Hiroshima

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leggedstruggle Croydon 06 Aug 15 9.32pm
Quote legaleagle at 06 Aug 2015 9.24pm Quote TheJudge at 06 Aug 2015 7.49pm There were people like the lefties on this thread who didn't want to fight and complained about everything during WW2. They didn't like Churchill of course. Some things never change. Lucky they weren't in charge. Then there were people like the righties (I wouldn't be so patronising as to say like the righties on this thread) like the owner of the Daily Mail and its headline of "Hurrah for the BUF Blackshirts" and the righties who appeased Hitler and ended up getting is into the mess we faced in May 1940...The appeasers didn't like Churchill of course.Kind of people who complained about those who said Hitler would have to be dealt with,was evil and we'd better get prepared...Lucky they were finally usurped in May 1940. But the Communist Party of Britain and its fellow travelers (I wouldn't be so patronising as to say like the lefties on this thread) were models of consistency in their attitude to Hitler. mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler
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leggedstruggle

Croydon 06 Aug 15 9.32pm

Quote legaleagle at 06 Aug 2015 9.24pm

Quote TheJudge at 06 Aug 2015 7.49pm

There were people like the lefties on this thread who didn't want to fight and complained about everything during WW2. They didn't like Churchill of course.

Some things never change. Lucky they weren't in charge.

Then there were people like the righties (I wouldn't be so patronising as to say like the righties on this thread) like the owner of the Daily Mail and its headline of "Hurrah for the BUF Blackshirts" and the righties who appeased Hitler and ended up getting is into the mess we faced in May 1940...The appeasers didn't like Churchill of course.Kind of people who complained about those who said Hitler would have to be dealt with,was evil and we'd better get prepared...Lucky they were finally usurped in May 1940.

But the Communist Party of Britain and its fellow travelers (I wouldn't be so patronising as to say like the lefties on this thread) were models of consistency in their attitude to Hitler.

mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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legaleagle 06 Aug 15 9.43pm
You are quite right that the Stalinist CPGB (shame on them)abandoned their opposition to Hitler,following the Soviet Union's deal with Hitler in August 1939 until Hitler's invasion of the USSR in 1941. You couldn't compare them to any lefties I've seen on this thread since that would be not only patronising but ignorant as well. Edited by legaleagle (06 Aug 2015 9.44pm)
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legaleagle

06 Aug 15 9.43pm

You are quite right that the Stalinist CPGB (shame on them)abandoned their opposition to Hitler,following the Soviet Union's deal with Hitler in August 1939 until Hitler's invasion of the USSR in 1941.

You couldn't compare them to any lefties I've seen on this thread since that would be not only patronising but ignorant as well.

Edited by legaleagle (06 Aug 2015 9.44pm)

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Stirlingsays 06 Aug 15 9.46pm
Quote suicideatselhurst at 06 Aug 2015 8.39pm The Japenese government was split down the middle regarding surrender, the final decision was given to the Emperor, after the second bomb had been dropped, the russians promised they would declare war on japan after Germanys surrender, which they honoured and invaded Manchuria.... it had nothing to do with showing the russians what they had, it was a means to end the war quickly, some U.S. government predictions had the war in Japan not ending until 1946/7.... even with British and Russian forces joining in....even after Okinowa had been overun the Japanese had 6 million men they could send in the field....horrible, but had to be done, no point in judging what people did 70 years ago from the comfort of our keyboards I don't mean to be rude but isn't that a contradiction? You can't say it had to be done and then say you shouldn't judge people on what happened seventy years ago. The use of the atom bomb shows that in essence there was no 'morality' for the victors. All the evils of the Japanese rule were surpassed with its usage. It's usage outside of a defensive measure.....as in how it is used now.....Isn't defendable, in my view. Of course, ever since it was used justifications have been used for it.....video and evidence hidden from the actual event until 40 years after the event. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Aug 2015 9.48pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

06 Aug 15 9.46pm

Quote suicideatselhurst at 06 Aug 2015 8.39pm

The Japenese government was split down the middle regarding surrender, the final decision was given to the Emperor, after the second bomb had been dropped, the russians promised they would declare war on japan after Germanys surrender, which they honoured and invaded Manchuria.... it had nothing to do with showing the russians what they had, it was a means to end the war quickly, some U.S. government predictions had the war in Japan not ending until 1946/7.... even with British and Russian forces joining in....even after Okinowa had been overun the Japanese had 6 million men they could send in the field....horrible, but had to be done, no point in judging what people did 70 years ago from the comfort of our keyboards

I don't mean to be rude but isn't that a contradiction?

You can't say it had to be done and then say you shouldn't judge people on what happened seventy years ago.

