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2020 US Presidential Election. (LOCKED)
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 Mapletree  Croydon 05 Oct 20 12.39pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
In your opinion perhaps but I disagree with you. The words 'black' or 'white' are just generalisms for ethnic groups. If you are making general points there's nothing wrong with them. If you regard those words as prerogative then that says more about your attitudes than the words themselves. It's only leftist thinking that has seen terms like BAME and PoC come into existence. If people want to refer to themselves or groups like that I've no issue with it....but for me, no one compels my speech. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Oct 2020 12.34pm) It's his prerogative whether or not he considers them pejorative innit. There is nothing wrong with Black or White as a description. Someone of the opposite colour generalising and calling people 'blacks' or 'whites/whiteys/spooks/putihs' is not very nice. Of course it depends both upon what was meant by the speaker and how it is taken by the hearer - both are important.
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cryrst  The garden of England 05 Oct 20 12.41pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
It's his prerogative whether or not he considers them pejorative innit. There is nothing wrong with Black or White as a description. Someone of the opposite colour generalising and calling people 'blacks' or 'whites/whiteys/spooks/putihs' is not very nice. Of course it depends both upon what was meant by the speaker and how it is taken by the hearer - both are important. Black peeps and white peeps?
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 05 Oct 20 12.45pm |
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Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly
So , Donald Trump, hospitalised and diagnosed as CV-19 positive,....gets into a car(an enclosed space) with his security people for a crowd wave. How stoopid are all the people involved ? and the muppets cheering,... I bet his campaign committee and the GOP leadership were not impressed. Typical Trump, putting a photo-op ahead of the safety of his staff. He wants to appear as "Macho-man" the superhero who viruses cannot stop. His dumb base might be impressed but I don't think this will do much to convinced anyone else that this man is worthy of being trusted again. He ought to be completely isolated and those who must be in contact with him must wear the full PPE. This leads to questions not yet being asked. To properly isolate, when you need the hands-on support of many people to carry out the role of POTUS, appears an impossibility. Is it therefore wise for him to be allowed to remain in post whilst infectious, let alone whilst incapacitated, or should he be required to stand aside and for Pence to assume the role until he is medically cleared to resume? That's why there is a VP! His job right now is to isolate and recover. It's not to look for photo-ops.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Spiderman Horsham 05 Oct 20 12.53pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I bet his campaign committee and the GOP leadership were not impressed. Typical Trump, putting a photo-op ahead of the safety of his staff. He wants to appear as "Macho-man" the superhero who viruses cannot stop. His dumb base might be impressed but I don't think this will do much to convinced anyone else that this man is worthy of being trusted again. He ought to be completely isolated and those who must be in contact with him must wear the full PPE. This leads to questions not yet being asked. To properly isolate, when you need the hands-on support of many people to carry out the role of POTUS, appears an impossibility. Is it therefore wise for him to be allowed to remain in post whilst infectious, let alone whilst incapacitated, or should he be required to stand aside and for Pence to assume the role until he is medically cleared to resume? That's why there is a VP! His job right now is to isolate and recover. It's not to look for photo-ops. Were there not posters on here who doubted he even had Covid? Same as when Boris had it
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| Stirlingsays 05 Oct 20 12.56pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Excuse me for interrupting but it seems to me you are missing the point. Again. It's not whether people care about being called something that matters. It's the mindset of those doing the calling which does. Dividing people into groups based on entirely arbitrary characteristics, like the colour of their skin or sexual orientation, inevitably leads to unreasonable assumptions and unequal treatment. We need to use relevant characteristics. Using the subject of this thread as an example dividing the US population between Trump supporters, Trump detractors and a few undecideds makes sense. Each group has people with every skin colour and sexual orientation in it. They share political and cultural attitudes. Those are real differences. There might be outcomes that are related to someone's characteristics 'arbitrary' or not that are negative or positive depending upon worldview. Only restricting commentary to what you view as positive isn't reality. I view the attempted control of language as authoritarian and an attempted restriction upon the liberties of others for ideologically 'progressive' reasons. What matters is what is true or more true not what is politically correct. Wanting to control what people can say is what both the communists and fascists do. If you disagree with someone's opinion, then why not detail as to why it might be factually wrong rather than push political correctness. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Oct 2020 12.58pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Mapletree Croydon 05 Oct 20 12.59pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Black peeps and white peeps? Quite so.
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| Stirlingsays 05 Oct 20 1.09pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
It's his prerogative whether or not he considers them pejorative innit. There is nothing wrong with Black or White as a description. Someone of the opposite colour generalising and calling people 'blacks' or 'whites/whiteys/spooks/putihs' is not very nice. Of course it depends both upon what was meant by the speaker and how it is taken by the hearer - both are important. Well, we kind of agree....though perhaps our level of concern differs. Was you moaning at Steely or Dan H when they were using the 'gammon' term? Not that I remember. Still, I recognise your personal distaste for labels. However, when I use the term 'blacks' it's to relate to a set of ethnic Afro-Caribbean groups that's far less vague than BAME or PoC. The point I might be making may be negative or positive. However, the fact that 'blacks' relates to Afro-Caribbeans isn't: It's just a word.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 05 Oct 20 1.26pm |
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Originally posted by matthau
Thank you for responding I get it with the trump stuff being linked to Epstein. But do you not think, that considering how much the dems want him out, and if you beleive like I do, the main stream media is totally corrupt and would love to do anything it could to get trump out of power, do you not think the Epstein stuff will had come out by now? They’ve tried Russia gate and failed. They will had tried this too if they thought it would hold weight.
