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jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Jun 17 2.33pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Taking out our differences towards defence I agree with you. On vanity projects the wisdom or lack of it over the northern/southern rail project is an interesting one. A thread on that would be informative. As for the shelved 'garden bridge' I personally was saddened to see it go. Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jun 2017 12.55pm) I was struggling to think of an example (I'm not against retaining a deterrent). Its more the contradiction between not being able to employ police officers against a present and real threat to life, but we can to a future possible threat. It wasn't specifically about Trident
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Stirlingsays 15 Jun 17 2.48pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I was struggling to think of an example (I'm not against retaining a deterrent). Its more the contradiction between not being able to employ police officers against a present and real threat to life, but we can to a future possible threat. It wasn't specifically about Trident I think the Tories are misguided on Police numbers.....In a lot of ways the Tory administration reminds me of a student nurse constantly trying to patch up wounds without really knowing how best to do it. Not that this means that I think Corbyn would ultimately improve things long term. If we can effectively deter then the method of doing it shouldn't matter. I have no other choice but to trust those in control to achieve this. I'm hoping that technology defence systems will eventually ultimately make payload delivery systems an ineffective choice and hence not cost effective....I know we are a long way from achieving this. Then I'd imagine it's about making making small nuclear devices that can be constructed in a hidden but populated place ineffective.....Some way of detecting the materials effectively perhaps. I have more faith in technology to solve these problems...despite its counter race element... than any politician or written agreement.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Jun 17 2.52pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
The chancellor is running out of avenues where he can collect tax which is why he attempted to reign in the self-employed. Now the burden of tax should be falling on those able to carry it in other words those who actually have the money. So the govt. having penalised the 'just getting by' and the poor since the crash may now have to turn to their own supporters and donors, corporations and the wealthy. They have enjoyed the years since the financial crisis making little or no contribution to the country at the expense of the many who have and whose outlook is worse not better. I'd rather see rises across the board, on income tax, and dividends, rather than a tax aimed at just the top 1%. Its not because I love the top 1%, but that all of society should contribute, not just 'the people who don't vote for you'. The cost of society should be born by its citizens as a whole, and its businesses. Companies that attempt to escape tax revenue, should be refused access to UK Markets. And no should UK arms of companies by offsetting losses made outside the UK by against UK Tax. The system has to be fair(ish) if its to work, and that means everyone has to be contributing equally - All citizens, as one. If necessary, I'd rather see higher levies on things like inheritance (widows and spouse excepted), capital gains and duties rather than targeting that specifically targets peoples income bracket. It might really suck to pay 40% inheritance taxes for your parents house, or savings - but it isn't you who worked for it after all. Its still kind of 'free money'.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Jun 17 2.57pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I think the Tories are misguided on Police numbers.....In a lot of ways the Tory administration reminds me of a student nurse constantly trying to patch up wounds without really knowing how best to do it. Not that this means that I think Corbyn would ultimately improve things long term. I suspect that anti-terrorism probably isn't really affected by spending cuts at all, not directly. However, if it isn't, that's because cuts were made elsewhere to provide anti-terrorism and close protection police - which in turn means police cuts in other areas, which affect people far more and far more frequently than police, and in cross over services. People would tend to think that response to terrorism after the London Bridge attacks is 'anti-terrorism' but its not, it was police armed response teams. Anti-terrorism and counter-terrorism is pro-active rather than reactive.
