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Labour Leadership - Bald men fighting over a comb?
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 ghosteagle  21 Jul 15 1.42pm |
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Quote Johnny Eagles at 21 Jul 2015 10.10am
I'm hoping Corbyn's supporters' second votes go to Cooper, not Burnham, as I've got a tenner on her to win. She's sticking in there at 7-2 (she was 3-1 when I bet on her) but Corbyn's shortened to 11-2!
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| Kingvagabond London 21 Jul 15 1.56pm |
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Give me a true lefty like Corbyn over anyone else in the party right now. t I would have loved the opportunity to vote for Alan Johnson. Shame the secret service are horny tossers. He would have made a great leader. Edited by Kingvagabond (21 Jul 2015 2.01pm) Edited by Kingvagabond (21 Jul 2015 2.05pm)
Part of Holmesdale Radio: The Next Generation Quote cornwalls palace at 24 Oct 2012 9.37am He was right!!!...and we killed him!!... poor Orpinton Eagles........ |
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| OknotOK Cockfosters, London 21 Jul 15 2.15pm |
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Quote Johnny Eagles at 21 Jul 2015 10.08am
Is it so altruistic to vote that rich people to pay more tax? From my experience of self-righteous lefties, their 'unselfishness' usually involves a lot of loud bleating about "injustice" on social media and not much else besides. Most of the people I know who actually spend their free time helping homeless people or whatever are quiet, Christian, usually fairly conservative types (small 'c'). It's pretty altruistic if you're rich and it means you paying more tax. The above is a parody of a post. There are thousands of "lefties" who give their time - paid or otherwise - and do work that is genuinely altruistic. Most of the voluntary sector is full of people who are "lefties" who work their ar$es off for very little financial reward because they feel it is the right thing to do. And plenty campaign more passively or look to raise awareness through social media because they don't have the time or the resources to commit otherwise. It's still better than nothing. As for Corbyn, I just don't think (even with his apparent surge which is almost impossible to truly measure) he has the maths to support a win. Assuming the "polls" are right, Liz Kendall will drop out first round and then her votes will be split between Cooper and Burnham. Which should be enough to take them both above him. I would have thought he would have benefited more from Corbyn 2nd choice votes but to be honest it is far from clear as polling of the electorate for the leadership is very difficult.
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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Johnny Eagles  berlin 21 Jul 15 2.31pm |
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Quote OknotOK at 21 Jul 2015 2.15pm
Quote Johnny Eagles at 21 Jul 2015 10.08am
Is it so altruistic to vote that rich people to pay more tax? From my experience of self-righteous lefties, their 'unselfishness' usually involves a lot of loud bleating about "injustice" on social media and not much else besides. Most of the people I know who actually spend their free time helping homeless people or whatever are quiet, Christian, usually fairly conservative types (small 'c'). It's pretty altruistic if you're rich and it means you paying more tax. The above is a parody of a post. There are thousands of "lefties" who give their time - paid or otherwise - and do work that is genuinely altruistic. Most of the voluntary sector is full of people who are "lefties" who work their ar$es off for very little financial reward because they feel it is the right thing to do. And plenty campaign more passively or look to raise awareness through social media because they don't have the time or the resources to commit otherwise. It's still better than nothing. As for Corbyn, I just don't think (even with his apparent surge which is almost impossible to truly measure) he has the maths to support a win. Assuming the "polls" are right, Liz Kendall will drop out first round and then her votes will be split between Cooper and Burnham. Which should be enough to take them both above him. I would have thought he would have benefited more from Corbyn 2nd choice votes but to be honest it is far from clear as polling of the electorate for the leadership is very difficult. I was careful to phrase it in terms of the people I know. I wasn't trying to claim that in the world in general lefties aren't capable of altruism! There is, among people I know, a big discrepancy between the amount of self-righteous crowing for "the rich" or "the government" to do more --- and believe me, most of the brainless excrement I have read on social media platforms does NOT count as "campaigning" or "raising awareness" --- and the amount that these people actually DO to improve the world. The world is full of hypocrites. It's human nature. But I find the hypocrites who claim (and apparently genuinely believe) that they are "slightly less selfish than other people" by virtue of holding a vaguely leftish view particularly obnoxious, which is why I felt impelled to reply to coulsdoneagle.
