CONservative government incompetence.

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CONservative government incompetence.

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Hrolf The Ganger 06 Dec 23 8.50am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle What you want to happen would not “redress” anything! It would make things much worse. That is you closing your eyes to the realities in Britain in 2023! I am not either trying to justify anything at all. I am describing what is, not what might have been and being practical and honest about what can be done and not spouting the impractical solutions of an angry man. I heard a piece on Radio 4 this morning from those in the care industry about the likely impact on them of the new restrictions on overseas carers bringing family with them. Most of those interviewed have brought their spouses over, after a few months here to get sorted out, and they too are working as carers. The result has been that care homes are now better staffed which in turn has unblocked hospital beds. The industry representatives are very concerned this will now stop and put consequential pressure on the NHS. This then is a political comfort blanket thrown to people like you which may in time mean you will not get a hospital bed when you need one. So your reason not to end our reliance on foreign staff is that we have lots of foreign staff? Good thinking. We have to put systems in place to increase the use of British workers. The problems in care do not justify the millions of people who have arrived here in the last decade. Nothing does. You are an apologist for the foolish short sightedness of self serving politicians. People like you allow them to get way with it.
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Hrolf The Ganger

06 Dec 23 8.50am

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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

What you want to happen would not “redress” anything! It would make things much worse. That is you closing your eyes to the realities in Britain in 2023!

I am not either trying to justify anything at all. I am describing what is, not what might have been and being practical and honest about what can be done and not spouting the impractical solutions of an angry man.

I heard a piece on Radio 4 this morning from those in the care industry about the likely impact on them of the new restrictions on overseas carers bringing family with them. Most of those interviewed have brought their spouses over, after a few months here to get sorted out, and they too are working as carers. The result has been that care homes are now better staffed which in turn has unblocked hospital beds. The industry representatives are very concerned this will now stop and put consequential pressure on the NHS. This then is a political comfort blanket thrown to people like you which may in time mean you will not get a hospital bed when you need one.

So your reason not to end our reliance on foreign staff is that we have lots of foreign staff?

Good thinking.

We have to put systems in place to increase the use of British workers.

The problems in care do not justify the millions of people who have arrived here in the last decade. Nothing does.

You are an apologist for the foolish short sightedness of self serving politicians. People like you allow them to get way with it.

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steeleye20 Croydon 06 Dec 23 1.26pm
'If they wanted to remove undesirables from the UK their Rwanda policy has been successful - they have sent 3 Home Secretaries there already'. Starmer more relaxed and confident these days basically he is going to let Sunak drive off a cliff if he wants. It looks like any kind of logic is not present on Rwanda, so he probably will.
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steeleye20

Croydon 06 Dec 23 1.26pm

'If they wanted to remove undesirables from the UK their Rwanda policy has been successful - they have sent 3 Home Secretaries there already'.

Starmer more relaxed and confident these days basically he is going to let Sunak drive off a cliff if he wants.

It looks like any kind of logic is not present on Rwanda, so he probably will.

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Hrolf The Ganger 06 Dec 23 2.04pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 'If they wanted to remove undesirables from the UK their Rwanda policy has been successful - they have sent 3 Home Secretaries there already'. Starmer more relaxed and confident these days basically he is going to let Sunak drive off a cliff if he wants. It looks like any kind of logic is not present on Rwanda, so he probably will. Lefties doing what they always do. Putting their own ambitions before the good of the country. Rwanda will not mean a huge exodus of illegals, but it is a deterrent and a stepping stone to the kind of policy that all European countries need to adopt. They must rewrite the rules around migration and protect themselves from the flood that will be coming their way over the coming decades. To do anything else would be a crime against their own people.
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Hrolf The Ganger

06 Dec 23 2.04pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

'If they wanted to remove undesirables from the UK their Rwanda policy has been successful - they have sent 3 Home Secretaries there already'.

Starmer more relaxed and confident these days basically he is going to let Sunak drive off a cliff if he wants.

It looks like any kind of logic is not present on Rwanda, so he probably will.

Lefties doing what they always do. Putting their own ambitions before the good of the country.

Rwanda will not mean a huge exodus of illegals, but it is a deterrent and a stepping stone to the kind of policy that all European countries need to adopt.
They must rewrite the rules around migration and protect themselves from the flood that will be coming their way over the coming decades. To do anything else would be a crime against their own people.

