This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In
Hrolf The Ganger 22 Jun 16 10.05am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by topcat
So it's true.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Jun 16 10.31am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by DivingIsNotGood
Be very very interesting to see who Thomas Mair was really encouraged by online. If the truth could ever be exposed you'd find it's a Mi5 agent acting like a racist nutcase telling mair what to do. The entire act is a setup but looks so convincing. The government would have had years and years worth of data mental health records on Mair, just need a few prompts to push him over the edge from his special online friends (aka Mi5). The whole thing is playing out like The Trueman Show. There is a big difference between how you think MI-5 operates and how it actually operates. MI-5 agents spend most of their time in meetings and compiling reports and interpreting information than conducting secret missions and conspiracies. That's what assets are for. Now I would be very surprised if Britain First, the BNP et al didn't have people who were passing information on to MI-5, but its not really the kind of thing they do, targeting 'mentally unstable' people to murder politicians. I accept it might very well be willing to manipulate people to do away with dangers and threats to the UK. That's not really how MI-5 works. Most domestic intelligence agencies don't kill their own citizens, because that's the kind of order, that causes agents to start leaking or breaking cover to expose them (remember most people join MI-5 to protect people, much like people join the army - Ordering the army to attack its own citizens, generally ends badly as well). Whilst I don't doubt that MI-5 has had its hands in the pies of a few murders, especially in NI, killing an elected MP in the UK isn't their bag. Especially using a mentally unstable asset, who could bring the whole house of cards down.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Hrolf The Ganger 22 Jun 16 11.53am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by jamiemartin721
There is a big difference between how you think MI-5 operates and how it actually operates. MI-5 agents spend most of their time in meetings and compiling reports and interpreting information than conducting secret missions and conspiracies. That's what assets are for. Now I would be very surprised if Britain First, the BNP et al didn't have people who were passing information on to MI-5, but its not really the kind of thing they do, targeting 'mentally unstable' people to murder politicians. I accept it might very well be willing to manipulate people to do away with dangers and threats to the UK. That's not really how MI-5 works. Most domestic intelligence agencies don't kill their own citizens, because that's the kind of order, that causes agents to start leaking or breaking cover to expose them (remember most people join MI-5 to protect people, much like people join the army - Ordering the army to attack its own citizens, generally ends badly as well). Whilst I don't doubt that MI-5 has had its hands in the pies of a few murders, especially in NI, killing an elected MP in the UK isn't their bag. Especially using a mentally unstable asset, who could bring the whole house of cards down. Oswald was unstable and I'm sure he was used and then killed. Let's see if our man survives to his trial and that should tell us what we need to know. Having said that, Mark Chapman is still alive so by that logic, he really did kill Lennon because he was a nut, or the logic is totally flawed.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Jun 16 12.27pm | |
---|---|
Oswald wasn't mentally ill though - not in the disordered sense - Of course I suspect he was part of some kind of conspiracy, but nothing really dramatic. Also Kennedy was a president of the USA, who had made some rather serious enemies in the Soviet Union (Cuban Missile Crisis) and Cuba (Bay of Pigs). I wouldn't have put it beyond reason, that the soviets or elements in the soviets had recruited Oswald during his time in the soviet union. There were certainly factions in Cuba and the Soviet that had an axe to grind over those two issues (not to mention the repeated attempts by the US to kill Castro). Also Organised crime in the US had some serious issues with Kennedy (though whether the Mafia or families of the time would have sanctioned the murder of a president is questionable). Where as Muir seems to have a history of psychiatric illness, which makes people really unreliable as assassins, and his target was someone no one really knew or had heard of prior to being murdered. My suspicion is that Oswald was the trigger man, and that the Cubans and/or soviets pointed him towards 'doing it' and he wanted 'in with them', and those involved were out of the country long before the shots were fired.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
johnfirewall 22 Jun 16 12.28pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch
Why target her? It is too random and you could not guarantee that the person would go through with it or if they did, when. Then due to their mental state you have no idea if they will blab. There's lots of ways to bump people off that would have been far more effective. As I have said previously, I have no doubt that skullduggery occurs but as I have also said I think that people give governments far too much credit That question probably raises my biggest doubts over the theory. Yes, an MP while lesser known is a more relevant target, but then her other work was more relevant to this lunatic's grievance than her stance on the EU. Overall, does this really discredit the Leave campaign any more than the already prevalent accusations of racism? While only a slim margin is required is there any real gain from further demonization, or simply the sympathy vote? I'm note sure they were that desperate. Interesting she was on the boat with Geldof though. Edited by johnfirewall (22 Jun 2016 12.29pm)
