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Southern Rail Strike - right or wrong

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7mins In the bush 17 Dec 16 10.15am
Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch As would any case against Southern or the DfT Well, yes. Of course
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7mins

In the bush 17 Dec 16 10.15am

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

As would any case against Southern or the DfT

Well, yes.

Of course

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Helmet46 Croydon 17 Dec 16 10.40am
Originally posted by 7mins Invite was to both unions as both been on strike. Southern/DfT decided on Thursday morning to deal with ASLEF only, they turned RMT fella away. Drivers hold power, southern know this... if they can sort deal with ASLEF, they will just ignore RMT. ASLEF agreement on DOO means any RMT strikes will have zero effect. The dude who says I'm a bitter ex employee... that's a hard one to counter... because a bitter ex employee would say... "I'm happy I left". All I can do is say... I put it on here that I left, I made it clear it my decision and that I used my job with TOCs (I worked for more than one) to fund my property developing that I do now. Combining the two, nearly killed me. My life is far better now. I'm blessed, I don't deserve the life I have now. Life is short... don't waste it. I understand this dispute is costing jobs/relationships... that is awful, but doesn't alter who I believe to be at fault. How anyone can look at the CCTV images in the drivers cab and say DOO is safe is beyond me As an alleged ex senior member of their HR team and as a matter of curiousity, what action would you have taken against an Employee that took a photograph inside the cab of an operational train, presumably with a mobile phone? I only ask as a friend of mine, who drives for Southern, tells me it's a disciplinary offence. (Not that I'd ever say anything to anyone but it's a credibility thing for me and I'm just trying to understand the wisdom of placing said photos on, what amounts to social media, simply in an attempt to prove a point - on a thread where people are concerned about both jobs and safety. If he/she is using a phone then he/she ain't looking at the CCTV anyway and risking his/her job isn't she/he)? Edited by Helmet46 (17 Dec 2016 10.51am)
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Helmet46

Croydon 17 Dec 16 10.40am

Originally posted by 7mins

Invite was to both unions as both been on strike. Southern/DfT decided on Thursday morning to deal with ASLEF only, they turned RMT fella away. Drivers hold power, southern know this... if they can sort deal with ASLEF, they will just ignore RMT.
ASLEF agreement on DOO means any RMT strikes will have zero effect.

The dude who says I'm a bitter ex employee... that's a hard one to counter... because a bitter ex employee would say... "I'm happy I left". All I can do is say... I put it on here that I left, I made it clear it my decision and that I used my job with TOCs (I worked for more than one) to fund my property developing that I do now. Combining the two, nearly killed me. My life is far better now. I'm blessed, I don't deserve the life I have now.

Life is short... don't waste it.

I understand this dispute is costing jobs/relationships... that is awful, but doesn't alter who I believe to be at fault. How anyone can look at the CCTV images in the drivers cab and say DOO is safe is beyond me

As an alleged ex senior member of their HR team and as a matter of curiousity, what action would you have taken against an Employee that took a photograph inside the cab of an operational train, presumably with a mobile phone?

I only ask as a friend of mine, who drives for Southern, tells me it's a disciplinary offence. (Not that I'd ever say anything to anyone but it's a credibility thing for me and I'm just trying to understand the wisdom of placing said photos on, what amounts to social media, simply in an attempt to prove a point - on a thread where people are concerned about both jobs and safety. If he/she is using a phone then he/she ain't looking at the CCTV anyway and risking his/her job isn't she/he)?

