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Horrific Scenes In Paris
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 Kermit8  Hevon 19 Nov 15 4.44pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 Nov 2015 4.38pm
Quote Kermit8 at 19 Nov 2015 4.16pm
nato ground troops could wipe out the ragtag IS in Northern Syria in weeks and be home by Xmas. There just isn't the will or political opportunity to do it. I doubt it. Somehow I think it would turn out to be more akin to the Soviet Union in Afghanistan or Chechnya, a slogging drawn out guerrilla conflict in which the NATO forces would experience nightmarish logistical problems (given their only 'safe' borders would be through Kurdish occupied territory (via Turkey or through Iraq across what was once the Sunni Triangle). Plus there is the issue of what the other rebel groups and factions would do, and then what to do with the country afterwards (you can't just hand it back to Assad and neither the Kurds or the Rebel factions are going to accept each other being placed in control). Syria is a 'Vietnam' waiting to happen. It took NATO days to occupy Afghanistan and militarily defeat the Taliban, but fifteen years on, they don't seem to have been wiped out, in fact far from it. All of the factions involved are using guerrilla war strategies and have been for several years. Likely as not we'd easily take IS territory, and then they would happily just to just keep up hit and run and ambushes against NATO and US troops and launching strikes against International targets - something I doubt the UK has the political stomach for long term. A lot of people talk up 'sending troops in' but no one I know who has either been in the military or is still in seems to be keen on the idea of getting into the Syrian Civil War.
Big chest and massive boobs |
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Lyons550  Shirley 19 Nov 15 4.45pm |
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Quote nickgusset at 19 Nov 2015 4.07pm
Quote Stuk at 19 Nov 2015 3.54pm
Quote nickgusset at 19 Nov 2015 3.45pm
"Corbyn isn’t suggesting inaction. He isn’t saying he wouldn’t support military intervention under any circumstances. What he is saying is that this is an incredibly complicated situation that needs a thoughtful response. In doing so, he’s attempting to bring nuance to an area of policy that has long been dominated by pro interventionists. Challenging that well-entrenched militaristic argument is an attempt to shift the wider debate, it’s not an easy feat and judging by reactions to his comments it’s not a welcome one within the political sphere. But it matters, and it should be heard." Why are you speaking for someone, who's speaking for him? He's an idiot, and his own MPs know he's an idiot. We certainly know he's an idiot so stop copying and pasting anything you can find about him. It's dull. Edited by Stuk (19 Nov 2015 3.54pm) For an 'idiot' he's done rather well don't you think? Do you not think we should exhaust all possibilities rather than just bombing the fack out of an area that most certainy contains many many innocents and will more than likely lead to more ISIS anti west sympathisers?
The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 19 Nov 15 4.45pm |
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Quote Lyons550 at 19 Nov 2015 4.33pm
Quote nickgusset at 19 Nov 2015 11.57am
Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 19 Nov 2015 11.45am
Quote nickgusset at 18 Nov 2015 10.32pm
Quote Lyons550 at 17 Nov 2015 8.25am
Quote nickgusset at 16 Nov 2015 9.40pm
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My point is therethere are plenty of Muslims opposing ISIS, something Lyons seems to say isn't happening. It doesn't suit (in my opinion) newspaper agenda to cover it.
So what about the Muslims in the Shia, and Iraqi forces fighting IS in Iraq, and those Muslims in Syria fighting IS, including the Kurds and the Syrian army - Not to mention people in Turkey, Jordon and Lebannon who are dealing with the humanitarian fall out from IS. Lebannon has around 1m Syrian refuges, a quarter of the population, we're getting s**ty about taking 20k over five years. Then there are those across the middle east who are funding those rebels and Kurds who are fighting against IS. All we're doing is dropping bombs and getting s**ty online. Out in the middle east there are tens of thousands of Muslims actually fighting against IS, putting their lives on the line. Our contribution, 900m in aid, over five years, 20k spaces for refugees, some 'military advisors' and some bombs dropped from 10,000ft on suspected targets and the occasional drone strike. But yeah, Muslims could do more.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Lyons550 Shirley 19 Nov 15 4.55pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 Nov 2015 4.45pm
Quote Lyons550 at 19 Nov 2015 4.33pm
Quote nickgusset at 19 Nov 2015 11.57am
Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 19 Nov 2015 11.45am
Quote nickgusset at 18 Nov 2015 10.32pm
Quote Lyons550 at 17 Nov 2015 8.25am
Quote nickgusset at 16 Nov 2015 9.40pm
.
