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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?
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 Nicholas91  The Democratic Republic of Kent 25 Feb 22 12.15am |
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Just out of interest, has it been at all touted or even suggested that this may be seen as somewhat of a 'last hurrah' for Putin? He's not a young man by any stretch and I would certainly be inclined to believe his aspirations for himself are far more invested in the dreamed up Statues and Bairds singing songs about him, or at least a (subjectively) impressive page on Wikipedia, as opposed to any material gain for himself? Genuine question feel free to ridicule if so, I just struggle to imagine that this is for any other benefit than his own. I choose to remain wilfully ignorant to a certain degree on some matters, to be quite honest I consider my time better spent pondering whether Andy Johnson would still be in relatively decent shape and therefore able to play a role as the ultimate 'super sub' in some matches, at least it would be easier to provide/unearth evidence to support this theory. I am not trying to provoke anybody intentionally here, but there does seem to be a fair lot of unsubstantiated nonsense posted on these forums, let alone Twitter etc, and perhaps there is a more simple, if not sensible, explanation at play? I would not completely ridicule any theory given I am not proclaiming or even attempting to pose as some sort of oracle of intelligence above the next Joe, however on this one I find it hard to believe that there can be any great motive beyond the suggestion it may just be a virtually unscrutiniseable (almost certain that's not a word) leader, of a very big and fairly economically/militarily etc powerful nation who is trying to achieve something that the rest of the world would most probably categorise as an aspiration of yesteryear, especially given the mass exposure to information/info. sharing and levels of education and communication, so on, so forth and to hell with the despotic rules of grammar here. Just to round off, I find it exceptionally hard to envisage Putin on his knees, or whatever, at night 'praying' to a deity of his choosing asking only for the strength to make the world as best place as possible for the people of Russia etc and an end of the tyranny of the democratic West. Just my two cents, or 4 million Roubles or whatever the exchange rate is set to be these days! Goodnight and.. Goodluck! {Insert gif of David Strathairn as Edward R. Murrow here} Edited by Nicholas91 (25 Feb 2022 12.28am)
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
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HKOwen  Hong Kong 25 Feb 22 12.29am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Putin's initial justification for this has been to stop Ukraine joining Nato, even though no formal application had been made. Now he wants to re-write history and claim that Ukraine is still part of Russia and the separation after the collapse of the Soviet Union was illegal. This has always puzzled me. Nato's whole purpose is defensive. It's constitution, expressed in the original treaty, does not allow for any kind of aggressive action. It not only has no obvious reason or desire to attack Russia, it would fall apart if it tried to. The defensive lines Nato has established in the previous Soviet Union countries, which have borders with Russia, are purely to deter aggression. The comments found in this thread which apologise for Putin's reasoning are therefore, in my opinion, misunderstanding the truth. He might be able to sell this to his own people, but we know better, or ought to. Why he now seeks to rewrite history can only be guessed at. No-one knows what he wants, or why he wants it. I heard an interesting theory this evening on Radio 4, but did not note the person making it as I was driving. This linked right wing populism, and a need to demonstrate a macho attitude, with Putin and people like Trump and Orban. (Trump having praised him in the last few days). The suggestion being that he needs to prove his strength to himself. Some comments to be read in this thread, whilst putting some distance from the action, nevertheless express admiration for the style of the man taking it. The suggestion was this is all part of a worldwide phenomenon, Putin just being an extreme Russian example, who is also effectively a dictator. Who knows? Is he rational? Is he well? Who can restrain him?
Let me explain slowly, NATO membership is an enshrined target in the Ukrainian constitution. Whether or not Ukraine sends an application form to NATO again as they did in 2008, the intention is clear.
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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cryrst  The garden of England 25 Feb 22 12.31am |
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It could just be that ukraine is mineral, fossil, food and manufacturing rich. Just a thought as it's why Hitler went into Russia.
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| HKOwen Hong Kong 25 Feb 22 12.35am |
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Putin looked at a divided and weak West whose politicians were happy to give up energy security and were more concerned with culture wars than basic national security. Sanctions will take so long to be effective they are virtually useless to do anything relative to Ukraine. Everyone ignored what was happening in the Donbas, when was it in the news since 2014 and now.