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 15 Jun 17 3.05pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
It doesn't matter how I perceive it. It doesn't matter how you perceive it. What matters is what the effect of the policies are. Is more money raised or less....Is it more effective in the long term or not? I have zero problems with improving infrastructure and public services. What I have a problem with are selling fantasy methods for doing it. I don't think they are honest. People do not pay tax willingly if they can avoid it. For me to have to say this is what is ridiculous. If you want to actually improve tax take you should look to improve profitability as your first port of call. If you are going to attempt to sell any other method then first tell me how you are going to force people to keep their money here and invest? People with money tend to be jealous with it....that's why they have it. Correlation and causation are two different things. If you look at the reasons for increased tax take it's very hard to argue that decreasing the rate lead to increased tax revenues. There are other reasons for increased profitability. If anything you could argue that, if returns are measured after tax, then decreasing the rate allows lower effort and productivity to achieve the same targets. In reality most businesses look at metrics such as operating cash flows and EBITDA as measures of performance and benchmarking. The incentives to maximise profits don't fall away at the kind of relatively low rates we're debating. True if you get back up to 40-50% CT then the incentives would wear thin but not at 26%. The best way to improve profitability is to look at improving productivity (reducing inequality helps a lot with this), providing a healthy, motivated and well educated workforce and improving national infrastructure (investment) such as transport, roads and 5G/broadband. Paying a few extra % in CT for companies is well worth it for such a return.
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 15 Jun 17 3.06pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Yes, they have widened the tax base but that is only part of why the tax take went up. Increased profits were the main reason. That's what the FT directly said and you state as barmy. State where the financial times was wrong. Does the FT states that the REASON for increased profitability was a reduced tax rate? NO.
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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 15 Jun 17 3.33pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Terrible idea. Massively regressive. Would make us poorer as a society and increase inequality, which is bad for the economy. No it means that you keep more of what you earn and spend it accordingly on White goods,holidays, food & drink etc where you pay a higher VAT rate.
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Stirlingsays 15 Jun 17 3.38pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Does the FT states that the REASON for increased profitability was a reduced tax rate? NO. God you're hilarious. From what I read...well yeah it's a main factor.
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steeleye20 Croydon 15 Jun 17 4.11pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
When you have taken all the money from those that have it and given it to those who do not, and the companies that produce wealth have ceased to operate, and the recently enriched people have spent all their new money, what do you do? Edited by hedgehog50 (15 Jun 2017 12.50pm) None of that happens H, we are only talking about them making a fair contribution to society. Paying 3% more on an income of 80,000 is hardly going to bother you.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Jun 17 4.17pm | |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
No it means that you keep more of what you earn and spend it accordingly on White goods,holidays, food & drink etc where you pay a higher VAT rate. Well only if you earn enough to spend on white goods, holidays, drink etc... Which I think is much more of a significant problem that fiddling with tax rates. Wages. Which are in many cases, s**t, compared to local costs which have been rising. We need to control things like rents, mortgages and wages over taxation as a priority, to ensure that working is a) a route out of poverty b) provides at least something more than a life comparable to being on welfare. A working adult should be able to cover rent, utilities, council tax, travel, a reasonable food bill and still have a something left over for recreation, savings etc. When you have couples with kids, spending 1/2 to 3/4 of their income on rent, taxation reform etc isn't the problem. Its wages.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Jun 17 4.21pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
When you have taken all the money from those that have it and given it to those who do not, and the companies that produce wealth have ceased to operate, and the recently enriched people have spent all their new money, what do you do? Edited by hedgehog50 (15 Jun 2017 12.50pm) But that's not how taxation works. How tax works is that the rich people who have it, avoid paying as much as they can, and vote for political parties who keep reducing the amount of tax and providing tax shelter options for those who have it, whilst those who don't get f**ked. This occurs so frequently, that people exist who entirely make their careers out of ensuring people with money pay as little tax as possible. Whilst oddly, at the other end of the scale, we have an entire infrastructure in place to ensure that those with a little of the wealth, have as little control over their taxation as possible.
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Hrolf The Ganger 15 Jun 17 4.44pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Well only if you earn enough to spend on white goods, holidays, drink etc... Which I think is much more of a significant problem that fiddling with tax rates. Wages. Which are in many cases, s**t, compared to local costs which have been rising. We need to control things like rents, mortgages and wages over taxation as a priority, to ensure that working is a) a route out of poverty b) provides at least something more than a life comparable to being on welfare. A working adult should be able to cover rent, utilities, council tax, travel, a reasonable food bill and still have a something left over for recreation, savings etc. When you have couples with kids, spending 1/2 to 3/4 of their income on rent, taxation reform etc isn't the problem. Its wages.
Spot on.
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