My point is therethere are plenty of Muslims opposing ISIS, something Lyons seems to say isn't happening. It doesn't suit (in my opinion) newspaper agenda to cover it.
So what about the Muslims in the Shia, and Iraqi forces fighting IS in Iraq, and those Muslims in Syria fighting IS, including the Kurds and the Syrian army - Not to mention people in Turkey, Jordon and Lebannon who are dealing with the humanitarian fall out from IS. Lebannon has around 1m Syrian refuges, a quarter of the population, we're getting s**ty about taking 20k over five years. Then there are those across the middle east who are funding those rebels and Kurds who are fighting against IS. All we're doing is dropping bombs and getting s**ty online. Out in the middle east there are tens of thousands of Muslims actually fighting against IS, putting their lives on the line. Our contribution, 900m in aid, over five years, 20k spaces for refugees, some 'military advisors' and some bombs dropped from 10,000ft on suspected targets and the occasional drone strike. But yeah, Muslims could do more.
The point I was trying to make was more to do with Muslims being more vocal in the media to help the reduce the generalisation that I've been seeing all over said media regarding the muslim population. As I stated earlier..I posted a video of a guy doing just what I was hoping some would do...and I've seen similar instances of others doing so as well. The more the better. I'm well aware of the examples you pompously cite...but you see the point is its not needed for MY benefit...its for the imbeciles that still lump the muslim community into the one generic term. That's all...i'm pleased to see the seeds of a growing trend #notinmyname etc....lets hope we hear and see more doing so. It'd go a long long way to fostering greater understanding and hopefully build new bridges across communities in the process. Which is EXACTLY what ISIS don't want!
The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World |
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| Kermit8 Hevon 19 Nov 15 5.03pm |
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The next big genocide could well be visited on the minority Shia muslims the way things are panning out in the Middle East and perhaps North Africa. The IS Sunni lot and their ilk see them in such a way as to make them very vulnerable.
Big chest and massive boobs |
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 Hrolf The Ganger 19 Nov 15 5.25pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 Nov 2015 4.38pm
Quote Kermit8 at 19 Nov 2015 4.16pm
nato ground troops could wipe out the ragtag IS in Northern Syria in weeks and be home by Xmas. There just isn't the will or political opportunity to do it. I doubt it. Somehow I think it would turn out to be more akin to the Soviet Union in Afghanistan or Chechnya, a slogging drawn out guerrilla conflict in which the NATO forces would experience nightmarish logistical problems (given their only 'safe' borders would be through Kurdish occupied territory (via Turkey or through Iraq across what was once the Sunni Triangle). Plus there is the issue of what the other rebel groups and factions would do, and then what to do with the country afterwards (you can't just hand it back to Assad and neither the Kurds or the Rebel factions are going to accept each other being placed in control). Syria is a 'Vietnam' waiting to happen. It took NATO days to occupy Afghanistan and militarily defeat the Taliban, but fifteen years on, they don't seem to have been wiped out, in fact far from it. All of the factions involved are using guerrilla war strategies and have been for several years. Likely as not we'd easily take IS territory, and then they would happily just to just keep up hit and run and ambushes against NATO and US troops and launching strikes against International targets - something I doubt the UK has the political stomach for long term. A lot of people talk up 'sending troops in' but no one I know who has either been in the military or is still in seems to be keen on the idea of getting into the Syrian Civil War.
I don't know for sure.
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 Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 19 Nov 15 6.36pm |
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Quote Kermit8 at 19 Nov 2015 5.03pm
The next big genocide could well be visited on the minority Shia muslims the way things are panning out in the Middle East and perhaps North Africa. The IS Sunni lot and their ilk see them in such a way as to make them very vulnerable.
