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jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Sep 15 4.50pm | |
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Quote serial thriller at 05 Sep 2015 4.32pm
Quote sickboy at 05 Sep 2015 4.12pm
Quote serial thriller at 05 Sep 2015 3.41pm
Quote sickboy at 05 Sep 2015 3.29pm
Quote dannyboy1978 at 05 Sep 2015 2.41pm
Quote sa_eagle at 05 Sep 2015 10.26am
He had a name...
This boy was in Turkey, a safe country so the father has blood on his hands! I have to agree. Cucking made a great point the other day. Once you reach a safe haven as a refugee and decide to move on to somewhere that you favour or may be profitable you become a migrant. That changes your status on the political landscape. Also why risk your families lives to move on from a safe country like Turkey.
Surely if you have fled a war which began a few years ago and you have a family, your aspirations are going to be a bit higher than living in a tent eating gruel for a decade? Read it again. The difference is in the wording. Migrants are not the se as refugees. Even if you are , in your words, eating gruel ,you are safe. Does that make it ok to put you and your family back in danger to improve your living conditions. No it doesnt if we follow the point of this thread which is action off the back of that picture of the dead child. Turkey is safe and they would have been processed in due course. There was no need to board that boat.
1) do you therefore believe it is a legitimate asylum policy to house people in tents indefinitely, even as winter approaches? 2) As someone about to go to Turkey long term, I can assure you efficiency in granting visas is not one of their strong points. They have an incredibly conservative government, and their leader President Erdogan has just come out backing Putin's claim that the migrants are the West's problem. In diplomacy talk, that effectively means Turkey aren't going to keep taking tens of thousands of refugees in for much longer. 3) And this is a point which remains conveniently ignored by pretty much everyone. We bombed the sh*t out of Libya, we weaponised the Ethiopians who are causing thousands of Eritreans to flee their home country, and our attempts at 'tackling ISIS' have been an absolute disaster, teaming up with Turkey who are more interested in bombing the Kurds fighting them. Why do you, and others, believe we have no obligation at all in taking in the product of our own catastrophic foreign policy? Turkey as at least 1m Syrian Refugees, and expects this to rise to 1.9m by the end of 2015.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Kermit8 Hevon 05 Sep 15 5.10pm | |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 05 Sep 2015 3.55pm
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 05 Sep 2015 3.50pm
Matthew Pinsent nailed it @matthewcpinsent: 80yrs ago Nicholas Winton organised trains to get children safely to the UK. We later knighted him. What the hell have we become?
I bet old Pinsent, who is directly descended from Thomas Howard, 2nd Duke of Norfolk.....who rowed for Eton, has a nice house to live in......I bet he doesn't compete for a job with immigrants. I bet he doesn't have to spend hours waiting for a GP appointment The man enjoyed a life amongst the elites....Never had to muck it out. Yeah, what have we become Matthew......Did you complain about having it better than over ninety percent of the country or did you just take the advantages.
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Stirlingsays 05 Sep 15 5.12pm | |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 05 Sep 2015 4.50pm
Turkey won't have it.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Kermit8 Hevon 05 Sep 15 5.19pm | |
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The total population of northern western europe is 280million. If we all mucked in and took in 1million in total refugees from Syria then that is merely a 0.3% increase spread out over 6 or 7 countries. We will cope. They cannot.
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ZIGnZAG Stoke 05 Sep 15 5.27pm | |
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Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 05 Sep 2015 3.35pm
Quote ZIGnZAG at 05 Sep 2015 12.49pm
Quote oldcodger at 05 Sep 2015 12.06pm
Quote ZIGnZAG at 05 Sep 2015 11.54am
Quote oldcodger at 05 Sep 2015 11.01am
Quote ZIGnZAG at 05 Sep 2015 10.32am
Quote sa_eagle at 05 Sep 2015 10.26am
He had a name...
There is a callous attitude displayed by some on here towards those in need that weren't born here. I don't think censoring grim realities particularly helps that.
This picture has undeniably resulted in a change in tone of how this crisis is reported, even in the right wing rags. It's also no doubt contributed to the decision to take more refugees in. So there's that. The tone of how it's reported has sunk to a woman thinking it's ok to photograph a dead child. And people being encouraged to view that image, as it gets shared around the world. The fact that there are more refugees, and countries being forced to act like they 'care', means more refugees are being taken in. Taking a picture is wrong / sick but not wanting to help isn't? What's wrong did it put you off your cornflakes? There's a very real problem at the moment and not doing anything simply isn't an option. It doesn't stop people from coming does it? Yes taking that picture was wrong, very very wrong. If you can't understand that, if you really think it's ok to photograph or look at an image of a dead child, then you are seriously sick in the head. Who said anything about not wanting to help anybody. Unless your talking about that photographer, not helping that little boy, not showing him respect, not moving his body or covering it up. Yes there is a very real problem, yet most people need to accept that acting like you actually give a s***, is in fact, achieving sweet FA.