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Badger11 Beckenham 06 Dec 23 2.11pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 'If they wanted to remove undesirables from the UK their Rwanda policy has been successful - they have sent 3 Home Secretaries there already'. Starmer more relaxed and confident these days basically he is going to let Sunak drive off a cliff if he wants. It looks like any kind of logic is not present on Rwanda, so he probably will. LOL One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 06 Dec 23 2.11pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

'If they wanted to remove undesirables from the UK their Rwanda policy has been successful - they have sent 3 Home Secretaries there already'.

Starmer more relaxed and confident these days basically he is going to let Sunak drive off a cliff if he wants.

It looks like any kind of logic is not present on Rwanda, so he probably will.

LOL

One more point

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Dec 23 3.28pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger So your reason not to end our reliance on foreign staff is that we have lots of foreign staff? Good thinking. We have to put systems in place to increase the use of British workers. The problems in care do not justify the millions of people who have arrived here in the last decade. Nothing does. You are an apologist for the foolish short sightedness of self serving politicians. People like you allow them to get way with it. Do you actually read my posts? Or are you so mired in prejudice that they get a response come what may? Many times recently I have argued for what you suggest in your third line. I have also pointed out it requires a lot of both money and time. You don’t just turn a tap and get wiling, well trained workers pouring out! So in the meantime the economy and health service need to continue bringing in the people that’s needed. It’s not complicated. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (06 Dec 2023 3.30pm) For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 06 Dec 23 3.28pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

So your reason not to end our reliance on foreign staff is that we have lots of foreign staff?

Good thinking.

We have to put systems in place to increase the use of British workers.

The problems in care do not justify the millions of people who have arrived here in the last decade. Nothing does.

You are an apologist for the foolish short sightedness of self serving politicians. People like you allow them to get way with it.

Do you actually read my posts? Or are you so mired in prejudice that they get a response come what may?

Many times recently I have argued for what you suggest in your third line.

I have also pointed out it requires a lot of both money and time. You don’t just turn a tap and get wiling, well trained workers pouring out!

So in the meantime the economy and health service need to continue bringing in the people that’s needed. It’s not complicated.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (06 Dec 2023 3.30pm)

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Hrolf The Ganger 06 Dec 23 3.44pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Do you actually read my posts? Or are you so mired in prejudice that they get a response come what may? Many times recently I have argued for what you suggest in your third line. I have also pointed out it requires a lot of both money and time. You don’t just turn a tap and get wiling, well trained workers pouring out! So in the meantime the economy and health service need to continue bringing in the people that’s needed. It’s not complicated. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (06 Dec 2023 3.30pm) Do you read your own posts? You are arguing against something I never said and then repeating what I said in so many words. Yes there needs to be a period of adjustment which will require a determination by politicians to see it through. Meanwhile, 700k net people arriving here is not acceptable. Half that amount is not acceptable. We need immigration back at the levels it was pre Tony Blair. The country coped just fine back then and all that will be achieved by rapidly increasing the population will be that we need even more workers to service their needs. It is, as I have said many times, a self defeating policy.
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Hrolf The Ganger

06 Dec 23 3.44pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Do you actually read my posts? Or are you so mired in prejudice that they get a response come what may?

Many times recently I have argued for what you suggest in your third line.

I have also pointed out it requires a lot of both money and time. You don’t just turn a tap and get wiling, well trained workers pouring out!

So in the meantime the economy and health service need to continue bringing in the people that’s needed. It’s not complicated.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (06 Dec 2023 3.30pm)

Do you read your own posts?

You are arguing against something I never said and then repeating what I said in so many words.

Yes there needs to be a period of adjustment which will require a determination by politicians to see it through.

Meanwhile, 700k net people arriving here is not acceptable. Half that amount is not acceptable.
We need immigration back at the levels it was pre Tony Blair.
The country coped just fine back then and all that will be achieved by rapidly increasing the population will be that we need even more workers to service their needs.

