Asylum Applications.

Its not just the left wing. I noticed that a right wing government has being providing money to Syrian refugee relief and already given 5155 Syrians Asylum since the war started.

Have the Conservative party become left wing?

Yes, relative to where they used to be.


Edited by leggedstruggle (09 Sep 2015 11.51am)

 


mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 09 Sep 15 12.06pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Quote Willo at 09 Sep 2015 10.19am

The 20,000 Syrians who will come to the UK over the next 5 years will not begin to satisfy the likes of Yvette Cooper and some left-wingers who seemingly want open access for the world's suffering people.


Doing our bit and fair share is all that is wanted by this leftie. By my calculations we should be offering refugee status to between 80,000 and 90,000 Syrians given that one million have fled to Northern Europe. Serbia has taken 44,000 and even tiny old Holland has taken more than us.

The 20,000 over five effin' years is better than none but it is a cynical move by Cameron and others in order to be able to claim the UK government is "compassionate" after much pressure.

 


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pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 09 Sep 15 12.09pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 09 Sep 2015 11.51am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Sep 2015 11.21am

Quote Willo at 09 Sep 2015 10.19am

The 20,000 Syrians who will come to the UK over the next 5 years will not begin to satisfy the likes of Yvette Cooper and some left-wingers who seemingly want open access for the world's suffering people.

Who are these left wingers who want open access. I thought they wanted the UK to consider people for Asylum who had fled Syria. That isn't open access. The UK turns down 59% of Asylum Applications.

Its not just the left wing. I noticed that a right wing government has being providing money to Syrian refugee relief and already given 5155 Syrians Asylum since the war started.

Have the Conservative party become left wing?

Yes, relative to where they used to be.


Edited by leggedstruggle (09 Sep 2015 11.51am)

Examples???

 


"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

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Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 09 Sep 15 12.09pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Sep 2015 11.21am

Quote Willo at 09 Sep 2015 10.19am

The 20,000 Syrians who will come to the UK over the next 5 years will not begin to satisfy the likes of Yvette Cooper and some left-wingers who seemingly want open access for the world's suffering people.

Who are these left wingers who want open access. I thought they wanted the UK to consider people for Asylum who had fled Syria. That isn't open access. The UK turns down 59% of Asylum Applications.

Its not just the left wing. I noticed that a right wing government has being providing money to Syrian refugee relief and already given 5155 Syrians Asylum since the war started.

Have the Conservative party become left wing?


I mentioned Yvette Cooper. Whereas Britain will accept 20,000 refugess by 2020 the other day she called for 50,000.

As for the 'Left Wing', I really don't have to add to what has already been mentioned in this debate.


 

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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 09 Sep 15 12.11pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Quote leggedstruggle at 09 Sep 2015 11.51am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Sep 2015 11.21am

Quote Willo at 09 Sep 2015 10.19am

The 20,000 Syrians who will come to the UK over the next 5 years will not begin to satisfy the likes of Yvette Cooper and some left-wingers who seemingly want open access for the world's suffering people.

Who are these left wingers who want open access. I thought they wanted the UK to consider people for Asylum who had fled Syria. That isn't open access. The UK turns down 59% of Asylum Applications.

Its not just the left wing. I noticed that a right wing government has being providing money to Syrian refugee relief and already given 5155 Syrians Asylum since the war started.

Have the Conservative party become left wing?

Yes, relative to where they used to be.


Edited by leggedstruggle (09 Sep 2015 11.51am)

I assume you mean between 1979-90?


 


Big chest and massive boobs

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pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 09 Sep 15 12.16pm

Quote Willo at 09 Sep 2015 12.09pm

As for the 'Left Wing', I really don't have to add to what has already been mentioned in this debate.


Go on Willo elaborate.

 


"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

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pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 09 Sep 15 12.17pm

Quote Kermit8 at 09 Sep 2015 12.11pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 09 Sep 2015 11.51am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Sep 2015 11.21am

Quote Willo at 09 Sep 2015 10.19am

The 20,000 Syrians who will come to the UK over the next 5 years will not begin to satisfy the likes of Yvette Cooper and some left-wingers who seemingly want open access for the world's suffering people.

Who are these left wingers who want open access. I thought they wanted the UK to consider people for Asylum who had fled Syria. That isn't open access. The UK turns down 59% of Asylum Applications.

Its not just the left wing. I noticed that a right wing government has being providing money to Syrian refugee relief and already given 5155 Syrians Asylum since the war started.

Have the Conservative party become left wing?

Yes, relative to where they used to be.


Edited by leggedstruggle (09 Sep 2015 11.51am)

I assume you mean between 1979-90?



