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silvertop Portishead 10 Jun 23 3.24pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
One interesting concept I have encountered over the last few months is Kayfabe [Link] . Applied to what we are seeing at the moment with politics. At first, I was dismissive but am becoming increasingly convinced it is a perfectly legitimate description. Given what has happened to Corbyn, instigated by Starmer, and then how the Torys turned on Lizz Truss because she had the audacity to want to cut taxes, it is clear something very f***ed up is going on. This is an odd post. Corbyn was ousted as an unelectable liability. Where is the issue? Truss budget was little short of economic suicide. I know someone whose business supplies to construction. This guy is full blue. I am sure he came out of the womb carrying the Tory manifesto. He said the truss budget turned off the tap overnight and almost finished him. The Tories are bankrolled by the City. I suspect they made the choice absolutely clear to the party.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 10 Jun 23 3.49pm | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
Yes, opinion is divided, you don't think Blair committed misdemeanours, the rest of the world thinks he did. See the post preceding yours, which makes it clearly untrue. This is what my new friend the ai chatbot has to say on the subject:- "There were several criticisms and controversies surrounding the decision-making process and actions of former British Prime Minister Tony Blair regarding the Iraq War. Here are some key points: Intelligence and WMD claims: One major controversy was the assertion that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction (WMDs), which was one of the main justifications for the war. The intelligence used to support these claims was later found to be flawed, leading to questions about the accuracy and presentation of the information by the Blair government. Legal justifications: There were debates about the legality of the Iraq War under international law. The United Nations Security Council did not pass a resolution explicitly authorizing the use of force, leading some legal experts and critics to argue that the war was illegal. Lack of post-war planning: Another criticism leveled against Blair's government was the inadequate planning for the post-war period, which contributed to the instability and sectarian violence that followed the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime. Public and political support: The decision to go to war in Iraq was highly controversial and faced significant opposition from the public and within Blair's own Labour Party. The lack of a robust public debate and the perception that Blair was too closely aligned with the United States on the issue also drew criticism. The Chilcot Inquiry: In 2009, the UK government established the Chilcot Inquiry to examine the UK's involvement in the Iraq War. The inquiry's final report, published in 2016, criticized the government's decision-making process, stating that Blair had overstated the threat posed by Iraq and had not exhausted all peaceful alternatives before resorting to military action. While these points represent some of the criticisms and controversies surrounding Tony Blair's actions and decisions related to the Iraq War, it is important to note that perspectives on this issue can vary widely, and there are differing opinions on the extent of any misdeeds or wrongdoings."
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Matov 10 Jun 23 4.46pm | |
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Originally posted by silvertop
This is an odd post. Corbyn was ousted as an unelectable liability. Where is the issue? . IN 2017, Corybn bought in 40% of the vote in a general election. He was far from unelectable. What made him unelectable was the ludicrous second referendum policy Labour adopted after 2017. Championed by Starmer. Who then replaced him, based on telling lie after lie to members of his own party. And then, expells Corybn. Corybn scared a lot of people based on that 2017 result. Hence why he had to be bought down.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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steeleye20 Croydon 10 Jun 23 5.28pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
IN 2017, Corybn bought in 40% of the vote in a general election. He was far from unelectable. What made him unelectable was the ludicrous second referendum policy Labour adopted after 2017. Championed by Starmer. Who then replaced him, based on telling lie after lie to members of his own party. And then, expells Corybn. Corybn scared a lot of people based on that 2017 result. Hence why he had to be bought down.
A good point about Corbyn's marginalisation by just about everybody. And by no means does it mean he was all wrong. First item on the Corbyn agenda - return to public ownership of the water industry, a tory privatisation catastrophe. Few people would not see that now, I suspect. It doesn't look like thee is much choice with Starmer.
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Matov 10 Jun 23 6.46pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
It doesn't look like thee is much choice with Starmer.