Q is real. You saw the videos. Flynn talked about them openly. So often trump is giving off q signals. The coding video at the end shows this. Trump definitely is involved with them and whether they do any of the things they say, let’s see More about why I don’t beleive that trump is involved with Epstein - yes he hung with him but In my opinion only as they were in same rich circles. Nothing more Anyway this gives insight:
This Q conspiracy theory is getting a lot of social media attention at the moment. It used to be only in that strata of impressionable society in the USA that loves a good conspiracy theory and thinks that Alex Jones is a truth teller and Fox is a news outlet, when both spread propaganda. It's unfortunate that it now seems to be getting it's roots into the brains of normally more level headed Brits. Too much time on some people's hands for their own good at present! A Twitter post I read today from Louise Mensch:- "See this? It’s a Russian troll. Mocking Americans on the TL. 38 followers since 2013. Pumping out the #QTipAnon propaganda. The difference between now and most times is that for once, real, sane people I know are giving it credence. Please. Don’t." Edited by Wisbech Eagle (05 Oct 2020 1.28pm)
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Spiderman Horsham 05 Oct 20 1.53pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
This Q conspiracy theory is getting a lot of social media attention at the moment. It used to be only in that strata of impressionable society in the USA that loves a good conspiracy theory and thinks that Alex Jones is a truth teller and Fox is a news outlet, when both spread propaganda. It's unfortunate that it now seems to be getting it's roots into the brains of normally more level headed Brits. Too much time on some people's hands for their own good at present! A Twitter post I read today from Louise Mensch:- "See this? It’s a Russian troll. Mocking Americans on the TL. 38 followers since 2013. Pumping out the #QTipAnon propaganda. The difference between now and most times is that for once, real, sane people I know are giving it credence. Please. Don’t." Edited by Wisbech Eagle (05 Oct 2020 1.28pm) So is Fox the only news outlet that spreads propaganda?
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| Spiderman Horsham 05 Oct 20 1.55pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Well, we kind of agree....though perhaps our level of concern differs. Was you moaning at Steely or Dan H when they were using the 'gammon' term? Not that I remember. Still, I recognise your personal distaste for labels. However, when I use the term 'blacks' it's to relate to a set of ethnic Afro-Caribbean groups that's far less vague than BAME or PoC. The point I might be making may be negative or positive. However, the fact that 'blacks' relates to Afro-Caribbeans isn't: It's just a word.
Worked with a really nice chap who was Ghanaian, he heard me describe someone as coloured, he laughed and explained I could not do that I must call him black. He admitted that years ago black was not acceptable and people were called coloured, how times change!
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| Stirlingsays 05 Oct 20 2.09pm |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
Worked with a really nice chap who was Ghanaian, he heard me describe someone as coloured, he laughed and explained I could not do that I must call him black. He admitted that years ago black was not acceptable and people were called coloured, how times change! And now we have the 'person of colour' (PoC) term, which seems pretty similar. One thing to note is this continual near obsession in certain political mindsets with individualism and complaining about general terms. For me, both have their place depending upon the point you are making. Regardless, when an individual you know asks for a particular description I think most of us are ok with that....as long as it isn't compelled.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Matov 05 Oct 20 2.17pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
And now we have the 'person of colour' (PoC) term, which seems pretty similar. One thing to note is this continual near obsession in certain political mindsets with individualism and complaining about general terms. For me, both have their place depending upon the point you are making. Regardless, when an individual you know asks for a particular description I think most of us are ok with that....as long as it isn't compelled.
For example, BAME as a description essentially includes everybody who is not white/European heritage but in terms of discussion about social issues and/or prejudice and so on it is absolutely meaningless. For example people of Oriental Asian heritage actually do very well both academically and in business. Ditto with other groups. The proposal was that, and specificaly within a US setting, the acronym 'Americans of Slave Descent' (AOSD) might actually be a better way of specifically identifying the group with the most issues as opposed to just definining it soley as Whites v Everybody else. The notion that AOSD's were the only group of immigrants to the US whose forefathers had no choice in moving there is an absolutely valid one and their collective experience is totally different to say somebody whose grandparents came, of their own free-will, from South Korean or even Nigeria. It is this notion of white bad/everything else good narrartive that not only completely distorts the picture but also helps prevent any kind of targetted help of groups who might genuinely need it. Edited by Matov (05 Oct 2020 2.18pm)
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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