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| Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 19 Nov 15 6.42pm |
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Quote nickgusset at 19 Nov 2015 4.32pm
Quote Cucking Funt at 19 Nov 2015 4.05pm
If Gusset had been PM in 1940, he wouldn't have declared war on the Germans until they were actually goose-stepping up Whitehall and even then he'd have apologised to them first for getting their feet wet when they landed.
I was making the very reasonable assumption that you wouldn't have gone to war in 1939, either. I have you down as a bit of an appeaser.
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pefwin  Where you have to have an English ... 19 Nov 15 7.02pm |
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Quote Cucking Funt at 19 Nov 2015 6.42pm
Quote nickgusset at 19 Nov 2015 4.32pm
Quote Cucking Funt at 19 Nov 2015 4.05pm
If Gusset had been PM in 1940, he wouldn't have declared war on the Germans until they were actually goose-stepping up Whitehall and even then he'd have apologised to them first for getting their feet wet when they landed.
I was making the very reasonable assumption that you wouldn't have gone to war in 1939, either. I have you down as a bit of an appeaser.
"Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support." |
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| Mr Palaceman 19 Nov 15 7.45pm |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 19 Nov 2015 11.42am
Quote Mr Palaceman at 18 Nov 2015 5.10pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 18 Nov 2015 3.52pm
Quote Mr Palaceman at 18 Nov 2015 3.45pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 17 Nov 2015 4.07pm
Quote nickgusset at 17 Nov 2015 4.00pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 17 Nov 2015 3.35pm
Quote Southampton_Eagle at 17 Nov 2015 11.32am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 17 Nov 2015 9.11am
Quote Southampton_Eagle at 16 Nov 2015 11.25am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 16 Nov 2015 10.38am
Quote serial thriller at 14 Nov 2015 2.30pm
But I'll end this post with one final remark. The rules on this forum state that any racist ethnically objectionable material will be punished. It is my belief that racism, and indeed all forms of prejudice, stem from ignorance, and what I hope I have proved is that from the almost exclusive ignorance of Hoof's post, conclusions have been reached which at best are ethnically objectionable (Not just a few religious zealots or fundamentalists but with Islam itself... the whole ideology!) and at worst advocating genocide (we need to bring in the experts to destroy the nest!). I'd like to see the mods adhere to the rules of their own forum and warn Hoof that such views aren't welcome on here, yet particularly considering one mod has actively supported his beliefs, I'd be surprised if any of them had the guts to do so.
My reaction......... how childish and pathetic.... trying to get me banned because of my hard line views that oppose his liberal views and calling me racist AGAIN. Not content with that.... comparing my use of an analogy to that of the Nazi propaganda spokesman Goebbels speech on the final solution! Serial.... you and others on here need to stop playing the racist card and revert to trying to convince us your arguments are superior rather than underhand tactics to try and stifle our views.
Your opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else even though you seem to think it is. I avoided this thread all weekend because emotions were high. I'm not surprised to see the chest beating bravado of the usual suspects, those of, shall we say, an older generation with ingrained prejudices. Hol clusterf*ck thread at it's finest.
Get a life.
Anyways... from your tone it sounds like you should take a chill pill. Meanwhile, my offending post continues to get accolades from the free thinkers. Annoying isn't it? I still think your 'intern all muslims' remark is ridiculous. But you are entitled to that view, just as I am mine.
It would be impractical to intern them all anyway. My main thrust was to endorse the right of the government/MI6 to monitor all forms of communication to identify those who wish us harm. I have no problem with you airing your views nick...... none at all mate. Regards. That's not really a clarification, that is a move away from your original post but fair enough. The thing is the circumstances you describe in your clarification, you would not and don't need to "intern" people for. Preaching hate, plotting terrorist acts, inciting others to commit terrorist acts are all criminal offences and you wouldn't intern someone for that, you would jail them. The part of your post that stood out for me was that it was aimed at a particular religious group only. As I said in a previous post that you ignored/missed, discrimination on the basis of religion is a criminal offence in this country, as would be inciting others to discriminate on the basis of religious belief. How many people support your post or not and there are quite a few on both sides, matters not. What you were suggesting is against the law. In regards to your argument that government and security agencies should be allowed to invade whoever's personal freedom as a matter of course, is not a silly argument. Striking a balance between freedom and security is always difficult, especially in these times of extremism and technology. While I will always support any government that strives to keep the people safe, I don't not trust just any goverment not to use that power in order to control. For me that is just as great a threat to democracy and our general way of life as a potential attack. The ability for the people to engage in free speech and to vote privately, is a fundamental right and an essential corners stone of any true democracy.