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Stirlingsays 05 Sep 15 5.30pm | |
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Quote Mr Palaceman at 05 Sep 2015 4.37pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 05 Sep 2015 3.55pm
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 05 Sep 2015 3.50pm
Matthew Pinsent nailed it @matthewcpinsent: 80yrs ago Nicholas Winton organised trains to get children safely to the UK. We later knighted him. What the hell have we become?
I bet old Pinsent, who is directly descended from Thomas Howard, 2nd Duke of Norfolk.....who rowed for Eton, has a nice house to live in......I bet he doesn't compete for a job with immigrants. I bet he doesn't have to spend hours waiting for a GP appointment The man enjoyed a life amongst the elites....Never had to muck it out. Yeah, what have we become Matthew......Did you complain about having it better than over ninety percent of the country or did you just take the advantages.
As a teacher, do you have to compete with migrants for your job? (Genuine question, not a dig). Also I can't remember time last time I couldn't get an appointment to see a doctor the same day if I call up in the morning and if I call in the afternoon I can get an appointment for the following morning, despite the current "crisis" in the NHS. The irony for me is that I would not get any appointment if it was not for the work that foreign doctors and nurses do in the NHS. I would love us to train more doctors and nurses so we wouldn't have to rely on migrants coming into the NHS but for whatever reason and there are many that is not the reality. Either we cannot attract to right people to the jobs, we are not able to pay enough or people are just not interested in doing such a hard and demanding job. I wouldn't want to do it. I have followed this and the other "migrant" threads on the site and I think that there are very good points on both sides. We can't have unrestricted migration into the country, It's just not feasible but it's clear that we can do a lot more than we do to help. I must say that my heart was warmed by the scenes in Munich. I am pleased that ordinary people still give a damn. For me the world is in a poor state because people just don't care about other people and not because of those people that do care and spend their time to help.
I'd probably like to deport people like Seymour too. To answer your question of course I don't have to compete with migrants. That's the point. Unlike Pinsent, I care about the affect on this country's working class....I grew up on a council estate and fought my way up. Immigration in this country has already been hundreds of thousands too many for over a decade. Outside of asylum houses in this country should, by and large, go to the British. I see many of these Syrians as looking to come to the EU for a life upgrade. People like me and most others were shocked by that little boy's death....Even though countless children have died in the med now...Even so, when you learn about the story of the father who was living in Turkey not escaping from Syria....Tell you everything right there. There are an awful high number of single young men......Stay in your country and fight for it.....Like I would. This country is already helping money wise....More than most countries. I agree with helping a reasonable amount, but I'm not going to support this state taking responsibility for foreigners outside of a set number on asylum.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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sickboy Deal or Croydon 05 Sep 15 5.31pm | |
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Quote ZIGnZAG at 05 Sep 2015 5.27pm
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 05 Sep 2015 3.35pm
Quote ZIGnZAG at 05 Sep 2015 12.49pm
Quote oldcodger at 05 Sep 2015 12.06pm
Quote ZIGnZAG at 05 Sep 2015 11.54am
Quote oldcodger at 05 Sep 2015 11.01am
Quote ZIGnZAG at 05 Sep 2015 10.32am
Quote sa_eagle at 05 Sep 2015 10.26am
He had a name...
There is a callous attitude displayed by some on here towards those in need that weren't born here. I don't think censoring grim realities particularly helps that.
This picture has undeniably resulted in a change in tone of how this crisis is reported, even in the right wing rags. It's also no doubt contributed to the decision to take more refugees in. So there's that. The tone of how it's reported has sunk to a woman thinking it's ok to photograph a dead child. And people being encouraged to view that image, as it gets shared around the world. The fact that there are more refugees, and countries being forced to act like they 'care', means more refugees are being taken in. Taking a picture is wrong / sick but not wanting to help isn't? What's wrong did it put you off your cornflakes? There's a very real problem at the moment and not doing anything simply isn't an option. It doesn't stop people from coming does it? Yes taking that picture was wrong, very very wrong. If you can't understand that, if you really think it's ok to photograph or look at an image of a dead child, then you are seriously sick in the head. Who said anything about not wanting to help anybody. Unless your talking about that photographer, not helping that little boy, not showing him respect, not moving his body or covering it up. Yes there is a very real problem, yet most people need to accept that acting like you actually give a s***, is in fact, achieving sweet FA.