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| Stirlingsays 21 Jul 15 2.33pm |
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Quote OknotOK at 21 Jul 2015 2.15pm
Quote Johnny Eagles at 21 Jul 2015 10.08am
Is it so altruistic to vote that rich people to pay more tax? From my experience of self-righteous lefties, their 'unselfishness' usually involves a lot of loud bleating about "injustice" on social media and not much else besides. Most of the people I know who actually spend their free time helping homeless people or whatever are quiet, Christian, usually fairly conservative types (small 'c'). It's pretty altruistic if you're rich and it means you paying more tax. The above is a parody of a post. There are thousands of "lefties" who give their time - paid or otherwise - and do work that is genuinely altruistic. Most of the voluntary sector is full of people who are "lefties" who work their ar$es off for very little financial reward because they feel it is the right thing to do. And plenty campaign more passively or look to raise awareness through social media because they don't have the time or the resources to commit otherwise. It's still better than nothing. As for Corbyn, I just don't think (even with his apparent surge which is almost impossible to truly measure) he has the maths to support a win. Assuming the "polls" are right, Liz Kendall will drop out first round and then her votes will be split between Cooper and Burnham. Which should be enough to take them both above him. I would have thought he would have benefited more from Corbyn 2nd choice votes but to be honest it is far from clear as polling of the electorate for the leadership is very difficult.
Many people in the voluntary sector won't be political at all....Many would have voted for different parties at different times. There will be lefties and righties. No political bias has the high ground on helping people. It's all a bit silly.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Johnny Eagles berlin 21 Jul 15 2.46pm |
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I've now put a sneaky tenner on Liz Truss to become the next Tory leader. She's 34-1! TBF, she's probably 34-1 for a reason. And she's not even in the cabinet. Maybe I should hedge it with a sly tenner on BoJo. Maybe I should stop wasting my money by betting on politics.
...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread... |
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| OknotOK Cockfosters, London 21 Jul 15 2.48pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Jul 2015 2.33pm
Quote OknotOK at 21 Jul 2015 2.15pm
Quote Johnny Eagles at 21 Jul 2015 10.08am
Is it so altruistic to vote that rich people to pay more tax? From my experience of self-righteous lefties, their 'unselfishness' usually involves a lot of loud bleating about "injustice" on social media and not much else besides. Most of the people I know who actually spend their free time helping homeless people or whatever are quiet, Christian, usually fairly conservative types (small 'c'). It's pretty altruistic if you're rich and it means you paying more tax. The above is a parody of a post. There are thousands of "lefties" who give their time - paid or otherwise - and do work that is genuinely altruistic. Most of the voluntary sector is full of people who are "lefties" who work their ar$es off for very little financial reward because they feel it is the right thing to do. And plenty campaign more passively or look to raise awareness through social media because they don't have the time or the resources to commit otherwise. It's still better than nothing. As for Corbyn, I just don't think (even with his apparent surge which is almost impossible to truly measure) he has the maths to support a win. Assuming the "polls" are right, Liz Kendall will drop out first round and then her votes will be split between Cooper and Burnham. Which should be enough to take them both above him. I would have thought he would have benefited more from Corbyn 2nd choice votes but to be honest it is far from clear as polling of the electorate for the leadership is very difficult.
Many people in the voluntary sector won't be political at all....Many would have voted for different parties at different times. There will be lefties and righties. No political bias has the high ground on helping people. It's all a bit silly. I accept that many in the voluntary sector will be either right wing or politically ambivalent, but I woudl stand behind an assessment that most working in the voluntary sector will consider themselves to be left wing/left of centre (although that wasn't entirely what I meant - I just phrased it poorly). That would just be based on 15+ years of personal experience. But I agree that no political group has the high ground. I was responding to a perceived (per JE's message an incorrect perception) idea that the left was somehow full of self-righteous individuals with no genuine altruism.
