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Kermit8 Hevon 06 Jul 16 11.16pm | |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
"Take the decision, I took the decision. Don't say I was lying blah blah bliar bliar." He had already made the decision and fitted the findngs around it. The decision was not based on the findings but the findings were fitted around the decision. He committed us and couldn't go back on it. Shut everyone in cabinet and govt out of discussions. This man and his assistants at the time should not be allowed to walk away from this. Hundreds of thousands have died, ISIS rose from imprisonment in Iraq and Iraq is now a dangerous place to be, or just never go back to. Apparently you were better off just keeping your head down under Saddam. He was evil to a few, but there was order. Now you're in danger of having your head blown off. Not to mention the fleeing of the country, further unsettling in the region and mass movement of millions of people. And he was made peace envoy of the Middle East? Way to go, Tony. Real hero. He suffered a Messiah Complex following Kosovo and knew best. Better than any advice or experience in the region before. He was warned of the consequences and ignored it all. Not only liberate the world, he wanted to remain close allies of the US and develop his relationship with Bush and the US. He has made millions and ruined the lives of millions. The man is a disgrace and I don't buy his sombre and regretful tone. It's because it's all come out. Maybe he and Bush saw Saddam as too big a figure in the region and wanted to act rather than react but they too a big gamble and the WMD they wanted to be there never was. It might wash in the US with Tony's appearances on chat shows but it shouldn't here.
The man is despicable. Did well in Kosovo and was on a mission to be a hero again no matter what. I seem to remember me and 999,999 others marching through London trying to 'Stop the War' before it had even began and with good reasons yet our thoughts really didn't concern him. Nothing did.
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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 06 Jul 16 11.41pm | |
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Just showed robin cook's resignation speech on newsnight. Seems he was right.
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blackpalacefan 07 Jul 16 12.47am | |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Just showed robin cook's resignation speech on newsnight. Seems he was right. Indeed they did Attachment: CmrVPakWIAEbOmw.jpg (13.25Kb)
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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 07 Jul 16 8.22am | |
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Paul Weller got it right in '79 Come on outside, I'll sing you a lullaby It was done beneath the flag of democracy These days I find that I can't be bothered Saying find enclosed one son
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Sportyteacher London 07 Jul 16 8.45am | |
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Iain Duncan Smith & David Cameron available for comment today? Duncan Smith as Leader of Opposition at the time was crucial by way of HIS party's vote to endorse military action based upon same intelligence information received by Blair & Kennedy.
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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 07 Jul 16 8.48am | |
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Originally posted by Sportyteacher
Iain Duncan Smith & David Cameron available for comment today? Duncan Smith as Leader of Opposition at the time was crucial by way of HIS party's vote to endorse military action based upon same intelligence information received by Blair & Kennedy. Cameron spoke yesterday IBS hasn't said anything and as a former colonel you would think he might have had a slightly better grasp of things
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jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Jul 16 9.38am | |
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Originally posted by rob1969
Seven plus years, 2.5 million words, lord knows how many million of £'s - and the conclusions are those that any half intelligent person could have come to within 24 hours of being given the most basic facts. The Iraqi people? their half million dead? No - must be someone/something else! Suggestions welcome! I don't think you can really put a price on establishing the truth in print, in black and white. Whether anything happens, we as a nation know for a fact now what transpired, and must endeavour to remember that for the future.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Hrolf The Ganger 07 Jul 16 10.05am | |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Just showed robin cook's resignation speech on newsnight. Seems he was right. Although I have no time for Tony Blair,the problem with all this that it is easy to judge the actions of individuals but impossible to judge inaction. Bush decided he wanted to get rid of Saddam and Blair went along for better or worse. We perceive the aftermath to be worse because we see a direct link between the actions of Bush and Blair and today's more complicated dangerous world. However we cannot predict or evaluate the price of their inaction because it didn't happen that way. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (07 Jul 2016 10.06am)
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jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Jul 16 10.20am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Although I have no time for Tony Blair,the problem with all this that it is easy to judge the actions of individuals but impossible to judge inaction. Given the situation at the time, of UN sanctions and inspections, I think it would be erroneous to say that inaction was in place. Effectively the threat of Iraq to the rest of the world was contained, and its capacity to influence or change that retarded to the point of insignificance. Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Bush decided he wanted to get rid of Saddam and Blair went along for better or worse. We perceive the aftermath to be worse because we see a direct link between the actions of Bush and Blair to be directly responsible for today's more complicated world. We cannot predict or evaluate the price of their inaction because it didn't happen that way. True, but then we can only judge based on what we know and knew, and the rise of IS can be tied directly to the Sunni insurgency in Iraq, and was formed out of the imprisonment of Sunni insurgents in Iraq. Given the dominance of the Sunni under Saddam, its unlikely that the organisation would have had much support in Iraq, and the alliance between Syria and Iraq, would likely have led to it being stamped out in the Syrian civil war. Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
It is not a argument to support their decisions to invade Iraq but we must view them in the context of the time and without hindsight. I think there is sufficient information in the fact they'd decided on a military resolution long in advance of the war (as far back as 2001 it seems). The UK, and US, declared themselves above their own rules and laws, and despite being part of the UN security council, went against its decision and were not only wrong, but had selective ignored evidence that did not fit their case for war. Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
We must also acknowledge that although we might all have our pet theories about what happened and why, myself included, none of us really have the bigger picture that Bush and Blair would have. Of course that bigger picture might have been the wrong picture provided by advisors that had their own agendas. Agendas which they were part of. Its not a case that Blair did not see or know of evidence to the contrary but that it was discarded and dismissed, to define a case for war - and was not only wrong but clearly not the only story being presented - and at least one dissenter was 'hounded' to suicide for speaking out. Basically, the man was part of that agenda, and should pay the price for those decisions, that cost so many lives. For the US and UK, Iraq was a golden opportunity to pump revenue funds into private companies on a scale unseen before.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Kermit8 Hevon 07 Jul 16 10.22am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Although I have no time for Tony Blair,the problem with all this that it is easy to judge the actions of individuals but impossible to judge inaction. Bush decided he wanted to get rid of Saddam and Blair went along for better or worse. We perceive the aftermath to be worse because we see a direct link between the actions of Bush and Blair and today's more complicated dangerous world. However we cannot predict or evaluate the price of their inaction because it didn't happen that way. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (07 Jul 2016 10.06am) Saddam was falsely inextricably linked to 9/11 by the US in order to invade. The same kind of devious lies that Hitler used to invade Poland. All about Iran too of course and making money for Haliburton but, by Jove, they couldn't have fvcked it up on the ground more if they had tried. Sacking the Iraqi army? Good move Dick, George and Donald.
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Hrolf The Ganger 07 Jul 16 10.29am | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Agendas which they were part of. Its not a case that Blair did not see or know of evidence to the contrary but that it was discarded and dismissed, to define a case for war - and was not only wrong but clearly not the only story being presented - and at least one dissenter was 'hounded' to suicide for speaking out. Basically, the man was part of that agenda, and should pay the price for those decisions, that cost so many lives. For the US and UK, Iraq was a golden opportunity to pump revenue funds into private companies on a scale unseen before. I can't really argue with any of that other than to say that we do have the benefit of hindsight.
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Hrolf The Ganger 07 Jul 16 10.33am | |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Saddam was falsely inextricably linked to 9/11 by the US in order to invade. The same kind of devious lies that Hitler used to invade Poland. All about Iran too of course and making money for Haliburton but, by Jove, they couldn't have fvcked it up on the ground more if they had tried. Sacking the Iraqi army? Good move Dick, George and Donald.
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