I think he is talking about the Tories circa 1780.

 


"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

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leggedstruggle Flag Croydon 09 Sep 15 12.32pm

Quote pefwin at 09 Sep 2015 12.09pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 09 Sep 2015 11.51am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Sep 2015 11.21am

Quote Willo at 09 Sep 2015 10.19am

The 20,000 Syrians who will come to the UK over the next 5 years will not begin to satisfy the likes of Yvette Cooper and some left-wingers who seemingly want open access for the world's suffering people.

Who are these left wingers who want open access. I thought they wanted the UK to consider people for Asylum who had fled Syria. That isn't open access. The UK turns down 59% of Asylum Applications.

Its not just the left wing. I noticed that a right wing government has being providing money to Syrian refugee relief and already given 5155 Syrians Asylum since the war started.

Have the Conservative party become left wing?

Yes, relative to where they used to be.


Edited by leggedstruggle (09 Sep 2015 11.51am)

Examples???

Gay Marriage; cuts to the armed forces; the refusal to extend restrictions on workers coming from Bulgaria and Romania; protecting the overseas aid budget; record £8 billion a year to the NHS for the next five years. Corbyn would be proud of all these policies.

 


mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 09 Sep 15 12.33pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (09 Sep 2015 12.35pm)

-

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (09 Sep 2015 12.39pm)

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 09 Sep 15 12.41pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 09 Sep 2015 11.51am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Sep 2015 11.21am

Quote Willo at 09 Sep 2015 10.19am

The 20,000 Syrians who will come to the UK over the next 5 years will not begin to satisfy the likes of Yvette Cooper and some left-wingers who seemingly want open access for the world's suffering people.

Who are these left wingers who want open access. I thought they wanted the UK to consider people for Asylum who had fled Syria. That isn't open access. The UK turns down 59% of Asylum Applications.

Its not just the left wing. I noticed that a right wing government has being providing money to Syrian refugee relief and already given 5155 Syrians Asylum since the war started.

Have the Conservative party become left wing?

Yes, relative to where they used to be.


Edited by leggedstruggle (09 Sep 2015 11.51am)

So no then, because its not relative to where you were, but your policy.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 09 Sep 15 12.44pm

Quote Willo at 09 Sep 2015 12.09pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Sep 2015 11.21am

Quote Willo at 09 Sep 2015 10.19am

The 20,000 Syrians who will come to the UK over the next 5 years will not begin to satisfy the likes of Yvette Cooper and some left-wingers who seemingly want open access for the world's suffering people.

Who are these left wingers who want open access. I thought they wanted the UK to consider people for Asylum who had fled Syria. That isn't open access. The UK turns down 59% of Asylum Applications.

Its not just the left wing. I noticed that a right wing government has being providing money to Syrian refugee relief and already given 5155 Syrians Asylum since the war started.

Have the Conservative party become left wing?


I mentioned Yvette Cooper. Whereas Britain will accept 20,000 refugess by 2020 the other day she called for 50,000.

As for the 'Left Wing', I really don't have to add to what has already been mentioned in this debate.


Of course during that period of time, around half a million British people will have emigrated. Restrict economic migration, to job specific necessity, and you could actually look at 500,000 in five years as sustainable figure.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 09 Sep 15 12.45pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Quote leggedstruggle at 09 Sep 2015 11.48am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Sep 2015 11.17am

Quote leggedstruggle at 09 Sep 2015 10.13am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Sep 2015 9.52am

Quote leggedstruggle at 09 Sep 2015 8.31am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Sep 2015 3.37pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 08 Sep 2015 3.13pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Sep 2015 1.00pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 08 Sep 2015 11.42am

I'm not sure there are too many ideology politicians left these days. It's all about votes and career.
Party politics is for students and the daft.

Let no one be under any illusion.They want your vote and your compliance. Anyone who wants a better life has to get it for themselves.

Such as by smuggling themselves into the UK?



Well yes of course.

It is in the end a matter of perspective.

My fear for Britain is that this is the thin end of the wedge in the longer term. Borders must be defended if the idea of nations is to be sustained.

I wish everyone else a better and more prosperous existence, but not at the expense of myself or my loved ones.

Thing is though, Asylum and refugees aren't actually a problem in terms of migration. In most years they're around 5% of the migration into a country, and eclipsed by the number of British people leaving each year. Definitely sustainable

What concerns me more is that people simply shift their arguments into more and more hypothetical and rhetorical based justifications.


