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The Election Thread
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 chris123  hove actually 07 Nov 19 11.27am |
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Joe Haines too, Saturday's Times.
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| chris123 hove actually 07 Nov 19 11.35am |
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Originally posted by Jway89
Again, you are comparing a country that gave up it's ability to print it's own currency to us. That's comparing apples and sofas. Probably the only thing that Gordon Brown did right was not giving up our real sovereignty. Well the driver is the currency the loans are in surely - Greece has a mix of IMF and EU creditors, and I mentioned Greece because you mentioned bailiffs. I'm not certain what Germany has to do with it.
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| Deleted11 07 Nov 19 11.44am | |
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Originally posted by chris123
Well the driver is the currency the loans are in surely - Greece has a mix of IMF and EU creditors, and I mentioned Greece because you mentioned bailiffs. I'm not certain what Germany has to do with it. Germany basically controls whether the ECB prints euros or not, making it the EU's central bank by proxy. How did we have the ability to bail the system out? We printed. Greece cannot print euros, only the ECB via German authority can do that, hence Greece gets shafted as a statement to the rest of Europe. The Tories thought austerity was a sane and viable economic option, not because our debt was insane but because our deficit was too high. Our deficit is always going to be negative, because we are a developed country. The simple example is if you're doing alright for yourself and you shop at Waitrose every week, is your deficit with Waitrose going to be positive or negative?
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| W12 07 Nov 19 11.46am | |
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Originally posted by Jway89
It's not so much a political problem but a cultural one. Politicians are unable to even discuss this because they will be attacked and demonized in the media and the media is controlled by illiberals. The only reason there is any debate in the US is that Trump is Trump, so was willing to take the flack and not apologize for it (which is exactly why he is demonized). I can't imagine any of our spineless lot in parliament having the balls to do what he's done especially having seem 3 years of constant attacks he's had to endure. It's take a special level of thick skin to take that and still be able to be successful. How different things would be if the democrats would just accept that simply Trump isn't that bad.
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| Deleted11 07 Nov 19 11.48am | |
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Originally posted by chris123
Well the driver is the currency the loans are in surely - Greece has a mix of IMF and EU creditors, and I mentioned Greece because you mentioned bailiffs. I'm not certain what Germany has to do with it. Sorry,forgot to add; No, it doesn't matter. What matters is your ability to pay it.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 07 Nov 19 11.50am |
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Originally posted by Jway89
Excuse my stupidity, but so what. Who does the Government borrow money off? Our debt is 85% of GDP and to be honest I've never known anyone or country sending in bailiffs to collect this debt. Yes there will be increased taxation, but again, so what. I will be hit by it, but it won't really affect my life and everyone else below the increase will remain as is and probably better off as the minimum wage will go up. Where I do see an issue is in increasing corporation tax. I would prefer that to be lowered to almost single digits, but to actually collect it from the monopolistic FANGS as well as closing loopholes. The money is borrowed by the government releasing Gilts (bonds) onto the bond market. Start struggling to pay and keep on top of it will see credit ratings fall, price of bonds fall as more are on the market which causes interest rates to rise with the higher yields from the lower bond prices. I did not agree with recent austerity in the last couple of years but Corbyn is dangerous imo.
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 Hrolf The Ganger 07 Nov 19 11.53am |
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Originally posted by W12
It's not so much a political problem but a cultural one. Politicians are unable to even discuss this because they will be attacked and demonized in the media and the media is controlled by illiberals. The only reason there is any debate in the US is that Trump is Trump, so was willing to take the flack and not apologize for it (which is exactly why he is demonized). I can't imagine any of our spineless lot in parliament having the balls to do what he's done especially having seem 3 years of constant attacks he's had to endure. It's take a special level of thick skin to take that and still be able to be successful. How different things would be if the democrats would just accept that simply Trump isn't that bad. Indeed. Who talks about the amount of tax lost on immigrant businesses insisting on cash only payments? Labour wants to tax everyone big time to pay for their renationalisation scheme so you'd think they would be on that.
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| Deleted11 07 Nov 19 11.55am | |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
The money is borrowed by the government releasing Gilts (bonds) onto the bond market. Start struggling to pay and keep on top of it will see credit ratings fall, price of bonds fall as more are on the market which causes interest rates to rise with the higher yields from the lower bond prices. I did not agree with recent austerity in the last couple of years but Corbyn is dangerous imo. That's right in theory, but what's happening is the complete opposite. The amount of money that's been created is actually giving the worst yields in history, yet they are still being bought. You say dangerous, I say incompetent, but I paint all of them, as far as I can tell with the same brush.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 07 Nov 19 11.58am |
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Originally posted by Jway89
That's right in theory, but what's happening is the complete opposite. The amount of money that's been created is actually giving the worst yields in history, yet they are still being bought. You say dangerous, I say incompetent, but I paint all of them, as far as I can tell with the same brush. Other types of investment and their returns will always be a factor. Stocks, gold, oil, other commodities. Whatever credit default swaps are called now (facepalm).
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 07 Nov 19 12.00pm |
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Thinking you can beat the financial markets in government would be and will be insane. Hopefully we’ll see some investment in the right places without this risk.
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| Deleted11 07 Nov 19 12.00pm | |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Other types of investment and their returns will always be a factor. Stocks, gold, oil, other commodities. Whatever credit default swaps are called now (facepalm). Bonds from countries that can print their own money will always be bought, almost independent of the interest, because they are seen as a store of value that will be paid back definitely.
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| Deleted11 07 Nov 19 12.03pm | |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Thinking you can beat the financial markets in government would be and will be insane. Hopefully we’ll see some investment in the right places without this risk. But there would not be financial markets without the Government, right?
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