It is, as I have said many times, a self defeating policy.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Dec 23 11.16pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Do you read your own posts? You are arguing against something I never said and then repeating what I said in so many words. Yes there needs to be a period of adjustment which will require a determination by politicians to see it through. Meanwhile, 700k net people arriving here is not acceptable. Half that amount is not acceptable. We need immigration back at the levels it was pre Tony Blair. The country coped just fine back then and all that will be achieved by rapidly increasing the population will be that we need even more workers to service their needs. It is, as I have said many times, a self defeating policy. Any period of adjustment will take years, probably decades to bear fruit. We don’t have either the necessary training facilities, the trained trainers or the apprenticeship places. Our education system would need to be overhauled to ensure we produce young people with the knowledge and desire to undertake the kinds of jobs that overseas workers currently fill. Then the wages we pay for doing those jobs must be sufficient to ensure that people want to do them. Those are massive tasks which will require a very buoyant economy to pay for them. Or the acceptance of lower living standards. Good luck to any party that thinks the public will vote for that. Doctors get very well paid, so why do we have such a shortage of locally trained ones? It takes 7 years of training, and a massive student loan debt to be qualified. You either have to have well off parents or rare single minded determination to risk that. Stating what you want is easy. We all want the boats to be stopped and illegal immigration curtailed. Achieving what you want is the difficult bit. Which you are totally unrealistic about by just blaming the politicians. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 06 Dec 23 11.16pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Do you read your own posts?

You are arguing against something I never said and then repeating what I said in so many words.

Yes there needs to be a period of adjustment which will require a determination by politicians to see it through.

It is, as I have said many times, a self defeating policy.

Any period of adjustment will take years, probably decades to bear fruit. We don’t have either the necessary training facilities, the trained trainers or the apprenticeship places. Our education system would need to be overhauled to ensure we produce young people with the knowledge and desire to undertake the kinds of jobs that overseas workers currently fill. Then the wages we pay for doing those jobs must be sufficient to ensure that people want to do them. Those are massive tasks which will require a very buoyant economy to pay for them. Or the acceptance of lower living standards. Good luck to any party that thinks the public will vote for that.

Doctors get very well paid, so why do we have such a shortage of locally trained ones? It takes 7 years of training, and a massive student loan debt to be qualified. You either have to have well off parents or rare single minded determination to risk that.

Stating what you want is easy. We all want the boats to be stopped and illegal immigration curtailed. Achieving what you want is the difficult bit. Which you are totally unrealistic about by just blaming the politicians.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Hrolf The Ganger 07 Dec 23 9.15am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Any period of adjustment will take years, probably decades to bear fruit. We don’t have either the necessary training facilities, the trained trainers or the apprenticeship places. Our education system would need to be overhauled to ensure we produce young people with the knowledge and desire to undertake the kinds of jobs that overseas workers currently fill. Then the wages we pay for doing those jobs must be sufficient to ensure that people want to do them. Those are massive tasks which will require a very buoyant economy to pay for them. Or the acceptance of lower living standards. Good luck to any party that thinks the public will vote for that. Doctors get very well paid, so why do we have such a shortage of locally trained ones? It takes 7 years of training, and a massive student loan debt to be qualified. You either have to have well off parents or rare single minded determination to risk that. Stating what you want is easy. We all want the boats to be stopped and illegal immigration curtailed. Achieving what you want is the difficult bit. Which you are totally unrealistic about by just blaming the politicians. So to summarise, we shouldn't bother to do anything because it will be hard. Good stuff. If politicians are not to blame, who is? They created this problem in the first place. Parliament makes policy.
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Hrolf The Ganger

07 Dec 23 9.15am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

So to summarise, we shouldn't bother to do anything because it will be hard.

Good stuff.

If politicians are not to blame, who is?

They created this problem in the first place. Parliament makes policy.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 07 Dec 23 2.32pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger So to summarise, we shouldn't bother to do anything because it will be hard. Good stuff. If politicians are not to blame, who is? They created this problem in the first place. Parliament makes policy. Completely the opposite. I want us to accept it will be costly and take time but do it. Not because of any unrealistic hope it will lower immigration in the short term. That will decrease anyway from the current spike.I want it because we need to end a situation in which so many rely on benefits and get them into productive work. With the way the world changes so fast and with the dawning of the AI age now visible everyone must be capable of being retrained several times in their lives. Without the training resources or a commitment to building them we will stumble into a future where a benefit culture is the norm for everyone. Alongside that goes the need to encourage the sources of immigration to develop their own economies and reduce their birth rates. We choose our politicians. We get who we deserve and can change who we choose. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 07 Dec 23 2.32pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

So to summarise, we shouldn't bother to do anything because it will be hard.

