Vieira vs Roy V2.0

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Vieira vs Roy V2.0

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eaglesdare 25 Apr 23 2.24pm
Originally posted by robdave2k I think for me what highlighted there were issues with Vieria was the Southampton cup game. Everyone says about playing teams higher in the league, that game pretty much represented Vieria’s entire managerial career. The team started off well, had a blip, then looked bereft and unfit and no identity. This was the first game I knew somthing was not right with the team.
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eaglesdare

25 Apr 23 2.24pm

Originally posted by robdave2k

I think for me what highlighted there were issues with Vieria was the Southampton cup
game.

Everyone says about playing teams higher in the league, that game pretty much represented Vieria’s entire managerial career.

The team started off well, had a blip, then looked bereft and unfit and no identity.

This was the first game I knew somthing was not right with the team.

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taylors lovechild 27 Apr 23 7.02am
I was thinking last night, I wonder if some of the disharmony started with the club making a mess of the preseason. Vieira didn't exactly hide his displeasure at his squad being split in two for a marketing exercise and we kicked off the season looking a bit half asleep and short on squad depth. Follow that with the club ignoring his requests for more experienced signings in January and maybe he did just give up the ghost.
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taylors lovechild

27 Apr 23 7.02am

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I was thinking last night, I wonder if some of the disharmony started with the club making a mess of the preseason. Vieira didn't exactly hide his displeasure at his squad being split in two for a marketing exercise and we kicked off the season looking a bit half asleep and short on squad depth. Follow that with the club ignoring his requests for more experienced signings in January and maybe he did just give up the ghost.

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Badger11 Beckenham 27 Apr 23 7.51am
Originally posted by taylors lovechild I was thinking last night, I wonder if some of the disharmony started with the club making a mess of the preseason. Vieira didn't exactly hide his displeasure at his squad being split in two for a marketing exercise and we kicked off the season looking a bit half asleep and short on squad depth. Follow that with the club ignoring his requests for more experienced signings in January and maybe he did just give up the ghost. I think a lot of what you say makes sense and the board did let him down. However I expect most managers will tell you that their board makes promises they don't keep. The burden of being a manager is to make the best of what you got and PV didn't do that. A good manager would have got those players going and then quit for a better job. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 27 Apr 23 7.51am

Originally posted by taylors lovechild

I think a lot of what you say makes sense and the board did let him down. However I expect most managers will tell you that their board makes promises they don't keep.

The burden of being a manager is to make the best of what you got and PV didn't do that.

A good manager would have got those players going and then quit for a better job.

One more point

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Palace Old Geezer Midhurst 27 Apr 23 8.43am
Originally posted by Badger11 I think a lot of what you say makes sense and the board did let him down. However I expect most managers will tell you that their board makes promises they don't keep. The burden of being a manager is to make the best of what you got and PV didn't do that. A good manager would have got those players going and then quit for a better job. Yep, that's right Badger. PV probably was a tad cheesed off with a few issues, but a top bloke would have brushed all that aside and made a real go of it to make a point. I saw he managed to get a gig on BT last night. Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.
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Palace Old Geezer

Midhurst 27 Apr 23 8.43am

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Originally posted by Badger11

I think a lot of what you say makes sense and the board did let him down. However I expect most managers will tell you that their board makes promises they don't keep.

The burden of being a manager is to make the best of what you got and PV didn't do that.

A good manager would have got those players going and then quit for a better job.

Yep, that's right Badger. PV probably was a tad cheesed off with a few issues, but a top bloke would have brushed all that aside and made a real go of it to make a point.

I saw he managed to get a gig on BT last night.

Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 27 Apr 23 8.55am
Originally posted by Palace Old Geezer Yep, that's right Badger. PV probably was a tad cheesed off with a few issues, but a top bloke would have brushed all that aside and made a real go of it to make a point. I saw he managed to get a gig on BT last night. The thing for me with PV is he always had a look and gave off the impression of resignation a lot of the time. That's not what you want to see really, especially with a club like ours, is a manager who when things are going as badly as they were looks to have just accepted the situation as though he is completely apathetic towards, and has no influence, over it. I have said previously that the team looked great when things were going our way however as soon as our backs were against the wall, and some fight was needed, we seemed to just throw in the towel and again I was left with the impression that it stemmed from the manager. Football management surely has to go beyond having something constituting a philosophy, being nice to the players and picking XI each match, we could all do that, and I failed to see what PV was bringing beyond those basic requirements. That was his downfall from where I was sitting. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 27 Apr 23 8.55am

Originally posted by Palace Old Geezer

Yep, that's right Badger. PV probably was a tad cheesed off with a few issues, but a top bloke would have brushed all that aside and made a real go of it to make a point.