However right now it only appears to be Islam that is killing people. If any other religion starts killing I will be on their case to. ...... oh and Atheists had better not start any terror campaigns!!! Fair enough, your not a fan of any religion, your not alone in that, I can respect that point of view. But you then say it ".. only appears to be Islam that is killing people". Islam can't kill anyone or anything, it's a notion, an idea, a religion or a way of life for some. What kills people is when someone takes an idea or a notion and uses it to kill or oppress someone else. Humans don't need the excuse of religion to kill for a notion. There are some extremely fanatical secularists, Christians, Buddhists (yes, them too), Nazis, Communists, Fascists I could go on. If you look at Nazis and Communists only, people that practised those two ideologies have killed people in the hundreds of millions, if you look at Hitler, Stalin and Mao. Nothing to do with religion. IMO humble opinion, I think that the main problem that those who oppose your posts have is that you show a level of discrimination that alarms people. They see echoes of what they believe is an extreme view, in order to combat what are without doubt the extreme views of those that attack our freedoms. Incidentally, this is the first post of mine that you have directly replied to, even though many others have replied on your behalf. Christians would say that Christmas must be coming. Don't expect a present...
However... right now... those people calling themselves ISIS, ISIL, Jihadists, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram and any other similar group are all guided by Islamic teachings and purport to be acting in accordance with the Quaran's guidance to kill all infidels. (I know most muslims say this is not a literal instruction but many believe it to be true). I don't happen to agree that this situation will go away with a handshake and diplomacy when you have people prepared to blow themselves up for their mistaken beliefs. I respect your views, but I am not about to change mine because you or Jeremy Corbyn don't want conflict. But hey ho.... Lets agree to disagree on this matter.
When you say, you or Corbyn, don't want conflict, you are SERIOUSLY mistaken. I can't speak for Corbyn but I am no pacifist, I believe in a strong, state of the art military. I would get rid of Trident but only to replace it with a British system. There are technical issues with that, that's for another post. I am like Corbyn in one sense and that is I believe in peace but I also believe that you "walk in peace with a very big stick". Because not everyone else is peaceful. I don't get the Corbyn is the devil type rhetoric that some spout although I wouldn't vote for him, at the moment he seems to me to be wrong footed, although I like some things he has said, there are some things that I clearly do not agree with but I don't think a lot of what he has said has been reported, unless it's controversial. I guess I am like him in another aspect and that is that I don't deal in personal insults (most of the time), I seem them as a sign of immaturity. Some don't mind it and I suppose they add the the colour of life but they are not for me, usually. In regards to dealing with ISIS, in principle, I am not against sending in troops. I was against the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq and what we did in Libya was nothing short of stupid. However, the war in Syria is a civil war, the involvement of so many foreign powers in the conflict has caused more problems for Syrians on all sides and has allowed ISIS to grow. Before and if any troops are sent in from this country, I believe there needs to be, among other things; 1. Cross party support.. 2. A proper coalition.. 3. Very clear achievable objectives.. 4. An exit strategy, with an achievable time scale.. 5. Global funding for Syria to rebuild.. I don't believe that any of the above conditions can be met currently. You don't fight a war unless you know you can achieve your goals and without all of the above, we would not achieve our goals. I travel a lot and have a very global outlook and some of my favourite subjects are, among others; Comparative religion, History, Politics and.... Military Strategy. That's probably why I like this thread, although it's been crazy and messed up at times. One of my all-time favourite books.. Sun Tsu - The Art of War. Very "un-Corbynesque".. I know I will not change your views with a few posts but I suspect that the reason we come on here is to see what other Palace fans are thinking about the general topics of the day. For all the long posts, opinion and counter opinion, there are some on here who have not once mentioned the victims or their families, I think for some, these are "sensational" times more than they are tragic. They are an excuse to spout whatever agenda they have. Just my opinion. That's not aimed at you personally, it's just a very general observation..(Honestly). Anyway, I've posted enough on this thread, I'll leave the rest to others..