Edited by Helmet46 (17 Dec 2016 10.51am)

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7mins In the bush 17 Dec 16 11.39am
Originally posted by Helmet46 As an alleged ex senior member of their HR team and as a matter of curiousity, what action would you have taken against an Employee that took a photograph inside the cab of an operational train, presumably with a mobile phone? I only ask as a friend of mine, who drives for Southern, tells me it's a disciplinary offence. (Not that I'd ever say anything to anyone but it's a credibility thing for me and I'm just trying to understand the wisdom of placing said photos on, what amounts to social media, simply in an attempt to prove a point - on a thread where people are concerned about both jobs and safety. If he/she is using a phone then he/she ain't looking at the CCTV anyway and risking his/her job isn't she/he)? Edited by Helmet46 (17 Dec 2016 10.51am) It's a disciplinary offence to use a mobile phone for personal reasons in a train cab (the rules were changed slightly a few years ago, as rules were made before widespread mobile phone use) Staff are risking their job by getting these images out there. But off the top of my head I can think of a few get outs a smart union rep could use if any action was taken. The rule book stats phones can't be used for personal use. If they are taking pics of failed safety equipment, it could be argued that it was documenting a safety issue that might be useful to fleet control. They could also say, the pic was taken with a tablet.. that had no communication capability. But drivers/guards need to be careful. Edited by 7mins (17 Dec 2016 11.42am)
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7mins

In the bush 17 Dec 16 11.39am

Originally posted by Helmet46

Edited by Helmet46 (17 Dec 2016 10.51am)

It's a disciplinary offence to use a mobile phone for personal reasons in a train cab (the rules were changed slightly a few years ago, as rules were made before widespread mobile phone use)
Staff are risking their job by getting these images out there.
But off the top of my head I can think of a few get outs a smart union rep could use if any action was taken.

The rule book stats phones can't be used for personal use. If they are taking pics of failed safety equipment, it could be argued that it was documenting a safety issue that might be useful to fleet control.

They could also say, the pic was taken with a tablet.. that had no communication capability.

But drivers/guards need to be careful.

Edited by 7mins (17 Dec 2016 11.42am)

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7mins In the bush 17 Dec 16 11.51am
Also, drivers are soon to be given company iPads, one of the reasons they want to do this is to take away the need for drivers to write reports after shifts about faulty equipment. (A driver doesn't have to stay behind to write reports, so fleet might not be made aware of problems for a few days ) With iPads the driver can take pics, and email off instantly. The iPad roll out was meant to happen before xmas, but has been put on hold. The last thing Southern need now is drivers reporting more issues with in cab CCTV. We wanted to do the iPad thing years ago. Drivers get issued weekly operating notifications (WONs) and periodically operating notices (PONs) these are A5 size documents with over 100 pages, that every driver gets every week. Putting that info on to a iPad at a click of a button seemed very cost effective.
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7mins

In the bush 17 Dec 16 11.51am

Also, drivers are soon to be given company iPads, one of the reasons they want to do this is to take away the need for drivers to write reports after shifts about faulty equipment. (A driver doesn't have to stay behind to write reports, so fleet might not be made aware of problems for a few days )
With iPads the driver can take pics, and email off instantly. The iPad roll out was meant to happen before xmas, but has been put on hold. The last thing Southern need now is drivers reporting more issues with in cab CCTV. We wanted to do the iPad thing years ago. Drivers get issued weekly operating notifications (WONs) and periodically operating notices (PONs) these are A5 size documents with over 100 pages, that every driver gets every week. Putting that info on to a iPad at a click of a button seemed very cost effective.

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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 17 Dec 16 11.52am
Originally posted by 7mins It's a disciplinary offence to use a mobile phone for personal reasons in a train cab (the rules were changed slightly a few years ago, as rules were made before widespread mobile phone use) Staff are risking their job by getting these images out there. But off the top of my head I can think of a few get outs a smart union rep could use if any action was taken. The rule book stats phones can't be used for personal use. If they are taking pics of failed safety equipment, it could be argued that it was documenting a safety issue that might be useful to fleet control. They could also say, the pic was taken with a tablet.. that had no communication capability. But drivers/guards need to be careful. Edited by 7mins (17 Dec 2016 11.42am) So safety only applies when it suits? the dignified don't even enter in the game
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Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 17 Dec 16 11.52am

Originally posted by 7mins

They could also say, the pic was taken with a tablet.. that had no communication capability.

But drivers/guards need to be careful.

