This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In
Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 17 Jul 20 1.49pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Mwncisee
Over the last few weeks I have been so tempted to respond on so many threads, which to me all revolve around the same issue that I feel many are missing but is in reality the root. Please excuse me if this is a bit `rambling` and I know it could be open to retorts and I actually welcome them I have been of the school of thought of we are lucky to have Roy but even I have to admit I have been finding it harder and harder to be able to defend him with the recent results. The question is of is he limited in how adventurous he wants to play or does he get the best he can out of a limited squad? I worry about the calls of `I'd rather give it a go and risk us being relegated`. yeah if you can guarantee that we can then bounce back again but remember all those clubs that have thought this and look what happened. In reality go down from the Premier with a premier wage bill and the domino affect can be huge. Remember Stoke wanting to be more expressive? I know many Sunderland fans. Many know feel they should have been more careful for what they wished for. The Roy stay or go debate I'm afraid is irrelevant as its the underlying issue that in reality determines it, or if it is at all even possible. Our American friends invested in Palace and now want out, so they will not invest in us any more. Until that is sorted we are going to remain stagnant. I do not blame Parish for this, it was almost certainly well intention ed at the time and he cannot carry the club on his own. People say on here just buy new players. Where is the money for this coming from? Who is going to buy our players? Even if sold (Like AWB last year) the money is needed to invest in the club to keep it afloat. The indicator was there last summer and nothing has changed since. If we get investors into the club (and I'll bet you we are really hunting for them) then and only then will replacing Roy be seriously considered. I genuinely believe SP wants Dyche, and if (and it's a massive IF) we got new investors tomorrow we would make a move for him and be able to give him a little war chest to freshen up the squad. We are not an attractive prospect to any manager until the squad can be invested in and we can't do that until investment is found. Until that can happen the only thing we have going for us to entice investment is that we are a Premiership Club, therefore we know Roy is the best cheapest bet to achieve that at the moment and he will have to stay. So basically folks suck it up and get used to it because I think what we have is what we are going to get next season. A very good post.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Mwncisee Middlesbrough 17 Jul 20 1.53pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Willo
A very good post. Thanks Willo, appreciate that. It's frustrated me recently that we are debating the symptoms not the cause at the moment. Edited by Mwncisee (17 Jul 2020 1.53pm)
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
EverybodyDannsNow SE19 17 Jul 20 2.10pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by SwordFish
I don’t think it’s disingenuous, but I think the vast majority of those defending Roy massively misunderstand the expectations and wants of those criticising him - I haven’t seen anyone posting on here who’s expectation is hundreds of millions of investment and a team challenging for Europe - most people just want to enjoy watching their football club again. This might be the ‘peak of our mountain’ in terms of league position, but it’s certainly not in terms of performances, and to make out better performances are unattainable or unrealistic is not accurate. We’ve done it numerous times over the last 7 years. No real complaints from me about Roy yesterday, and it did give me some hope that he might be able to get us going again. He changed the shape for the first time in in months, pushed Zaha and Ayew into a front 2 and pulled Macca as a narrow left midfielder. We clearly identified AWB isn’t too much of a threat going forward and having Wilf waste his night chasing him up and down wasn’t a great plan. This also meant Wilf could pick up the ball in different positions making it much harder to double or triple up on him, and why he was able to get turned and running at the centre backs numerous times. (This type of change also puts to bed the utter nonsense that has been flying round that it was our squad which meant Roy had to approach every single game exactly the same - there are tons of tactical changes you can make within the same 11.)
Overall the gulf in quality told, and combined with some questionable decisions, meant we got nothing out of the game - I have no problem with that.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
PatrickA London 17 Jul 20 2.33pm | |
---|---|
The above is entirely in line with my views and I suspect many others who want to see us having more of a go in games with Zaha freed of some defensive responsibilities.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
dazza Wallington 17 Jul 20 2.41pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Jackeagle
The twitter bandwagon of teenagers screaming for Roy out has now truly got under my skin. Yes, through a combination of poor performances and bad luck we have now lost 6 in a row, but our position far from the relegation zone and not far from top 10 goes to show how well he has done prior to lockdown. The man has worked miracles despite hardly ever being backed in the market. To be honest, bar Benteke and Mama (who I believe have been very poor value for money), none of our squad were particularly expensive signings. I’m not saying Roy is flawless (lack of subs particularly frustrates me), but his astute defensive and tactical knowledge i imagine is far superior to any new manager we could attract. Ok, we don’t score enough goals, but we really do not have the firepower to enable us to do so, as teams often double up on Wilf, with Ayew being the only other genuine threat. If Roy stays, we stay up. If he goes, there’s a risk that if it goes wrong we could be in trouble. Well I am 43 & to be quite honest I am fed up with the utter dross & rubbish football being served up. 7 wins since October This is all down to the tactics & regimented style. We need a change, the squad needs refreshing with younger talent & this needs to be done a manager that will be with us longer than a year we need to start planning for the future not just the next 12 months.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
dazza Wallington 17 Jul 20 2.48pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
I don’t think it’s disingenuous, but I think the vast majority of those defending Roy massively misunderstand the expectations and wants of those criticising him - I haven’t seen anyone posting on here who’s expectation is hundreds of millions of investment and a team challenging for Europe - most people just want to enjoy watching their football club again. This might be the ‘peak of our mountain’ in terms of league position, but it’s certainly not in terms of performances, and to make out better performances are unattainable or unrealistic is not accurate. We’ve done it numerous times over the last 7 years. No real complaints from me about Roy yesterday, and it did give me some hope that he might be able to get us going again. He changed the shape for the first time in in months, pushed Zaha and Ayew into a front 2 and pulled Macca as a narrow left midfielder. We clearly identified AWB isn’t too much of a threat going forward and having Wilf waste his night chasing him up and down wasn’t a great plan. This also meant Wilf could pick up the ball in different positions making it much harder to double or triple up on him, and why he was able to get turned and running at the centre backs numerous times. (This type of change also puts to bed the utter nonsense that has been flying round that it was our squad which meant Roy had to approach every single game exactly the same - there are tons of tactical changes you can make within the same 11.)