"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead" Stan Laurel |
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-TUX-  Alphabettispaghetti 19 Nov 15 8.04pm |
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Quote Mr Palaceman at 19 Nov 2015 7.45pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 19 Nov 2015 11.42am
Quote Mr Palaceman at 18 Nov 2015 5.10pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 18 Nov 2015 3.52pm
Quote Mr Palaceman at 18 Nov 2015 3.45pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 17 Nov 2015 4.07pm
Quote nickgusset at 17 Nov 2015 4.00pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 17 Nov 2015 3.35pm
Quote Southampton_Eagle at 17 Nov 2015 11.32am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 17 Nov 2015 9.11am
Quote Southampton_Eagle at 16 Nov 2015 11.25am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 16 Nov 2015 10.38am
Quote serial thriller at 14 Nov 2015 2.30pm
But I'll end this post with one final remark. The rules on this forum state that any racist ethnically objectionable material will be punished. It is my belief that racism, and indeed all forms of prejudice, stem from ignorance, and what I hope I have proved is that from the almost exclusive ignorance of Hoof's post, conclusions have been reached which at best are ethnically objectionable (Not just a few religious zealots or fundamentalists but with Islam itself... the whole ideology!) and at worst advocating genocide (we need to bring in the experts to destroy the nest!). I'd like to see the mods adhere to the rules of their own forum and warn Hoof that such views aren't welcome on here, yet particularly considering one mod has actively supported his beliefs, I'd be surprised if any of them had the guts to do so.
My reaction......... how childish and pathetic.... trying to get me banned because of my hard line views that oppose his liberal views and calling me racist AGAIN. Not content with that.... comparing my use of an analogy to that of the Nazi propaganda spokesman Goebbels speech on the final solution! Serial.... you and others on here need to stop playing the racist card and revert to trying to convince us your arguments are superior rather than underhand tactics to try and stifle our views.
Your opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else even though you seem to think it is. I avoided this thread all weekend because emotions were high. I'm not surprised to see the chest beating bravado of the usual suspects, those of, shall we say, an older generation with ingrained prejudices. Hol clusterf*ck thread at it's finest.
Get a life.
Anyways... from your tone it sounds like you should take a chill pill. Meanwhile, my offending post continues to get accolades from the free thinkers. Annoying isn't it? I still think your 'intern all muslims' remark is ridiculous. But you are entitled to that view, just as I am mine.
It would be impractical to intern them all anyway. My main thrust was to endorse the right of the government/MI6 to monitor all forms of communication to identify those who wish us harm. I have no problem with you airing your views nick...... none at all mate. Regards. That's not really a clarification, that is a move away from your original post but fair enough. The thing is the circumstances you describe in your clarification, you would not and don't need to "intern" people for. Preaching hate, plotting terrorist acts, inciting others to commit terrorist acts are all criminal offences and you wouldn't intern someone for that, you would jail them. The part of your post that stood out for me was that it was aimed at a particular religious group only. As I said in a previous post that you ignored/missed, discrimination on the basis of religion is a criminal offence in this country, as would be inciting others to discriminate on the basis of religious belief. How many people support your post or not and there are quite a few on both sides, matters not. What you were suggesting is against the law. In regards to your argument that government and security agencies should be allowed to invade whoever's personal freedom as a matter of course, is not a silly argument. Striking a balance between freedom and security is always difficult, especially in these times of extremism and technology. While I will always support any government that strives to keep the people safe, I don't not trust just any goverment not to use that power in order to control. For me that is just as great a threat to democracy and our general way of life as a potential attack. The ability for the people to engage in free speech and to vote privately, is a fundamental right and an essential corners stone of any true democracy.