Edited by 7mins (17 Dec 2016 11.42am)

So safety only applies when it suits?

the dignified don't even enter in the game

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Helmet46 Croydon 17 Dec 16 11.57am
Originally posted by 7mins Also, drivers are soon to be given company iPads, one of the reasons they want to do this is to take away the need for drivers to write reports after shifts about faulty equipment. (A driver doesn't have to stay behind to write reports, so fleet might not be made aware of problems for a few days ) With iPads the driver can take pics, and email off instantly. The iPad roll out was meant to happen before xmas, but has been put on hold. The last thing Southern need now is drivers reporting more issues with in cab CCTV. We wanted to do the iPad thing years ago. Drivers get issued weekly operating notifications (WONs) and periodically operating notices (PONs) these are A5 size documents with over 100 pages, that every driver gets every week. Putting that info on to a iPad at a click of a button seemed very cost effective. And that's happening - so their lives are being made easier but I suspect that using it, whilst the train is operational and picking up passengers, may be frowned upon? I don't know any industry where new technology isn't held up for some reason or another.
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Helmet46

Croydon 17 Dec 16 11.57am

Originally posted by 7mins

And that's happening - so their lives are being made easier but I suspect that using it, whilst the train is operational and picking up passengers, may be frowned upon?
I don't know any industry where new technology isn't held up for some reason or another.

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Helmet46 Croydon 17 Dec 16 12.02pm
Originally posted by 7mins It's a disciplinary offence to use a mobile phone for personal reasons in a train cab (the rules were changed slightly a few years ago, as rules were made before widespread mobile phone use) Staff are risking their job by getting these images out there. But off the top of my head I can think of a few get outs a smart union rep could use if any action was taken. The rule book stats phones can't be used for personal use. If they are taking pics of failed safety equipment, it could be argued that it was documenting a safety issue that might be useful to fleet control. They could also say, the pic was taken with a tablet.. that had no communication capability. But drivers/guards need to be careful. Edited by 7mins (17 Dec 2016 11.42am) So they're risking their jobs and potentially compromising passenger safety to take photos in a cab whilst a train is operational to identify the faulty equipment that they are shortly to be getting iPads to report immediately, so said faults are fixed quicker? So any faulty cctv will be sorted out a lot quicker so it will start to get safer as all cameras will work. Their job will be made easier by cutting out extensive end of shift reporting of faults. They will have a conductor on the train - who will, I assume, deal with internal passenger issues - so the ratio isn't 1200:1 in reality (although granted it will be on some trains). Yet they strike? Edited by Helmet46 (17 Dec 2016 12.10pm)
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Helmet46

Croydon 17 Dec 16 12.02pm

Originally posted by 7mins

They could also say, the pic was taken with a tablet.. that had no communication capability.

But drivers/guards need to be careful.

Edited by 7mins (17 Dec 2016 11.42am)

So they're risking their jobs and potentially compromising passenger safety to take photos in a cab whilst a train is operational to identify the faulty equipment that they are shortly to be getting iPads to report immediately, so said faults are fixed quicker?
So any faulty cctv will be sorted out a lot quicker so it will start to get safer as all cameras will work.
Their job will be made easier by cutting out extensive end of shift reporting of faults.
They will have a conductor on the train - who will, I assume, deal with internal passenger issues - so the ratio isn't 1200:1 in reality (although granted it will be on some trains).
Yet they strike?

Edited by Helmet46 (17 Dec 2016 12.10pm)

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7mins In the bush 17 Dec 16 12.59pm
Originally posted by Helmet46 So they're risking their jobs and potentially compromising passenger safety to take photos in a cab whilst a train is operational to identify the faulty equipment that they are shortly to be getting iPads to report immediately, so said faults are fixed quicker? So any faulty cctv will be sorted out a lot quicker so it will start to get safer as all cameras will work. Their job will be made easier by cutting out extensive end of shift reporting of faults. They will have a conductor on the train - who will, I assume, deal with internal passenger issues - so the ratio isn't 1200:1 in reality (although granted it will be on some trains). Yet they strike? Edited by Helmet46 (17 Dec 2016 12.10pm) You can easily make a train safe and use a camera in a safe manner. (DRA, Master Switch to neutral)
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7mins