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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| OknotOK Cockfosters, London 21 Jul 15 2.51pm |
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Quote Johnny Eagles at 21 Jul 2015 2.46pm
I've now put a sneaky tenner on Liz Truss to become the next Tory leader. She's 34-1! TBF, she's probably 34-1 for a reason. And she's not even in the cabinet. Maybe I should hedge it with a sly tenner on BoJo. Maybe I should stop wasting my money by betting on politics.
Just waste your money on horses and football betting like thr est of us
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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| Stirlingsays 21 Jul 15 2.59pm |
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Quote OknotOK at 21 Jul 2015 2.48pm
Many people in the voluntary sector won't be political at all....Many would have voted for different parties at different times. There will be lefties and righties. No political bias has the high ground on helping people. It's all a bit silly. I accept that many in the voluntary sector will be either right wing or politically ambivalent, but I woudl stand behind an assessment that most working in the voluntary sector will consider themselves to be left wing/left of centre (although that wasn't entirely what I meant - I just phrased it poorly). That would just be based on 15+ years of personal experience. But I agree that no political group has the high ground. I was responding to a perceived (per JE's message an incorrect perception) idea that the left was somehow full of self-righteous individuals with no genuine altruism.
Maybe it's more to do with the particular charity sector or area you're talking about. As for self righteous individuals.....both sides of the political divide contain their fair share of them.....Herman isn't wrong about self righteous hypocritical lefties but of course there are plenty of self righteous selfish right wingers as well. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jul 2015 2.59pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| OknotOK Cockfosters, London 21 Jul 15 3.05pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Jul 2015 2.59pm
Quote OknotOK at 21 Jul 2015 2.48pm
Many people in the voluntary sector won't be political at all....Many would have voted for different parties at different times. There will be lefties and righties. No political bias has the high ground on helping people. It's all a bit silly. I accept that many in the voluntary sector will be either right wing or politically ambivalent, but I woudl stand behind an assessment that most working in the voluntary sector will consider themselves to be left wing/left of centre (although that wasn't entirely what I meant - I just phrased it poorly). That would just be based on 15+ years of personal experience. But I agree that no political group has the high ground. I was responding to a perceived (per JE's message an incorrect perception) idea that the left was somehow full of self-righteous individuals with no genuine altruism.
Quote
Well, I know a people in Church based charities and most of them aren't lefties at all. Maybe it's more to do with the particular charity sector or area you're talking about. As for self righteous individuals.....both sides of the political divide contain their fair share of them.....Herman isn't wrong about self righteous hypocritical lefties but of course there are plenty of self righteous selfish right wingers as well. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jul 2015 2.59pm) A fair point actually. As an unashamed atheist who has nothing to do with church, my experience and network of friends is based more on charities that are not religious based, where I presume (although given I don't have the same network I don't have anything to support it) are generally more conservative (with a small "c" ) at least. Edited by OknotOK (21 Jul 2015 3.07pm)
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 Jul 15 10.14am |
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Latest polls show Corbyn on course to win. I'm not sure why his opponents are just saying how awful it would be if he won rather than unpicking his policies with a cogent argument.
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| npn Crowborough 22 Jul 15 10.20am |
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Quote nickgusset at 22 Jul 2015 10.14am
Latest polls show Corbyn on course to win. I'm not sure why his opponents are just saying how awful it would be if he won rather than unpicking his policies with a cogent argument.
On the one hand, it will be nice to see Labour move left to give genuine alternatives to the kind of 'conservative-lite' they've become in the search for votes from the middle ground. On the other hand, any government needs a strong opposition to keep it in check, and I suspect a Corbyn-led Labour party will fall back quite a long way before any comeback and the next election (at least) would be something of a landslide.
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