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Cameron does a Blair
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 Stuk  Top half 08 Sep 15 3.02pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Sep 2015 2.59pm
Quote gambler at 08 Sep 2015 2.44pm
Quote jcreedy at 08 Sep 2015 2.36pm
Quote bright&wright at 08 Sep 2015 1.01pm
And no, surely they'd have hate and loathing for the terrorists that caused their deaths, not the UK which acted to protect it's people? Even if the other two in the car are innocent, they're travelling with suspected terrorists - its regrettable, but two for two is probably acceptable. But the key is proving that they are actually terrorists, and involved in plots against the UK which the strikes prevented. The problem comes when you then just strike any collateral damage target to get one or two suspects, and end up taking out whole families, wedding parties etc, and then decide that its all 'classified' national security information, so you can continue to bomb loosely defined suspects. When the state acts in a manner that's quasi-legal, it has to have an independent body to which it answers for each and every case.
Optimistic as ever |
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| susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 08 Sep 15 3.51pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Sep 2015 2.50pm
Quote susmik at 08 Sep 2015 2.18pm
Does it really matter as long as they are not around to kill and maim people. Lets hope a few more go the same way. At least our prime minister had the guts to OK the drone strikes where the labourites just want to sweep it under the table. They should be ashamed of themselves as due to their vote against Syrian strikes there are thousands and thousands of people fleeing their country and invading the European union! Yeah it does matter, because sooner or later if you don't follow your own rules you end up defining targets in looser and looser sense, and you're killing people who might or might not be the enemy or you think probably are. Look at the US and its torture, abduction and detention of suspected Terrorists. It went very quickly from 'key known targets' to people who just had the misfortunate to be in the wrong place, at the wrong time or have similar names. Nothing against killing the right people. It just that when the state sponsors the assassination of individual in another country, its probably better to have good though oversight and confirmation, than to just give them a free hand and take their word for it. When someone acts in self defense, we expect them to demonstrate it was reasonable to do so. So to the state.
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
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| radsyrendot From Coventry now in Leicester 08 Sep 15 3.53pm |
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Kill them all ...born here or not
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 08 Sep 15 4.03pm |
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Quote susmik at 08 Sep 2015 3.51pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Sep 2015 2.50pm
Quote susmik at 08 Sep 2015 2.18pm
Does it really matter as long as they are not around to kill and maim people. Lets hope a few more go the same way. At least our prime minister had the guts to OK the drone strikes where the labourites just want to sweep it under the table. They should be ashamed of themselves as due to their vote against Syrian strikes there are thousands and thousands of people fleeing their country and invading the European union! Yeah it does matter, because sooner or later if you don't follow your own rules you end up defining targets in looser and looser sense, and you're killing people who might or might not be the enemy or you think probably are. Look at the US and its torture, abduction and detention of suspected Terrorists. It went very quickly from 'key known targets' to people who just had the misfortunate to be in the wrong place, at the wrong time or have similar names. Nothing against killing the right people. It just that when the state sponsors the assassination of individual in another country, its probably better to have good though oversight and confirmation, than to just give them a free hand and take their word for it. When someone acts in self defense, we expect them to demonstrate it was reasonable to do so. So to the state.