The entire game is rigged.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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Hrolf The Ganger 10 Jun 23 7.02pm | |
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Originally posted by Lombardinho
There's a chance The Greys are responsible for the entire sh1t-show. I wouldn't rule out their involvement somewhere down the line. This is the woman who was Boris's lover for four years. Now if he was an "imposter" in Number 10 it surely means... a) He didn't really win the Dec' 19 election or b) since March 2020 it hasn't been the real Boris. Personally, I think both a AND b to be true. When you think about it seriously. Johnson has been replaced by Sunak via Truss without any genuine democratic process. Trump was ousted by a term long media campaign and some dodgy voting patterns. Now they have ousted Boris from Parliament and are trying to stop Trump running with some spurious charges. Who is ultimately responsible? How high up the chain does it go, and who is at the top of that chain? Where are Mulder and Scully when you need them? Seriously, there is clearly an agenda which seems to relate to various aspects of global politics which includes promoting mass immigration, stirring divisive race issues and introducing more control over the masses with less democracy.
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nead1 10 Jun 23 8.42pm | |
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"Trump was ousted by a long term media campaign and some dodgy voting patterns"; not true; he lost the election fair and square and then tried to bring spurious legal challenges (c50 from memory) which were all thrown out. "Now they have ousted Boris from Parliament"; not true; he has resigned rather than face the fall out from what the Privileges Committee have clearly found; that is, he misled Parliament "They are trying to stop Trump running with some spurious charges"; the charges associated with the documents he has taken /stored in his home, are very serious as he is likely to find out. Nuclear secrets, in particular, could hardly be more serious - especially in his hands. Other charges associated with Georgia and Jan 6th are likely to follow. The people responsible are Trump and Johnson themselves - nobody else.
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steeleye20 Croydon 10 Jun 23 8.59pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
The entire game is rigged. Well he's better than the tories, but so is anybody. Caroline Lucas resigns - gives up - the best PM we never had? Relevant, modern, focussed on the issues that matter most, didnt really stand a chance at Westminster. Thanks for trying.
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georgenorman 10 Jun 23 9.33pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Well he's better than the tories, but so is anybody. Caroline Lucas resigns - gives up - the best PM we never had? Relevant, modern, focussed on the issues that matter most, didnt really stand a chance at Westminster. Thanks for trying. Says the man who thinks Robert Mugabe was a great leader.
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Hrolf The Ganger 10 Jun 23 9.51pm | |
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Originally posted by nead1
"Trump was ousted by a long term media campaign and some dodgy voting patterns"; not true; he lost the election fair and square and then tried to bring spurious legal challenges (c50 from memory) which were all thrown out. "Now they have ousted Boris from Parliament"; not true; he has resigned rather than face the fall out from what the Privileges Committee have clearly found; that is, he misled Parliament "They are trying to stop Trump running with some spurious charges"; the charges associated with the documents he has taken /stored in his home, are very serious as he is likely to find out. Nuclear secrets, in particular, could hardly be more serious - especially in his hands. Other charges associated with Georgia and Jan 6th are likely to follow. The people responsible are Trump and Johnson themselves - nobody else. If that is your interpretation, then you clearly see things in one dimension. Ask yourself what other politicians have got away with that we know nothing about, and why we know so much about these alleged misdemeanours. Do you think Trump would be facing these charges if he wasn't planning to run next time, or if Johnson would have been removed had he been a Remainer.
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nead1 10 Jun 23 10.07pm | |
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I see things in a factual way; yes, I do think Trump would have faced these charges - and all the others coming his way - irrespective of whether he was intending to run or not. What happened on 6th Jan and subsequently, could not simply be ignored. As for Johnson, his views vis a vis Brexit are irrelevant. His own actions have created the mess he finds himself in and, in particular, his inability to be truthful - not a recent trait as I am sure you are aware.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 10 Jun 23 10.59pm | |
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Originally posted by nead1
I see things in a factual way; yes, I do think Trump would have faced these charges - and all the others coming his way - irrespective of whether he was intending to run or not. What happened on 6th Jan and subsequently, could not simply be ignored. As for Johnson, his views vis a vis Brexit are irrelevant. His own actions have created the mess he finds himself in and, in particular, his inability to be truthful - not a recent trait as I am sure you are aware. It's good to see straightforward common sense posted here. I hope this marks the end of populist politics on both sides of the Atlantic, but I fear not. Trump could still run, even if in prison, though I doubt whether it will get that far before the election process begins. More likely any campaign will be impacted by a need to be in Court and his chances damaged by the revelations. Johnson, like Trump, believes he is the only answer and his behaviour is unimportant froth. He will continue to make noise, but I hope the Tory Party remove his membership and ditch the right for good. It's the only way they have any chance of recovering.
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