The use of the atom bomb shows that in essence there was no 'morality' for the victors. All the evils of the Japanese rule were surpassed with its usage.

It's usage outside of a defensive measure.....as in how it is used now.....Isn't defendable, in my view.

Of course, ever since it was used justifications have been used for it.....video and evidence hidden from the actual event until 40 years after the event.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Aug 2015 9.48pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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legaleagle 06 Aug 15 9.50pm
Quote suicideatselhurst at 06 Aug 2015 8.39pm it had nothing to do with showing the russians what they had, it was a means to end the war quickly, Don't know about that. I don't doubt a good part of the reason was the likely loss of US lives in any invasion of "mainland" Japan, plus wanting a quick end to the war to deny the Soviet Union (which only entered the war against Japan in August 1945) too many potential strategic "spoils of victory". But,at the Potsdam Conference with Stalin and Churchill in July,Truman had told Stalin about a new weapon the US had developed of unusual destructive power and,as the Harry S Truman Memorial Library puts it: "On the agenda was the partitioning of the postwar world and resolving the problems of the war in the Far East. This included hammering out the details regarding the division of Germany; the movement of populations from Czechoslovakia, Austria, and Italy; the creation of a Council of Foreign Ministers to administer the agreed upon zones of occupation; and issuing a proclamation demanding unconditional surrender from the Japanese government. Truman, despite his relative inexperience in dealing with foreign diplomats, was holding a trump card that would give him confidence in making demands of the other leaders. . .the atomic bomb. The most powerful and destructive armament to date, the atomic bomb was solely in the hands of the United States government." Edited by legaleagle (06 Aug 2015 9.51pm)
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legaleagle

06 Aug 15 9.50pm

Quote suicideatselhurst at 06 Aug 2015 8.39pm

it had nothing to do with showing the russians what they had, it was a means to end the war quickly,

Don't know about that.

I don't doubt a good part of the reason was the likely loss of US lives in any invasion of "mainland" Japan, plus wanting a quick end to the war to deny the Soviet Union (which only entered the war against Japan in August 1945) too many potential strategic "spoils of victory".

But,at the Potsdam Conference with Stalin and Churchill in July,Truman had told Stalin about a new weapon the US had developed of unusual destructive power and,as the Harry S Truman Memorial Library puts it:

"On the agenda was the partitioning of the postwar world and resolving the problems of the war in the Far East. This included hammering out the details regarding the division of Germany; the movement of populations from Czechoslovakia, Austria, and Italy; the creation of a Council of Foreign Ministers to administer the agreed upon zones of occupation; and issuing a proclamation demanding unconditional surrender from the Japanese government. Truman, despite his relative inexperience in dealing with foreign diplomats, was holding a trump card that would give him confidence in making demands of the other leaders. . .the atomic bomb. The most powerful and destructive armament to date, the atomic bomb was solely in the hands of the United States government."

Edited by legaleagle (06 Aug 2015 9.51pm)

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leggedstruggle Croydon 06 Aug 15 9.56pm
Quote legaleagle at 06 Aug 2015 9.43pm You are quite right that the Stalinist CPGB (shame on them)abandoned their opposition to Hitler,following the Soviet Union's deal with Hitler in August 1939 until Hitler's invasion of the USSR in 1941. You couldn't compare them to any lefties I've seen on this thread since that would be not only patronising but ignorant as well. Edited by legaleagle (06 Aug 2015 9.44pm) Most of the rest of the left at the time followed suit 'Imperialist war - keep out of it' etc. I was of course merely taking the piss out of your patronising comment - although most of you are Marxists presumably, so communists or fellow travellers. mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler
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leggedstruggle

Croydon 06 Aug 15 9.56pm

Quote legaleagle at 06 Aug 2015 9.43pm

You couldn't compare them to any lefties I've seen on this thread since that would be not only patronising but ignorant as well.

Edited by legaleagle (06 Aug 2015 9.44pm)

Most of the rest of the left at the time followed suit 'Imperialist war - keep out of it' etc. I was of course merely taking the piss out of your patronising comment - although most of you are Marxists presumably, so communists or fellow travellers.

mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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silvertop Portishead 06 Aug 15 10.01pm
I can actually see the sense in dropping the bomb. My problem is the need to drop it on a city. The U.S. Had complete air supremacy and could have dropped it anywhere they liked. At least start with a more isolated island.
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silvertop

Portishead 06 Aug 15 10.01pm

I can actually see the sense in dropping the bomb. My problem is the need to drop it on a city. The U.S. Had complete air supremacy and could have dropped it anywhere they liked. At least start with a more isolated island.

