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Schools crisis.

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Mapletree Croydon 16 Oct 15 8.44pm
Quote Tom-the-eagle at 16 Oct 2015 7.17pm Quote nickgusset at 16 Oct 2015 7.13pm Quote Tom-the-eagle at 16 Oct 2015 7.09pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Oct 2015 4.01pm Quote Tom-the-eagle at 15 Oct 2015 6.36pm Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.42am Pupil numbers growing. Record numbers of teachers leaving (49100) last year. [Link] Good work Gove and Morgan Unfortunately Nick this like so many other threads on here comes down to high numbers of recent arrivals. Now you can say it does not, but we all know you would be either delusional or just lying. I have 3 children of school age who due to their age go to three different schools. The school where my middle child goes to (which is the same school my son left a couple of years ago) has now become full of predominately Eastern European children. All this has happened within the 3 years of him leaving and her starting). The fact is, be it schools, jobs, houses or hospital beds Nick, with an open door immigration policy these kind of things will only ever get worse. You can blame Gove and Morgan all you like, but they’re not the actual ones at fault here. Edited by Tom-the-eagle (15 Oct 2015 6.37pm) Ignoring the fact of an 'open door immigration policy' doesn't exist (presumably you mean the EU freedom of movement) for the moment. Yes, they are the people responsible, as they're in charge of education and part of the British government. Blaming the migrants, is a cop out. EU legistlation is a part of the UK government commitments, which they are required to fulfill and facilitate. Its not like this is a new policy either, its around 10 years old. If they wanted to fund education and teaching they could have, just as New Labour could have done something, but in reality they do what all governments of my lifetime have done in regard to Education, nothing of substance, and a lot of posturing and posing, and then make sure the results of exams are 'high' (after all the business of universities is now hungry for tuition fees). Labour were s**t on education, and the Conservatives have been no better. Neither really care, they want your vote, and will do what business interests tell them they want, and get you to blame the 'Jews'. er..no it is not. If we had less migrants arriving we would have less children in school and therefore we would not require as many teachers, hence no shortage. Simple logistics really. As my earlier post states, over half my daughters school are now Eastern European kids. Lovely kids, have nothing against them etc, however more kids means more school places means more teachers. But it's not the reason for so many quitting. Had a friend from a school I once worked in on the phone to me just now in tearstears. She said she's at breaking point . Fed up with the hours, constant scrutiny and criticisms. It's a shame because she is genuinely a fantastic teacher who the kids adore. Point taken Nick, but there has always been natural wastage in the profession, just like any other profession, with people leaving and coming back etc, is it really any different to say 10 or 20 years ago? Unequivocally yes, it's vastly different.
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Mapletree

Croydon 16 Oct 15 8.44pm

Quote Tom-the-eagle at 16 Oct 2015 7.17pm

Quote nickgusset at 16 Oct 2015 7.13pm

Quote Tom-the-eagle at 16 Oct 2015 7.09pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Oct 2015 4.01pm

Quote Tom-the-eagle at 15 Oct 2015 6.36pm

Quote nickgusset at 15 Oct 2015 7.42am

Pupil numbers growing. Record numbers of teachers leaving (49100) last year.
[Link]

Good work Gove and Morgan

Unfortunately Nick this like so many other threads on here comes down to high numbers of recent arrivals. Now you can say it does not, but we all know you would be either delusional or just lying. I have 3 children of school age who due to their age go to three different schools.
The school where my middle child goes to (which is the same school my son left a couple of years ago) has now become full of predominately Eastern European children. All this has happened within the 3 years of him leaving and her starting). The fact is, be it schools, jobs, houses or hospital beds Nick, with an open door immigration policy these kind of things will only ever get worse.
You can blame Gove and Morgan all you like, but they’re not the actual ones at fault here.

Edited by Tom-the-eagle (15 Oct 2015 6.37pm)

Ignoring the fact of an 'open door immigration policy' doesn't exist (presumably you mean the EU freedom of movement) for the moment.

Yes, they are the people responsible, as they're in charge of education and part of the British government. Blaming the migrants, is a cop out. EU legistlation is a part of the UK government commitments, which they are required to fulfill and facilitate.

Its not like this is a new policy either, its around 10 years old. If they wanted to fund education and teaching they could have, just as New Labour could have done something, but in reality they do what all governments of my lifetime have done in regard to Education, nothing of substance, and a lot of posturing and posing, and then make sure the results of exams are 'high' (after all the business of universities is now hungry for tuition fees).