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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Ouzo Dan  Behind you 25 Feb 22 1.15am |
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Originally posted by HKOwen
Putin looked at a divided and weak West whose politicians were happy to give up energy security and were more concerned with culture wars than basic national security. Sanctions will take so long to be effective they are virtually useless to do anything relative to Ukraine. Everyone ignored what was happening in the Donbas, when was it in the news since 2014 and now. 100% correct It seems Russia's day 1 invasion strategy has stalled. If has been mooted we see NATO establish a no fly zone over Ukraine then I can see Russia having real problems. Rumours of a huge Russian assault on Kyiv starting soon.
The mountains are calling & I must go. |
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| BlueJay UK 25 Feb 22 1.18am |
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"The mayor of Kyiv, Vitali Klitschko, plans to take up arms to defend against Russia's invasion along with his brother, Wladimir. " Fighters and men of principle in and outside of the ring. Likely, sad times ahead for Kyiv as the poster above stated.
Edited by BlueJay (25 Feb 2022 1.20am)
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Forest Hillbilly  in a hidey-hole 25 Feb 22 4.48am |
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As Russia expands to re-establish the USSR, a largely ignored consequence is the dismantling of NATO, who have been made to look like inconsequential muppets. And the point of NATO is/was ?
I disengage, I turn the page. |
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Matov  25 Feb 22 6.03am |
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You would have thought that with all this talk of sanctions and looking to hurt the Russians economically then you would see the EU decide to stop buying its gas which is, after all, one of its primary exports. But oddly, nothing much at all. Weird that.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| cryrst The garden of England 25 Feb 22 7.25am |
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Originally posted by Matov
You would have thought that with all this talk of sanctions and looking to hurt the Russians economically then you would see the EU decide to stop buying its gas which is, after all, one of its primary exports. But oddly, nothing much at all. Weird that. Or we could all get a wind turbine and an electric vehicle.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 25 Feb 22 7.59am |
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Originally posted by Matov
You would have thought that with all this talk of sanctions and looking to hurt the Russians economically then you would see the EU decide to stop buying its gas which is, after all, one of its primary exports. But oddly, nothing much at all. Weird that. The reaction in the west has been typical to say the least. Let me be clear I do not want us to go to war with Russia or send our troops. EU - Confused and moribund. Germany and Italy ared blocking stronger sanctions. The US and UK want to ban Russia from SWIFT those of us who worked in banking will know what this means. Feeble EU wants a chair at the big table but wont do anything when it gets one. Labour. Very very predictably Labour MPs go off on a tangent about Palestine, give it a rest the public already think you are anti-Semitic comparing Palestine and Ukraine is just pointless. So lots of hot air and rubbish being spoken by politicians and no real action.
Edited by Badger11 (25 Feb 2022 8.03am)
One more point |
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| HKOwen Hong Kong 25 Feb 22 8.26am |
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Originally posted by Matov
You would have thought that with all this talk of sanctions and looking to hurt the Russians economically then you would see the EU decide to stop buying its gas which is, after all, one of its primary exports. But oddly, nothing much at all. Weird that. Quite expected from the useless German led EU, lots of word salad but nothing tangible, Germany is Russia's energy bitch
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 25 Feb 22 9.12am |
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Originally posted by HKOwen
Let me explain slowly, NATO membership is an enshrined target in the Ukrainian constitution. Whether or not Ukraine sends an application form to NATO again as they did in 2008, the intention is clear. Explaining it "slowly" or repeatedly, doesn't change facts. No application has been made, let alone accepted. You could include a desire in your personal manifesto to join The Hurlingham Club, but that doesn't mean you will be accepted. Aside from that, as Nato's whole purpose is to deter aggression and not be aggressive, why should Russia fear it? They would not be seeking to invade Russia. They would deter what Russia is now doing. Putin's presentation of this is to re-ignite the fears of the Russians that stem from WW2. Fears that are not real in 2022. Nato is not a threat to Russia. Nato is a threat to Putin's desire to re-establish the Soviet Union. Putin is KGB, a mobster whose politics are closer to Al Capone than Al Gore. His thinking has never progressed beyond the hurt he suffered when the Soviet Union collapsed. With the benefit of hindsight we should have ostracised him years ago. He has no morals. No desire to serve his fellow man. For him, it's all about power and who wields it. We will now enter a new cold war which will last until Putin is replaced. It will be economically painful for all and environmentally damaging.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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