However right now it only appears to be Islam that is killing people. If any other religion starts killing I will be on their case to. ...... oh and Atheists had better not start any terror campaigns!!! Fair enough, your not a fan of any religion, your not alone in that, I can respect that point of view. But you then say it ".. only appears to be Islam that is killing people". Islam can't kill anyone or anything, it's a notion, an idea, a religion or a way of life for some. What kills people is when someone takes an idea or a notion and uses it to kill or oppress someone else. Humans don't need the excuse of religion to kill for a notion. There are some extremely fanatical secularists, Christians, Buddhists (yes, them too), Nazis, Communists, Fascists I could go on. If you look at Nazis and Communists only, people that practised those two ideologies have killed people in the hundreds of millions, if you look at Hitler, Stalin and Mao. Nothing to do with religion. IMO humble opinion, I think that the main problem that those who oppose your posts have is that you show a level of discrimination that alarms people. They see echoes of what they believe is an extreme view, in order to combat what are without doubt the extreme views of those that attack our freedoms. Incidentally, this is the first post of mine that you have directly replied to, even though many others have replied on your behalf. Christians would say that Christmas must be coming. Don't expect a present...
However... right now... those people calling themselves ISIS, ISIL, Jihadists, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram and any other similar group are all guided by Islamic teachings and purport to be acting in accordance with the Quaran's guidance to kill all infidels. (I know most muslims say this is not a literal instruction but many believe it to be true). I don't happen to agree that this situation will go away with a handshake and diplomacy when you have people prepared to blow themselves up for their mistaken beliefs. I respect your views, but I am not about to change mine because you or Jeremy Corbyn don't want conflict. But hey ho.... Lets agree to disagree on this matter.
When you say, you or Corbyn, don't want conflict, you are SERIOUSLY mistaken. I can't speak for Corbyn but I am no pacifist, I believe in a strong, state of the art military. I would get rid of Trident but only to replace it with a British system. There are technical issues with that, that's for another post. I am like Corbyn in one sense and that is I believe in peace but I also believe that you "walk in peace with a very big stick". Because not everyone else is peaceful. I don't get the Corbyn is the devil type rhetoric that some spout although I wouldn't vote for him, at the moment he seems to me to be wrong footed, although I like some things he has said, there are some things that I clearly do not agree with but I don't think a lot of what he has said has been reported, unless it's controversial. I guess I am like him in another aspect and that is that I don't deal in personal insults (most of the time), I seem them as a sign of immaturity. Some don't mind it and I suppose they add the the colour of life but they are not for me, usually. In regards to dealing with ISIS, in principle, I am not against sending in troops. I was against the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq and what we did in Libya was nothing short of stupid. However, the war in Syria is a civil war, the involvement of so many foreign powers in the conflict has caused more problems for Syrians on all sides and has allowed ISIS to grow. Before and if any troops are sent in from this country, I believe there needs to be, among other things; 1. Cross party support.. 2. A proper coalition.. 3. Very clear achievable objectives.. 4. An exit strategy, with an achievable time scale.. 5. Global funding for Syria to rebuild.. I don't believe that any of the above conditions can be met currently. You don't fight a war unless you know you can achieve your goals and without all of the above, we would not achieve our goals. I travel a lot and have a very global outlook and some of my favourite subjects are, among others; Comparative religion, History, Politics and.... Military Strategy. That's probably why I like this thread, although it's been crazy and messed up at times. One of my all-time favourite books.. Sun Tsu - The Art of War. Very "un-Corbynesque".. I know I will not change your views with a few posts but I suspect that the reason we come on here is to see what other Palace fans are thinking about the general topics of the day. For all the long posts, opinion and counter opinion, there are some on here who have not once mentioned the victims or their families, I think for some, these are "sensational" times more than they are tragic. They are an excuse to spout whatever agenda they have. Just my opinion. That's not aimed at you personally, it's just a very general observation..(Honestly). Anyway, I've posted enough on this thread, I'll leave the rest to others..
Despite the rumours, British 'manufacturing' is alive and well.
Time to move forward together. |
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| Mr Palaceman 19 Nov 15 8.17pm |
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Quote nickgusset at 19 Nov 2015 4.32pm
Quote Cucking Funt at 19 Nov 2015 4.05pm
If Gusset had been PM in 1940, he wouldn't have declared war on the Germans until they were actually goose-stepping up Whitehall and even then he'd have apologised to them first for getting their feet wet when they landed.
LOL...
"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead" Stan Laurel |
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