I saw he managed to get a gig on BT last night.

The thing for me with PV is he always had a look and gave off the impression of resignation a lot of the time.

That's not what you want to see really, especially with a club like ours, is a manager who when things are going as badly as they were looks to have just accepted the situation as though he is completely apathetic towards, and has no influence, over it.

I have said previously that the team looked great when things were going our way however as soon as our backs were against the wall, and some fight was needed, we seemed to just throw in the towel and again I was left with the impression that it stemmed from the manager.

Football management surely has to go beyond having something constituting a philosophy, being nice to the players and picking XI each match, we could all do that, and I failed to see what PV was bringing beyond those basic requirements. That was his downfall from where I was sitting.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 27 Apr 23 9.28am
Originally posted by Nicholas91 The thing for me with PV is he always had a look and gave off the impression of resignation a lot of the time. That's not what you want to see really, especially with a club like ours, is a manager who when things are going as badly as they were looks to have just accepted the situation as though he is completely apathetic towards, and has no influence, over it. I have said previously that the team looked great when things were going our way however as soon as our backs were against the wall, and some fight was needed, we seemed to just throw in the towel and again I was left with the impression that it stemmed from the manager. Football management surely has to go beyond having something constituting a philosophy, being nice to the players and picking XI each match, we could all do that, and I failed to see what PV was bringing beyond those basic requirements. That was his downfall from where I was sitting. I'm not disagreeing, but it's at odds with what was being said about PV last season when it was said that he had brought a '' winning mentality '' to the club. Ultimately I think he lacked the experience to shuffle the playing pack when required. Something that Roy manages really well. Old, Ungifted and White
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NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 27 Apr 23 9.28am

Originally posted by Nicholas91

The thing for me with PV is he always had a look and gave off the impression of resignation a lot of the time.

I have said previously that the team looked great when things were going our way however as soon as our backs were against the wall, and some fight was needed, we seemed to just throw in the towel and again I was left with the impression that it stemmed from the manager.

I'm not disagreeing, but it's at odds with what was being said about PV last season when it was said that he had brought a '' winning mentality '' to the club.

Ultimately I think he lacked the experience to shuffle the playing pack when required. Something that Roy manages really well.

Old, Ungifted and White

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 27 Apr 23 9.36am
Originally posted by NEILLO I'm not disagreeing, but it's at odds with what was being said about PV last season when it was said that he had brought a '' winning mentality '' to the club. Ultimately I think he lacked the experience to shuffle the playing pack when required. Something that Roy manages really well. That is sort of my point Neillo. His approach was one dimensional which was good when it worked but the pragmatism/solutions needed to combat a poor run of results and performances was not demonstrated. I do think it ironic if not hilarious to suggest PV brought a 'winning mentality' when we went three months without a single W! He didn't have any answers when things went south and a winning mentality cannot be attributed to someone who has no solutions to an inability to win. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 27 Apr 23 9.36am

Originally posted by NEILLO

I'm not disagreeing, but it's at odds with what was being said about PV last season when it was said that he had brought a '' winning mentality '' to the club.

Ultimately I think he lacked the experience to shuffle the playing pack when required. Something that Roy manages really well.

That is sort of my point Neillo.

His approach was one dimensional which was good when it worked but the pragmatism/solutions needed to combat a poor run of results and performances was not demonstrated. I do think it ironic if not hilarious to suggest PV brought a 'winning mentality' when we went three months without a single W! He didn't have any answers when things went south and a winning mentality cannot be attributed to someone who has no solutions to an inability to win.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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southnorwoodhill 27 Apr 23 9.39am
Originally posted by Nicholas91 The thing for me with PV is he always had a look and gave off the impression of resignation a lot of the time. That's not what you want to see really, especially with a club like ours, is a manager who when things are going as badly as they were looks to have just accepted the situation as though he is completely apathetic towards, and has no influence, over it. I have said previously that the team looked great when things were going our way however as soon as our backs were against the wall, and some fight was needed, we seemed to just throw in the towel and again I was left with the impression that it stemmed from the manager. Football management surely has to go beyond having something constituting a philosophy, being nice to the players and picking XI each match, we could all do that, and I failed to see what PV was bringing beyond those basic requirements. That was his downfall from where I was sitting. I posted much earlier about PV's body language, this at a point when things were recoverable in football terms at least with a few solid performances. Something looked wrong, certainly not the same man as the first season.
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southnorwoodhill

27 Apr 23 9.39am

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Originally posted by Nicholas91

The thing for me with PV is he always had a look and gave off the impression of resignation a lot of the time.