Overall the gulf in quality told, and combined with some questionable decisions, meant we got nothing out of the game - I have no problem with that.
My concern is Roy can’t seem to do this against the so called lesser teams. People say you can’t make changes we’ll look at what Southampton have achieved cause they a manager that accepted his tactics were wrong do changed his team & shape that is what makes a good manager when they find solutions. I run a business & if sat here & said I don’t have the money compete or have no solutions my business would go under so you have to be willing to be flexible, try new ideas & solutions to improve.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Jackeagle London 17 Jul 20 2.53pm | |
---|---|
For those who are bored of his defensive/boring style of play. Would you rather better football and fewer points?! (See Norwich). Unless you have aspirations of being like Leicester/Wolves... which I just think is wildly unrealistic. I know our league position has slipped and we have had a couple of dreadful games, albeit in a tough run of fixtures. I understand some may have higher aspirations, but In terms of league position I think our finishes under Roy will not be bettered by any other manager we could attract.... after all league finishes and results are so clearly more important than style of play, and I am baffled by anyone who might disagree with that!
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
jeeagles 17 Jul 20 3.01pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by SwordFish
Jee, no one is saying there opinions don’t matter but what I’m saying is they base most of their opinions on FIFA , think it’s easy to buy a whole new team , play players out of positions because they do well on FIFA I mean I play FIFA and I have Schlupp and van annholt up front coz of pace !!! That doesn’t mean I’m going mad saying Roy should be doing this ..... People who support Roy are constantly saying that we need to buy a whole new team. It's much cheaper to get rid of the manager.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
PatrickA London 17 Jul 20 3.04pm | |
---|---|
I don’t think people are disagreeing with it in terms of necessarily achieving a higher league positions.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
SwordFish Peasmarsh,East Sussex 17 Jul 20 3.18pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by PatrickA
I don’t think people are disagreeing with it in terms of necessarily achieving a higher league positions. I get what your saying but this is the whole problem! If you play more expansively without quality players and huge investment you get torn to pieces, pardew tried it and we were losing games 3-2 5-4 etc I guarantee you the people wanting him out are the same people wanting Roy out. People will never be happy, get someone in who plays attacking football we will be relegated by Christmas with our squad , bUt iT wIll bE enTeRTaINInG or we keep Roy until we have finances to invest and then look to replace with a longer term manager . At this moment , for our sustained period in the premier league, Roy and his football are our only option and I would take prem survival over exciting football any day of the week, I’m sure Stoke, charlton , West Brom , Sunderland fans would agree with me and wish they could turn the clock back
“This is a crisis, a large crisis.... in fact if you have a moment, it’s a 12 storey crisis, magnificent entrance hall, carpeting throughout, 24 hour portage , and an enormous sign on the roof saying “This , is a large crisis” - Edmund Blackadder |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
redshift Toronto 17 Jul 20 3.21pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by SwordFish
I think what jack (the OP) is saying regards to teenagers is the continuous , slating of Roy and the team from people who would hardly remember our promotion year due to their age. They also think it’s easy to sack a manager and get a better one in or play max Meyer (because he’s rated 80 on FIFA so he must be good . Anyway I’m going to be posting a lot more on here now again , you don’t get the amount of idiots on here as you do Twitter You're giving us way too much credit.
Success will lie to you but failure always tells you the truth. |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Putitout Oxford 17 Jul 20 3.37pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Jackeagle
For those who are bored of his defensive/boring style of play. Would you rather better football and fewer points?! (See Norwich). Unless you have aspirations of being like Leicester/Wolves... which I just think is wildly unrealistic. I know our league position has slipped and we have had a couple of dreadful games, albeit in a tough run of fixtures. I understand some may have higher aspirations, but In terms of league position I think our finishes under Roy will not be bettered by any other manager we could attract.... after all league finishes and results are so clearly more important than style of play, and I am baffled by anyone who might disagree with that!
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Registration is now on our new message board
To login with your existing username you will need to convert your account over to the new message board.
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2024 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.