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Stirlingsays 06 Aug 15 10.02pm
Quote silvertop at 06 Aug 2015 10.01pm I can actually see the sense in dropping the bomb. My problem is the need to drop it on a city. The U.S. Had complete air supremacy and could have dropped it anywhere they liked. At least start with a more isolated island. I wonder if this was considered. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

06 Aug 15 10.02pm

Quote silvertop at 06 Aug 2015 10.01pm

I wonder if this was considered.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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legaleagle 06 Aug 15 10.06pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Aug 2015 9.56pm Most of the rest of the left at the time followed suit 'Imperialist war - keep out of it' etc. I was of course merely taking the piss out of your patronising comment - although most of you are Marxists presumably, so communists or fellow travellers. So, most of the rest of the left (left in your eyes probably being anyone not thinking Attila the Hun was a liberal) followed the CPGB line 1939-41 including Attlee,Bevan etc..and we are all likely marxists on here if we are remotely to the "left" of the Tory Party. I get it and thanks for putting me straight Edited by legaleagle (06 Aug 2015 10.08pm)
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legaleagle

06 Aug 15 10.06pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Aug 2015 9.56pm

So, most of the rest of the left (left in your eyes probably being anyone not thinking Attila the Hun was a liberal) followed the CPGB line 1939-41 including Attlee,Bevan etc..and we are all likely marxists on here if we are remotely to the "left" of the Tory Party.

I get it and thanks for putting me straight

Edited by legaleagle (06 Aug 2015 10.08pm)

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suicideatselhurst crawley 06 Aug 15 10.08pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 06 Aug 2015 9.46pm Quote suicideatselhurst at 06 Aug 2015 8.39pm The Japenese government was split down the middle regarding surrender, the final decision was given to the Emperor, after the second bomb had been dropped, the russians promised they would declare war on japan after Germanys surrender, which they honoured and invaded Manchuria.... it had nothing to do with showing the russians what they had, it was a means to end the war quickly, some U.S. government predictions had the war in Japan not ending until 1946/7.... even with British and Russian forces joining in....even after Okinowa had been overun the Japanese had 6 million men they could send in the field....horrible, but had to be done, no point in judging what people did 70 years ago from the comfort of our keyboards I don't mean to be rude but isn't that a contradiction? You can't say it had to be done and then say you shouldn't judge people on what happened seventy years ago. The use of the atom bomb shows that in essence there was no 'morality' for the victors. All the evils of the Japanese rule were surpassed with its usage. It's usage outside of a defensive measure.....as in how it is used now.....Isn't defendable, in my view. Of course, ever since it was used justifications have been used for it.....video and evidence hidden from the actual event until 40 years after the event. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Aug 2015 9.48pm) mmm dont know...a better phrase would have been "I think it was horrible," and they thought it had to be done at the time...? Theres someone in my head ... But its not me X/Box game Tag bazcpfc1961, clan (HMS)
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suicideatselhurst

crawley 06 Aug 15 10.08pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 06 Aug 2015 9.46pm

Quote suicideatselhurst at 06 Aug 2015 8.39pm

I don't mean to be rude but isn't that a contradiction?

You can't say it had to be done and then say you shouldn't judge people on what happened seventy years ago.

The use of the atom bomb shows that in essence there was no 'morality' for the victors. All the evils of the Japanese rule were surpassed with its usage.

It's usage outside of a defensive measure.....as in how it is used now.....Isn't defendable, in my view.

Of course, ever since it was used justifications have been used for it.....video and evidence hidden from the actual event until 40 years after the event.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Aug 2015 9.48pm)

mmm dont know...a better phrase would have been "I think it was horrible," and they thought it had to be done at the time...?

Theres someone in my head ... But its not me

X/Box game Tag bazcpfc1961, clan (HMS)

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TheJudge 06 Aug 15 10.10pm
Quote legaleagle at 06 Aug 2015 9.24pm Quote TheJudge at 06 Aug 2015 7.49pm There were people like the lefties on this thread who didn't want to fight and complained about everything during WW2. They didn't like Churchill of course. Some things never change. Lucky they weren't in charge. Then there were people like the righties (I wouldn't be so patronising as to say like the righties on this thread) like the owner of the Daily Mail and its headline of "Hurrah for the BUF Blackshirts" and the righties who appeased Hitler and ended up getting is into the mess we faced in May 1940...The appeasers didn't like Churchill of course.Kind of people who complained about those who said Hitler would have to be dealt with,was evil and we'd better get prepared...Lucky they were finally usurped in May 1940. Well certainly Fascism wasn't frowned upon, pre war, by everyone for sure and certainly Hitler had many admirers over here. But the the truth is that ideology came a distant second to national and personal security when the war started and the Right soon realised that Hitler was a megalomaniac. Unfortunately, the left, the unions and all the usual suspects were not so keen to roll their sleeves up. Same old same old. Of course I'm speaking in generalities but I'm happy to engage you on detail if you really want to.
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TheJudge

06 Aug 15 10.10pm

Quote legaleagle at 06 Aug 2015 9.24pm

Quote TheJudge at 06 Aug 2015 7.49pm

There were people like the lefties on this thread who didn't want to fight and complained about everything during WW2. They didn't like Churchill of course.