Stats are a favorite tactic of the left. 5% this, 4% that, always presented as if we are starting from scratch, ignoring all the previous waves of immigration. Add up all these 5%s and 4%s and give us the true figures. The tactic is also used with things like terrorism; because you are more likely to be hit by a car than blown up by a religious fanatic, the significance of home terrorism is downplayed. All this is done for political reasons of course, to prop up the left's delusions.

You say that like using mathematical calculations and models is a bad thing.

From memory, cited elsewhere in this thread using rough figures:

In an average year, the number of Refugees gaining asylum in the UK is around 25,000 (the highest ever was in 2002 where 85,000 were granted asylum). In an average year 350,000 people emigrate or leave the UK, of which 155,000 are UK citizens.

In terms of terrorism, only one of the July 7th bombers was not born in the UK, and he was born in Jamaica (and move to the UK aged 5). It should be a concern for vetting and application, but it would be absurd to consider it a major issue. Even in the Lee Rigby murder both of the c**ts were British, neither were granted Asylum (in fact both were Christians who later converted). Only one of the two was born outside the UK, and he became a UK citizen on the basis of his parents moving to the UK to work (one was a nurse and the other in the Nigerian Diplomatic service).

None of them were ever granted Asylum.

So in terms of the 5% average, its actual fairly insignificant because in every year since recording on Asylum, more British Citizens have left the UK than asylum claims have been granted.

In terms of terrorism, none of those who've actually completed a terrorist attack have been granted Asylum (I don't have access to a complete list of every single UK terrorist so I can't look a plots that have been foiled or not resulted in the deaths).


I am not saying asylum seekers are terrorists which I think you are implying I am for some reason? Certainly all the recent homegrown terrorists have foreign 'hertitage' though. Another poster has pointed out that IS has stated that it will get terrorists into Europe posing as refugees. The playing down of the seriousness of terrorism is the UK is illustrated by a past poster on this very forum, who argued that the Rigby murder was insignificant as more people died from food allergies - surprised you have not used this 'mathematical calculation and model' in your smoke and mirrors.

A foreign heritage. So that's the issue, people with a foreign heritage are more likely, but incredibly unlikely, to be or become terrorists. Of course people with foreign heritage also end up joining the army, police (in fact far more do than become terrorists). But we should always focus on the negative aspect, rather than be realistic and look at it as a comparison.

Lee Rigby was murdered, by two British citizens, who converted to fundamentalist Islam. Its a tragedy, and rightly demonized, the issue I had with how quickly it was co-opted by the far right and certain media elements as being anything other than a very unusual, and uncommon event, into a cause of anti-migration and anti-Muslim propaganda.

Both prior to this were Christians (as was one of the July 7th terrorists) maybe we should consider Christians a risk? Nearly all of the UK Islamist terrorist murders in the UK, have involved someone who converted from Christianity. Of course we shouldn't it would be as absurd as basing any kind of policy decision about foreign heritage as being linked to terrorism.

Its also worth noting, that its an assumption that many of those fleeing Syria are Muslims.

The risk of IS infiltrating as refugees should be considered, obviously, but in terms of getting people into the UK, its a very poor tactic, given we believe 500-1000 British citizens are currently part of IS, and could fairly easily come back to the UK (being british, having passports etc). I suspect a large percentage are unknown to the authorities as being in Syria.

Plus the waiting isn't condusive to IS tactics (which tend not to be very long term elaborate plans like Al-Qaeda, but short term and based around people who've returned from IS territory). They could be in refugee camps for several years before being sent to a country which even then is unlikely to be a country involved in the bombing).

So recent terrorism has nothing top do with Islam. Perhaps, as Rod Liddle suggests, we should start calling them " ‘Really Bloody Horrible People Who Have Nothing To Do With Islam’? It’s a bit of a mouthful, I admit, but it gets the message across and it will please the imams over here. Or some of them, at least. So the next time something horrible happens, Huw Edwards could say: ‘And the BBC has just learned that this latest atrocity, in which 70 people were decapitated, has been carried out by Really Bloody Horrible People Who Have Nothing To Do With Islam. And now here’s Lizzie with all the sports news."

Should we consider all Christians a risk? No, none of them have carried out recent terrorist attacks, they have all been by people who are Muslim - recent converts or not. But of course it has nothing to do with Islam.

The old reasoning, "Not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims", is fair comment, but in practical terms that means that you are demonising the 99% of Muslims who are innocent.

The problem is with religion itself not the religious.

If ISIL just happened to be Christian fundamentalists would they have anything to do with other Christians ? Would we blame all of them ?

This is partly a religious issue and one reason why many were reluctant to allow large numbers of Muslims here in the first place, but we must all recognise that ISIL is an enemy to all but themselves.

 

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