That's not what you want to see really, especially with a club like ours, is a manager who when things are going as badly as they were looks to have just accepted the situation as though he is completely apathetic towards, and has no influence, over it.

I posted much earlier about PV's body language, this at a point when things were recoverable in football terms at least with a few solid performances. Something looked wrong, certainly not the same man as the first season.

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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 27 Apr 23 10.02am
Originally posted by Nicholas91 That is sort of my point Neillo. His approach was one dimensional which was good when it worked but the pragmatism/solutions needed to combat a poor run of results and performances was not demonstrated. I do think it ironic if not hilarious to suggest PV brought a 'winning mentality' when we went three months without a single W! He didn't have any answers when things went south and a winning mentality cannot be attributed to someone who has no solutions to an inability to win. Completely agree Nicholas. Strange that someone with Vieira's background as a player could be so passive as a manager. Old, Ungifted and White
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NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 27 Apr 23 10.02am

Originally posted by Nicholas91

That is sort of my point Neillo.

Completely agree Nicholas. Strange that someone with Vieira's background as a player could be so passive as a manager.

Old, Ungifted and White

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 27 Apr 23 10.07am
Originally posted by NEILLO Completely agree Nicholas. Strange that someone with Vieira's background as a player could be so passive as a manager. I saw him post match doing punditry on City v Arsenal last night and again he came across as quite meek and loose in what he said. It may just be the case that whilst he could be a warrior individually he does not possess that trait in leadership. I still don't hate him at all I have to say, I wouldn't go so far as to say I feel sorry for him but I wish him well, it just didn't work out and he had to go for footballing reasons no matter what the sentiment around him personally. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 27 Apr 23 10.07am

Originally posted by NEILLO

Completely agree Nicholas. Strange that someone with Vieira's background as a player could be so passive as a manager.

I saw him post match doing punditry on City v Arsenal last night and again he came across as quite meek and loose in what he said.

It may just be the case that whilst he could be a warrior individually he does not possess that trait in leadership. I still don't hate him at all I have to say, I wouldn't go so far as to say I feel sorry for him but I wish him well, it just didn't work out and he had to go for footballing reasons no matter what the sentiment around him personally.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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taylors lovechild 27 Apr 23 10.13am
I did take his calmness to be a sign that he believed the players were good enough to turn things around and hence he wasn't panicking, but I also accept that it may instead have been him lacking the will or ability to shake things up. Ignoring the football side of things, I did like having a manager who looked like he could beat everyone up
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taylors lovechild

27 Apr 23 10.13am

I did take his calmness to be a sign that he believed the players were good enough to turn things around and hence he wasn't panicking, but I also accept that it may instead have been him lacking the will or ability to shake things up. Ignoring the football side of things, I did like having a manager who looked like he could beat everyone up

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Steveoxon Oxford 27 Apr 23 11.38am
I often thought before he came to Palace that his performance as a pundit was often quite weak, what he said never really seemed to amount to much. I thought then perhaps it was a language issue, but his pre and post match performances when manager were often quite wishy-washy in my opinion. I also thought his interview with Rio Ferdinand re social media was a bit disappointing. Originally posted by Nicholas91 I saw him post match doing punditry on City v Arsenal last night and again he came across as quite meek and loose in what he said. It may just be the case that whilst he could be a warrior individually he does not possess that trait in leadership. I still don't hate him at all I have to say, I wouldn't go so far as to say I feel sorry for him but I wish him well, it just didn't work out and he had to go for footballing reasons no matter what the sentiment around him personally.
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Steveoxon

Oxford 27 Apr 23 11.38am

I often thought before he came to Palace that his performance as a pundit was often quite weak, what he said never really seemed to amount to much. I thought then perhaps it was a language issue, but his pre and post match performances when manager were often quite wishy-washy in my opinion. I also thought his interview with Rio Ferdinand re social media was a bit disappointing.

Originally posted by Nicholas91

I saw him post match doing punditry on City v Arsenal last night and again he came across as quite meek and loose in what he said.

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