Some things never change. Lucky they weren't in charge.

Well certainly Fascism wasn't frowned upon, pre war, by everyone for sure and certainly Hitler had many admirers over here. But the the truth is that ideology came a distant second to national and personal security when the war started and the Right soon realised that Hitler was a megalomaniac.

Unfortunately, the left, the unions and all the usual suspects were not so keen to roll their sleeves up. Same old same old.

Of course I'm speaking in generalities but I'm happy to engage you on detail if you really want to.

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leggedstruggle Croydon 06 Aug 15 10.12pm
Quote legaleagle at 06 Aug 2015 10.06pm Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Aug 2015 9.56pm Most of the rest of the left at the time followed suit 'Imperialist war - keep out of it' etc. I was of course merely taking the piss out of your patronising comment - although most of you are Marxists presumably, so communists or fellow travellers. So, most of the rest of the left (left in your eyes probably being anyone not thinking Attila the Hun was a liberal) followed the CPGB line 1939-41 including Attlee,Bevan etc..and we are all likely marxists on here if we are remotely to the "left" of the Tory Party. I get it and thanks for putting me straight Edited by legaleagle (06 Aug 2015 10.08pm) You are familiar with the meaning of the word 'most' I take it. Some, like Orwell, were very consistent in their attitude to Hitler, he often wrote about the hypocrisy of his comrades on the left. Certainly your daft ideas and those of the other lefties here are decidedly Marxist. mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler
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leggedstruggle

Croydon 06 Aug 15 10.12pm

Quote legaleagle at 06 Aug 2015 10.06pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Aug 2015 9.56pm

I get it and thanks for putting me straight

Edited by legaleagle (06 Aug 2015 10.08pm)

You are familiar with the meaning of the word 'most' I take it. Some, like Orwell, were very consistent in their attitude to Hitler, he often wrote about the hypocrisy of his comrades on the left. Certainly your daft ideas and those of the other lefties here are decidedly Marxist.

mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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suicideatselhurst crawley 06 Aug 15 10.13pm
Quote legaleagle at 06 Aug 2015 9.50pm Quote suicideatselhurst at 06 Aug 2015 8.39pm it had nothing to do with showing the russians what they had, it was a means to end the war quickly, Don't know about that. I don't doubt a good part of the reason was the likely loss of US lives in any invasion of "mainland" Japan, plus wanting a quick end to the war to deny the Soviet Union (which only entered the war against Japan in August 1945) too many potential strategic "spoils of victory". But,at the Potsdam Conference with Stalin and Churchill in July,Truman had told Stalin about a new weapon the US had developed of unusual destructive power and,as the Harry S Truman Memorial Library puts it: "On the agenda was the partitioning of the postwar world and resolving the problems of the war in the Far East. This included hammering out the details regarding the division of Germany; the movement of populations from Czechoslovakia, Austria, and Italy; the creation of a Council of Foreign Ministers to administer the agreed upon zones of occupation; and issuing a proclamation demanding unconditional surrender from the Japanese government. Truman, despite his relative inexperience in dealing with foreign diplomats, was holding a trump card that would give him confidence in making demands of the other leaders. . .the atomic bomb. The most powerful and destructive armament to date, the atomic bomb was solely in the hands of the United States government." Edited by legaleagle (06 Aug 2015 9.51pm) The potsdam conference was Atlee not churchill, and no doubt Truman was niave in his dealings with stalin and any form of brinkmanship... he may have seen having an atomic bomb as a upper hand, however they only had two and it woild have taken another year to build more... so im leaning towards ending the war quickly...however feel free to disagree Theres someone in my head ... But its not me X/Box game Tag bazcpfc1961, clan (HMS)
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suicideatselhurst

crawley 06 Aug 15 10.13pm

Quote legaleagle at 06 Aug 2015 9.50pm

Quote suicideatselhurst at 06 Aug 2015 8.39pm

it had nothing to do with showing the russians what they had, it was a means to end the war quickly,

Don't know about that.

Edited by legaleagle (06 Aug 2015 9.51pm)

The potsdam conference was Atlee not churchill, and no doubt Truman was niave in his dealings with stalin and any form of brinkmanship... he may have seen having an atomic bomb as a upper hand, however they only had two and it woild have taken another year to build more... so im leaning towards ending the war quickly...however feel free to disagree

Theres someone in my head ... But its not me

X/Box game Tag bazcpfc1961, clan (HMS)

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