Labour were s**t on education, and the Conservatives have been no better. Neither really care, they want your vote, and will do what business interests tell them they want, and get you to blame the 'Jews'.

er..no it is not. If we had less migrants arriving we would have less children in school and therefore we would not require as many teachers, hence no shortage. Simple logistics really.

As my earlier post states, over half my daughters school are now Eastern European kids. Lovely kids, have nothing against them etc, however more kids means more school places means more teachers.

But it's not the reason for so many quitting.
Had a friend from a school I once worked in on the phone to me just now in tearstears. She said she's at breaking point . Fed up with the hours, constant scrutiny and criticisms. It's a shame because she is genuinely a fantastic teacher who the kids adore.

Point taken Nick, but there has always been natural wastage in the profession, just like any other profession, with people leaving and coming back etc, is it really any different to say 10 or 20 years ago?

Unequivocally yes, it's vastly different.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 16 Oct 15 10.34pm
Tis death by spreadsheet and data. They want evidence of improvement. Tests generate easy data and you can make nice graphs. The pressure to improve test scores is at the expense of actually educating and giving deeper understanding of the world.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 16 Oct 15 10.34pm

Tis death by spreadsheet and data.
They want evidence of improvement.
Tests generate easy data and you can make nice graphs.
The pressure to improve test scores is at the expense of actually educating and giving deeper understanding of the world.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 16 Oct 15 10.37pm
Oh and yes.I've been teaching for 13 years. It's never been this bad. That's not to say that there aren't schools that are less stressful than others. The teacher turnover at the different Harris academies is shockingly high. It's said by some that Harris burn most new young teachers out within three years and they leave. All that money people fork out on teacher training for nothing!
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 16 Oct 15 10.37pm

Oh and yes.I've been teaching for 13 years. It's never been this bad.
That's not to say that there aren't schools that are less stressful than others.

The teacher turnover at the different Harris academies is shockingly high. It's said by some that Harris burn most new young teachers out within three years and they leave.
All that money people fork out on teacher training for nothing!

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Hrolf The Ganger 17 Oct 15 10.23am
I'm not qualified to discuss the plight of teachers but do they not get loads of school holiday time off to do admin' and non classroom activities ? And do they not get paid quite well ?
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Hrolf The Ganger

17 Oct 15 10.23am

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I'm not qualified to discuss the plight of teachers but do they not get loads of school holiday time off to do admin' and non classroom activities ? And do they not get paid quite well ?

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matt_himself Matataland 17 Oct 15 10.40am
Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 17 Oct 2015 10.23am I'm not qualified to discuss the plight of teachers but do they not get loads of school holiday time off to do admin' and non classroom activities ? And do they not get paid quite well ? Blimey! Brace yourself mate for a tsunami of reasons of why your understanding is 'incorrect' and how teachers are treated worse than Dixie cotton slaves. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 17 Oct 15 10.40am

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 17 Oct 2015 10.23am

I'm not qualified to discuss the plight of teachers but do they not get loads of school holiday time off to do admin' and non classroom activities ? And do they not get paid quite well ?

Blimey! Brace yourself mate for a tsunami of reasons of why your understanding is 'incorrect' and how teachers are treated worse than Dixie cotton slaves.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 17 Oct 15 10.44am
Back in the days of my yoof, teacher smoked in class. I am a qualified teacher, but chose another career after graduating in 1997. The reasons I dumped teaching are not political, though currently teachers seem to be the political 'hot ball'. Teachers are paid the 'going rate', but this does not include overtime for after-school activities, sports days, parents evenings, school trips, marking work, etc, etc. How schools, and teachers are assessed by OFSTED, does not take into account: 1. Whether English is the child's first language 2. Whether the parents speak English 3,.... blah, blah, blah. It comes as no surprise that there is a shortage of teachers And when teachers do have holidays, they have to pay premium rates at the Travel Agents, and go on holiday with kids who's parents didn't take them out of school during term time Edited by Forest Hillbilly (17 Oct 2015 10.46am) I disengage, I turn the page.
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 17 Oct 15 10.44am

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Back in the days of my yoof, teacher smoked in class.

I am a qualified teacher, but chose another career after graduating in 1997.
The reasons I dumped teaching are not political, though currently teachers seem to be the political 'hot ball'.

Teachers are paid the 'going rate', but this does not include overtime for after-school activities, sports days, parents evenings, school trips, marking work, etc, etc.