Good stuff.

If politicians are not to blame, who is?

They created this problem in the first place. Parliament makes policy.

Completely the opposite. I want us to accept it will be costly and take time but do it.

Not because of any unrealistic hope it will lower immigration in the short term. That will decrease anyway from the current spike.I want it because we need to end a situation in which so many rely on benefits and get them into productive work.

With the way the world changes so fast and with the dawning of the AI age now visible everyone must be capable of being retrained several times in their lives. Without the training resources or a commitment to building them we will stumble into a future where a benefit culture is the norm for everyone.

Alongside that goes the need to encourage the sources of immigration to develop their own economies and reduce their birth rates.

We choose our politicians. We get who we deserve and can change who we choose.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 07 Dec 23 2.47pm
There's a picture of Sunak giving a speech on BBC with a lectern which has the words 'stop the boats' written on it. Has anyone told him he's the PM, and his party has been in power for some time now? I might change the footer on my comments to read 'Stop Nicholas91 from giving his opinions on things and matters Palace or otherwise'. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 07 Dec 23 2.47pm

There's a picture of Sunak giving a speech on BBC with a lectern which has the words 'stop the boats' written on it.

Has anyone told him he's the PM, and his party has been in power for some time now?

I might change the footer on my comments to read 'Stop Nicholas91 from giving his opinions on things and matters Palace or otherwise'.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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Stirlingsays 07 Dec 23 3.52pm
Originally posted by Nicholas91 There's a picture of Sunak giving a speech on BBC with a lectern which has the words 'stop the boats' written on it. Has anyone told him he's the PM, and his party has been in power for some time now? I might change the footer on my comments to read 'Stop Nicholas91 from giving his opinions on things and matters Palace or otherwise'. Jenkins said it best in his resigning letter. He said the changes aren't strong enough and he didn't want to be yet another Tory politician who lied on immigration. Labour making hay of course but avoiding the truth that they welcome the immigration that some Tories....Jenkins for example, actually wants to stop. Indeed, it was Blair who started these immigration numbers back in the nineties......Labour saying they will cut the numbers in half only goes back to Blair's figures of three hundred and fifty thousand. Clown world. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Dec 2023 3.54pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Dec 23 3.52pm

Originally posted by Nicholas91

There's a picture of Sunak giving a speech on BBC with a lectern which has the words 'stop the boats' written on it.

Has anyone told him he's the PM, and his party has been in power for some time now?

I might change the footer on my comments to read 'Stop Nicholas91 from giving his opinions on things and matters Palace or otherwise'.

Jenkins said it best in his resigning letter.

He said the changes aren't strong enough and he didn't want to be yet another Tory politician who lied on immigration.

Labour making hay of course but avoiding the truth that they welcome the immigration that some Tories....Jenkins for example, actually wants to stop.

Indeed, it was Blair who started these immigration numbers back in the nineties......Labour saying they will cut the numbers in half only goes back to Blair's figures of three hundred and fifty thousand.

Clown world.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Dec 2023 3.54pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 07 Dec 23 3.56pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Jenkins said it best in his resigning letter. He said the changes aren't strong enough and he didn't want to be yet another Tory politician who lied on immigration. Labour making hay of course but avoiding the truth that they welcome the immigration that some Tories....Jenkins for example, actually wants to stop. I'm unfamiliar with Jenkins but I am guessing he's that old fashioned, archaic form of politician, you know, the likes of whom actually stand behind something and hold beliefs/stances as opposed to bending whichever way the wind blows? Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 07 Dec 23 3.56pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Jenkins said it best in his resigning letter.

He said the changes aren't strong enough and he didn't want to be yet another Tory politician who lied on immigration.

Labour making hay of course but avoiding the truth that they welcome the immigration that some Tories....Jenkins for example, actually wants to stop.

I'm unfamiliar with Jenkins but I am guessing he's that old fashioned, archaic form of politician, you know, the likes of whom actually stand behind something and hold beliefs/stances as opposed to bending whichever way the wind blows?

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

Alert a moderator to this post

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