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 22 Jun 16 1.05pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Oswald wasn't mentally ill though - not in the disordered sense - Of course I suspect he was part of some kind of conspiracy, but nothing really dramatic. Also Kennedy was a president of the USA, who had made some rather serious enemies in the Soviet Union (Cuban Missile Crisis) and Cuba (Bay of Pigs). I wouldn't have put it beyond reason, that the soviets or elements in the soviets had recruited Oswald during his time in the soviet union. There were certainly factions in Cuba and the Soviet that had an axe to grind over those two issues (not to mention the repeated attempts by the US to kill Castro). Also Organised crime in the US had some serious issues with Kennedy (though whether the Mafia or families of the time would have sanctioned the murder of a president is questionable). Where as Muir seems to have a history of psychiatric illness, which makes people really unreliable as assassins, and his target was someone no one really knew or had heard of prior to being murdered. My suspicion is that Oswald was the trigger man, and that the Cubans and/or soviets pointed him towards 'doing it' and he wanted 'in with them', and those involved were out of the country long before the shots were fired. And very conveniently topped before he could come to trial, by someone who himself was terminally ill.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Jun 16 1.06pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I don't support this scenario. I merely don't dismiss it as impossible. I'd say that judging by the response, she appears to have been the perfect target. I think that's a reasonable approach, one should not dismiss the improbable simply because its unlikely, but the first step should be to eliminate the probable before accepting it. Mr O'Crams toothbrush of something.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 22 Jun 16 1.09pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by DivingIsNotGood
It's so interesting you picked those links. I believe the road rage attack in Worthing is linked. Gives more weight to stories if these so called mentally ill folk hitting out in random attacks! First page of Google
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Jun 16 1.18pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Cucking Funt
And very conveniently topped before he could come to trial, by someone who himself was terminally ill. Although if you were planning on eliminating your assassin, its probably a better idea to do so before they're captured and spend time being interrogated. Its also seems that Ruby wasn't diagnosed with Cancer until three months before he died (1967).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Jun 16 1.26pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by DivingIsNotGood
It's so interesting you picked those links. I believe the road rage attack in Worthing is linked. Gives more weight to stories if these so called mentally ill folk hitting out in random attacks! Mentally ill is probably somewhat unfair, given that on the whole the mentally ill are more at risk from normal people and themselves, rather than a risk to others. I don't think it was a random attack, I think its likely Muir planned it and in his mind, saw himself as firing 'the first round' in some kind of revolution or something similar. Whether he cared who the target was specifically, is a question of debate. Likely as not, it was aimed at what he considered 'the enemy' and 'Remain' had become that in his mind - and Jo Cox one way or another came to symbolise that within a growing delusion. It wouldn't be a random outburst, given it seems he may have manufactured a gun etc. But a disordered mind can be capable of quite rational behaviour and organisation.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Hrolf The Ganger 22 Jun 16 2.03pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Oswald wasn't mentally ill though - not in the disordered sense - Of course I suspect he was part of some kind of conspiracy, but nothing really dramatic. Also Kennedy was a president of the USA, who had made some rather serious enemies in the Soviet Union (Cuban Missile Crisis) and Cuba (Bay of Pigs). I wouldn't have put it beyond reason, that the soviets or elements in the soviets had recruited Oswald during his time in the soviet union. There were certainly factions in Cuba and the Soviet that had an axe to grind over those two issues (not to mention the repeated attempts by the US to kill Castro). Also Organised crime in the US had some serious issues with Kennedy (though whether the Mafia or families of the time would have sanctioned the murder of a president is questionable). Where as Muir seems to have a history of psychiatric illness, which makes people really unreliable as assassins, and his target was someone no one really knew or had heard of prior to being murdered. My suspicion is that Oswald was the trigger man, and that the Cubans and/or soviets pointed him towards 'doing it' and he wanted 'in with them', and those involved were out of the country long before the shots were fired. I have the CIA nailed on for Kennedy. OSwald was probabaly not clinically insane but just damaged and easily lead enough to be used. Ruby had connections to the mob and let's face it , we can only speculate about why he shot Oswald. On face value, it seems like a very odd occurrence and even Ruby said that people would never believe the truth.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Hrolf The Ganger 22 Jun 16 2.07pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I think that's a reasonable approach, one should not dismiss the improbable simply because its unlikely, but the first step should be to eliminate the probable before accepting it. Mr O'Crams toothbrush of something. Occam's Razor. Although the most likely is by no means the answer every time. Life is stranger than fiction.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Registration is now on our new message board
To login with your existing username you will need to convert your account over to the new message board.
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2024 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.