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  Hrolf The Ganger  06 Feb 17 8.22pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
You know being a Muslim is (mostly) a choice, right? Mike Tyson converted to Islam in prison. Cassius Clay and Cat Stevens similarly converted. I'm sure there's plenty of others. Banning the migration of Muslims does not impede the movement of the religion, nor that of the ideas of those who pervert he religion for their own evil purposes. Yes, not all Muslims are born into it.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 06 Feb 17 8.24pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
How about this which would be cutting off the snake's head? Any wahhabi/salafists are banned or put under severe travel restriction and the other 1,000,000,000 Muslims that do not adhere to that extremist warped version of Islam - i.e don't bomb or shoot people - are left alone to go about their business? For it is members of those sects that are the killers. That would be fine. Only one problem - Saudi follows, funds and promotes Wahhabism. Any solution? Edited by Kermit8 (06 Feb 2017 6.28pm) Invade Saudi Arabia and steal their oil? Just putting it out there.
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Ray in Houston  Houston 06 Feb 17 8.30pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Also the threat of Islamist Terrorism in the west won't be averted, without resolving the problems of the Middle East that have created Islamist terrorism, both Sunni and Shia, since the 60s. Its easy to forget that in many of the Middle Eastern countries, political change without political violence is almost unheard of. There won't be an end to the political violence of the middle east, whilst the states of the middle east hold their authority through violent suppression. Almost all civilizations have been born out of armed conflict. The UK was invaded by Romans, Vikings and Normans; it's expanse has changed over centuries as territory was won and lost in battle; it had a bloody civil war. All this before settling down into the stable democracy we know it to be know (Brexit notwithstanding). The U.S. was born out of rebellion, expanded by force and also engaged in a bloody civil war. All of western Europe had been an endless s***-storm of wars and revolutions until 1945; eastern Europe remains in a state of flux. But the western democracies are much, much more advanced in age and development than, for example, middle-eastern nations - many of which are artificial constructs that resulted from western aggression/occupation. They're our younger brothers, they just haven't got all this s*** out of their system yet. It's hypocritical of us to expect them just to be able to "sort their s*** out" when that process took us hundreds of years and millions of deaths - at home and wherever else in the world that we chose to take our fights. They need our help, not our fear, hate and scorn.
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 06 Feb 17 8.44pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
You know being a Muslim is (mostly) a choice, right? Mike Tyson converted to Islam in prison. Cassius Clay and Cat Stevens similarly converted. I'm sure there's plenty of others. Banning the migration of Muslims does not impede the movement of the religion, nor that of the ideas of those who pervert he religion for their own evil purposes. Don't hear of many gay men converting to Islam - I wonder why? Only seems to be boxers and pop singers. Oh, and the occasional jihadist murderer. Edited by hedgehog50 (06 Feb 2017 8.46pm)
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 06 Feb 17 8.55pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Don't hear of many gay men converting to Islam - I wonder why? Only seems to be boxers and pop singers. Oh, and the occasional jihadist murderer. Edited by hedgehog50 (06 Feb 2017 8.46pm) What does jihad mean?
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| Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Stoke sub normal 06 Feb 17 9.50pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
What does jihad mean? Now there's a hijacked word*, if ever there was one. "jihad" means 'struggling'. If a Muslim has doubts about the faith, they have their own personal jihad. However, in extreme cases, violence can be sanctioned in the form on military jihad (the Christian crusades, etc.) Although the Kuran forbids the killing of innocents (women, children, and people of The Book, which includes Jews and Christians). So any threat to the religious belief which addressed is a jihad. (Much the same as "gay" used to mean jolly.)
Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers |
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 06 Feb 17 10.10pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
What does jihad mean? To you, I expect not a lot.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 06 Feb 17 10.12pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
What does jihad mean? I think the point he might be alluding to is that some people spend a lot of time defending the rights of people who's religion does not afford the same consideration to large parts of the population.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 06 Feb 17 10.19pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
To you, I expect not a lot. Care to expand on your reasoning for this? I'm interested in your thought processes here.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 06 Feb 17 10.21pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I think the point he might be alluding to is that some people spend a lot of time defending the rights of people who's religion does not afford the same consideration to large parts of the population. Is that an uneducated generalisation based on your personal prejudices or can you point to examples of what I've emboldened?
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| Hrolf The Ganger 06 Feb 17 10.24pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Is that an uneducated generalisation based on your personal prejudices or can you point to examples of what I've emboldened? Sure. Women and gay people. Care to defend the Muslim stance on one or both?
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 06 Feb 17 10.44pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Sure. Women and gay people. Care to defend the Muslim stance on one or both? Which particular branch of islam are you referring to. I don't want to coat all Muslims treatment of women when there are examples of women being in positions of power and well represented in Government in Muslim countries. Again, I don't want to coat all Muslim countries over gay rights with sweeping generalisations as there are examples where the opposite is true. [Link]
Of course homophobia and Misogyny is wrong whatever religion espouses such twaddle. But you and I both know that it isn't just limited to Islam. There are examples of c***iness in all religions, yet you are fixated on Islam cos the man has told you to be scared.
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