In the bush 17 Dec 16 12.59pm

Originally posted by Helmet46

Edited by Helmet46 (17 Dec 2016 12.10pm)

You can easily make a train safe and use a camera in a safe manner.
(DRA, Master Switch to neutral)

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7mins In the bush 17 Dec 16 1.02pm
Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch So safety only applies when it suits? No, if a driver or guard used their camera to take pics of failed safety equipment, while the train was at a stand, they'd be no safety implications, if a driver was on Tinder while train doing 90 up the brighton main line, they'd be safety implications
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7mins

In the bush 17 Dec 16 1.02pm

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

So safety only applies when it suits?

No, if a driver or guard used their camera to take pics of failed safety equipment, while the train was at a stand, they'd be no safety implications, if a driver was on Tinder while train doing 90 up the brighton main line, they'd be safety implications

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Helmet46 Croydon 17 Dec 16 1.25pm
Originally posted by 7mins You can easily make a train safe and use a camera in a safe manner. (DRA, Master Switch to neutral) But, in any case, this issue has been recognised and they're getting iPads to make the fault reporting clearer so they don't need to use their own phones. (Plus if they were using their phones to report an issue it'd be ok but I still think it's disciplinary if they are using them to post pictures of the companies property on social media with a view to criticising their employer).
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Helmet46

Croydon 17 Dec 16 1.25pm

Originally posted by 7mins

You can easily make a train safe and use a camera in a safe manner.
(DRA, Master Switch to neutral)

But, in any case, this issue has been recognised and they're getting iPads to make the fault reporting clearer so they don't need to use their own phones. (Plus if they were using their phones to report an issue it'd be ok but I still think it's disciplinary if they are using them to post pictures of the companies property on social media with a view to criticising their employer).

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7mins In the bush 17 Dec 16 2.04pm
Originally posted by Helmet46 But, in any case, this issue has been recognised and they're getting iPads to make the fault reporting clearer so they don't need to use their own phones. (Plus if they were using their phones to report an issue it'd be ok but I still think it's disciplinary if they are using them to post pictures of the companies property on social media with a view to criticising their employer). You're closer to making a valid point about posting on social media, Southern certainly had a Social Media Policy when I was there. Be hard to find out who it was thou, as no crime has been committed, I guess Facebook/twitter wouldn't release details. Personally I'm glad the drivers/guards are doing this, more info lets people come to a more informed decision. [Link]
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7mins

In the bush 17 Dec 16 2.04pm

Originally posted by Helmet46

You're closer to making a valid point about posting on social media, Southern certainly had a Social Media Policy when I was there.

Be hard to find out who it was thou, as no crime has been committed, I guess Facebook/twitter wouldn't release details.

Personally I'm glad the drivers/guards are doing this, more info lets people come to a more informed decision.

[Link]

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 17 Dec 16 4.33pm
Originally posted by 7mins You're closer to making a valid point about posting on social media, Southern certainly had a Social Media Policy when I was there. Be hard to find out who it was thou, as no crime has been committed, I guess Facebook/twitter wouldn't release details. Personally I'm glad the drivers/guards are doing this, more info lets people come to a more informed decision. [Link] Don't upset Stuk by posting one sides argument. Apparently RMT press releases are irrelevant and all lies (despite no evidence to back this up or if it's even been read)
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 17 Dec 16 4.33pm

Originally posted by 7mins

You're closer to making a valid point about posting on social media, Southern certainly had a Social Media Policy when I was there.

Be hard to find out who it was thou, as no crime has been committed, I guess Facebook/twitter wouldn't release details.

Personally I'm glad the drivers/guards are doing this, more info lets people come to a more informed decision.

[Link]

Don't upset Stuk by posting one sides argument. Apparently RMT press releases are irrelevant and all lies (despite no evidence to back this up or if it's even been read)

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