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Kermit8 Hevon 05 Sep 15 5.33pm | |
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A long time ago there was a worldwide picture of a naked teenage girl running with US napalm burning her body. It helped end the Vietnam War. The picture of the kid was necessary to give a symbolic slap around the face to those in power to do something. it seems to be working to an extent. Zig - you are missing the positive points such images can have. The Belsen film is another. Shocking but also truth home-hitting. Like the little boy. Edited by Kermit8 (05 Sep 2015 5.33pm)
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Stirlingsays 05 Sep 15 5.35pm | |
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Quote Kermit8 at 05 Sep 2015 5.19pm
The total population of northern western europe is 280million. If we all mucked in and took in 1million in total refugees from Syria then that is merely a 0.3% increase spread out over 6 or 7 countries. We will cope. They cannot.
Western Europe isn't a collective, despite how you like to see it. It isn't just Britain saying no to this......And your figures aren't realistic anyway.....An open door will just mean countless more coming every year. Besides....As far as I see, Germany and Sweden have open doors.....Let them live with there open door politics ....As you lefties say, it will even 'benefit' the country....Help the economy massively....They won't want to live without them. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Sep 2015 5.36pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Kermit8 Hevon 05 Sep 15 5.39pm | |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 05 Sep 2015 5.30pm
Quote Mr Palaceman at 05 Sep 2015 4.37pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 05 Sep 2015 3.55pm
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 05 Sep 2015 3.50pm
Matthew Pinsent nailed it @matthewcpinsent: 80yrs ago Nicholas Winton organised trains to get children safely to the UK. We later knighted him. What the hell have we become?
I bet old Pinsent, who is directly descended from Thomas Howard, 2nd Duke of Norfolk.....who rowed for Eton, has a nice house to live in......I bet he doesn't compete for a job with immigrants. I bet he doesn't have to spend hours waiting for a GP appointment The man enjoyed a life amongst the elites....Never had to muck it out. Yeah, what have we become Matthew......Did you complain about having it better than over ninety percent of the country or did you just take the advantages.
As a teacher, do you have to compete with migrants for your job? (Genuine question, not a dig). Also I can't remember time last time I couldn't get an appointment to see a doctor the same day if I call up in the morning and if I call in the afternoon I can get an appointment for the following morning, despite the current "crisis" in the NHS. The irony for me is that I would not get any appointment if it was not for the work that foreign doctors and nurses do in the NHS. I would love us to train more doctors and nurses so we wouldn't have to rely on migrants coming into the NHS but for whatever reason and there are many that is not the reality. Either we cannot attract to right people to the jobs, we are not able to pay enough or people are just not interested in doing such a hard and demanding job. I wouldn't want to do it. I have followed this and the other "migrant" threads on the site and I think that there are very good points on both sides. We can't have unrestricted migration into the country, It's just not feasible but it's clear that we can do a lot more than we do to help. I must say that my heart was warmed by the scenes in Munich. I am pleased that ordinary people still give a damn. For me the world is in a poor state because people just don't care about other people and not because of those people that do care and spend their time to help.
I'd probably like to deport people like Seymour too. To answer your question of course I don't have to compete with migrants. That's the point. Unlike Pinsent, I care about the affect on this country's working class....I grew up on a council estate and fought my way up. Immigration in this country has already been hundreds of thousands too many for over a decade. Outside of asylum houses in this country should, by and large, go to the British. I see many of these Syrians as looking to come to the EU for a life upgrade. People like me and most others were shocked by that little boy's death....Even though countless children have died in the med now...Even so, when you learn about the story of the father who was living in Turkey not escaping from Syria....Tell you everything right there. There are an awful high number of single young men......Stay in your country and fight for it.....Like I would. This country is already helping money wise....More than most countries. I agree with helping a reasonable amount, but I'm not going to support this state taking responsibility for foreigners outside of a set number on asylum.
Young German men leaving the mother-country in the 1930's were doing the right thing it turns out. Maybe these guys are not aligned to any group in Syria and can see no point in choosing probable death when a life is available if they leave.
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Stirlingsays 05 Sep 15 5.39pm | |
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Quote Kermit8 at 05 Sep 2015 5.33pm
A long time ago there was a worldwide picture of a naked teenage girl running with US napalm burning her body. It helped end the Vietnam War. The picture of the kid was necessary to give a symbolic slap around the face to those in power to do something. it seems to be working to an extent. Zig - you are missing the positive points such images can have. The Belsen film is another. Shocking but also truth home-hitting. Like the little boy. Edited by Kermit8 (05 Sep 2015 5.33pm) When the Americans left South Vietnam and the North came in......Thousands of people were executed with bullets into their heads. Did you see those pictures? Would that have changed your mind about the US leaving. Mr black and white.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 05 Sep 15 5.40pm | |
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I think what the government should do is create some kind of ‘temporary asylum' status meaning that once whichever conflict is over then the people would fled from there would need to return home again.
"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit |
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