The side that doesn't end up having to pretend its right because it killed less innocent people than the other side. Or had to rename torture 'intensive interrogation' and hidden its own failings behind an abuse of National Security laws. I mean its not like we didn't go down this 'Trust the Intelligence, Trust my word' route with Tony Blair and the Iraq war; and that was a resounding success. But sure, lets just trust Cameron and co, and the Intelligence agencies word for it.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| chris123 hove actually 08 Sep 15 4.10pm |
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Quote susmik at 08 Sep 2015 3.51pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Sep 2015 2.50pm
Quote susmik at 08 Sep 2015 2.18pm
Does it really matter as long as they are not around to kill and maim people. Lets hope a few more go the same way. At least our prime minister had the guts to OK the drone strikes where the labourites just want to sweep it under the table. They should be ashamed of themselves as due to their vote against Syrian strikes there are thousands and thousands of people fleeing their country and invading the European union! Yeah it does matter, because sooner or later if you don't follow your own rules you end up defining targets in looser and looser sense, and you're killing people who might or might not be the enemy or you think probably are. Look at the US and its torture, abduction and detention of suspected Terrorists. It went very quickly from 'key known targets' to people who just had the misfortunate to be in the wrong place, at the wrong time or have similar names. Nothing against killing the right people. It just that when the state sponsors the assassination of individual in another country, its probably better to have good though oversight and confirmation, than to just give them a free hand and take their word for it. When someone acts in self defense, we expect them to demonstrate it was reasonable to do so. So to the state.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 08 Sep 15 4.13pm |
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Quote radsyrendot at 08 Sep 2015 3.53pm
Kill them all ...born here or not I don't have a problem with that. But you need to make sure that you're actually killing them, and not people who might be them, have the same name, belong to a faction that the guy giving you the intelligence is in oppostion to. one of the big problems that occurred in Afghanistan was it was remarkably hard to tell who the enemy was, and you couldn't really rely on other tribal factions to be entirely honest about who they were either, because their enemy wasn't necessarily the same as your enemy. As the US discovered, different factions would identify their tribal enemies as being Taliban, the US would end up bombing the s**t out of them, and they'd end up killing US service men and helping the actual Taliban. Often the problem with airstrikes is that it actually ends up killing the wrong people sometimes, and sometimes it kills a lot of the wrong people, and that generally means a lot of very angry friends and family, who a ideal recruits for the Taliban / IS etc
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Catfish Burgess Hill 08 Sep 15 4.30pm |
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Any update on Jeremy Corbyn's announcement praising the RAF yet?
Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial |
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| matt_himself Matataland 08 Sep 15 4.40pm |
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I think the government has missed a trick here. If they sent out drones to hunt down Piers Morgan, Katie Hopkins, anyone connected with XFactor, Owen Jones, that Chinese fella who does fashion shows and who 'bowls from the Pavillion end', the man from the Go Compare advert and Gus Poyet at the same time as hunting ISIS terrorists also with drones, no one would care about parliamentary approval (not that they should - the establishment always knows what's best for us) and would be celebrating the death of some of the most risible threats to a traditional British way of life plus two ISIS looney's killed as well.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| matt_himself Matataland 08 Sep 15 4.42pm |
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Quote Catfish at 08 Sep 2015 4.30pm
Any update on Jeremy Corbyn's announcement praising the RAF yet?
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| DanH SW2 08 Sep 15 4.57pm |
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Since when has being anti-war been something to mock?
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| susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 08 Sep 15 4.58pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Sep 2015 4.03pm
Quote susmik at 08 Sep 2015 3.51pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Sep 2015 2.50pm
Quote susmik at 08 Sep 2015 2.18pm
Does it really matter as long as they are not around to kill and maim people. Lets hope a few more go the same way. At least our prime minister had the guts to OK the drone strikes where the labourites just want to sweep it under the table. They should be ashamed of themselves as due to their vote against Syrian strikes there are thousands and thousands of people fleeing their country and invading the European union! Yeah it does matter, because sooner or later if you don't follow your own rules you end up defining targets in looser and looser sense, and you're killing people who might or might not be the enemy or you think probably are. Look at the US and its torture, abduction and detention of suspected Terrorists. It went very quickly from 'key known targets' to people who just had the misfortunate to be in the wrong place, at the wrong time or have similar names. Nothing against killing the right people. It just that when the state sponsors the assassination of individual in another country, its probably better to have good though oversight and confirmation, than to just give them a free hand and take their word for it. When someone acts in self defense, we expect them to demonstrate it was reasonable to do so. So to the state.
The side that doesn't end up having to pretend its right because it killed less innocent people than the other side. Or had to rename torture 'intensive interrogation' and hidden its own failings behind an abuse of National Security laws. I mean its not like we didn't go down this 'Trust the Intelligence, Trust my word' route with Tony Blair and the Iraq war; and that was a resounding success. But sure, lets just trust Cameron and co, and the Intelligence agencies word for it. I did not ask for your book on "I am always right and what I say goes" the simple question was "What side are you on" which has two answers. 1. On the side of our state security or 2. On the side of the killers? Simples!!!
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
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| matt_himself Matataland 08 Sep 15 5.10pm |
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Quote DanH at 08 Sep 2015 4.57pm
Since when has being anti-war been something to mock?
However, we are in a war with groups like ISIS who do not recognise international law. Therefore acts such as using the drones to killed those who security services believe are intending to commit terrorism in Britain is justified. Edited by matt_himself (08 Sep 2015 5.14pm)
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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