How schools, and teachers are assessed by OFSTED, does not take into account:
1. Whether English is the child's first language
2. Whether the parents speak English
3,....
blah, blah, blah.

It comes as no surprise that there is a shortage of teachers

And when teachers do have holidays, they have to pay premium rates at the Travel Agents, and go on holiday with kids who's parents didn't take them out of school during term time

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (17 Oct 2015 10.46am)

I disengage, I turn the page.

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Hoof Hearted 17 Oct 15 10.53am
Quote matt_himself at 17 Oct 2015 10.40am Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 17 Oct 2015 10.23am I'm not qualified to discuss the plight of teachers but do they not get loads of school holiday time off to do admin' and non classroom activities ? And do they not get paid quite well ? Blimey! Brace yourself mate for a tsunami of reasons of why your understanding is 'incorrect' and how teachers are treated worse than Dixie cotton slaves. Yee hahhh.... espesharly from Cotton Eyed Nick!
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Hoof Hearted 17 Oct 15 10.53am

Quote matt_himself at 17 Oct 2015 10.40am

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 17 Oct 2015 10.23am

I'm not qualified to discuss the plight of teachers but do they not get loads of school holiday time off to do admin' and non classroom activities ? And do they not get paid quite well ?

Blimey! Brace yourself mate for a tsunami of reasons of why your understanding is 'incorrect' and how teachers are treated worse than Dixie cotton slaves.

Yee hahhh.... espesharly from Cotton Eyed Nick!

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Kermit8 Hevon 17 Oct 15 11.00am
Not many on here would last two days working in an inner city school unless it was as a janitor. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 17 Oct 15 11.00am

Not many on here would last two days working in an inner city school unless it was as a janitor.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Stirlingsays 17 Oct 15 11.08am
Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 17 Oct 2015 10.23am I'm not qualified to discuss the plight of teachers but do they not get loads of school holiday time off to do admin' and non classroom activities ? And do they not get paid quite well ? What are you saying Hrolf/Matt? If the job were particularly good it wouldn't be having problems would if? The biggest attractions for graduates into teaching.....After that idealism has worn off is the summer holidays off and the pension....But both of those have been reduced now. I was asked to work for half of term time last year. Academies can do what they like. The pension is still good.....But you have to stick it out of course and the government has done its real best to ensure that fewer are making it till the end. Pay? It isn't good pay for a graduate job no....I don't see how anyone can say that. They have bought in performance pay, which for anyone who has taught in roughhouse schools knows is ridiculous. The workload is ridiculous in teaching....It simply is. I've been in the job for six years now and I'm permanently surprised at the piss take that managers expect. 50/60 hours a week is an average Basically we are losing too many teachers....From inside the profession it's easy to see why it's just a combination of the following. Workload Behaviour Pay Class sizes 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

17 Oct 15 11.08am

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 17 Oct 2015 10.23am

I'm not qualified to discuss the plight of teachers but do they not get loads of school holiday time off to do admin' and non classroom activities ? And do they not get paid quite well ?

What are you saying Hrolf/Matt? If the job were particularly good it wouldn't be having problems would if?

The biggest attractions for graduates into teaching.....After that idealism has worn off is the summer holidays off and the pension....But both of those have been reduced now. I was asked to work for half of term time last year. Academies can do what they like.

The pension is still good.....But you have to stick it out of course and the government has done its real best to ensure that fewer are making it till the end.

Pay? It isn't good pay for a graduate job no....I don't see how anyone can say that. They have bought in performance pay, which for anyone who has taught in roughhouse schools knows is ridiculous.

The workload is ridiculous in teaching....It simply is. I've been in the job for six years now and I'm permanently surprised at the piss take that managers expect. 50/60 hours a week is an average

Basically we are losing too many teachers....From inside the profession it's easy to see why it's just a combination of the following.

Workload
Behaviour
Pay
Class sizes

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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matt_himself Matataland 17 Oct 15 11.41am
Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Oct 2015 11.08am Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 17 Oct 2015 10.23am I'm not qualified to discuss the plight of teachers but do they not get loads of school holiday time off to do admin' and non classroom activities ? And do they not get paid quite well ? What are you saying Hrolf/Matt? If the job were particularly good it wouldn't be having problems would if? The biggest attractions for graduates into teaching.....After that idealism has worn off is the summer holidays off and the pension....But both of those have been reduced now. I was asked to work for half of term time last year. Academies can do what they like. The pension is still good.....But you have to stick it out of course and the government has done its real best to ensure that fewer are making it till the end. Pay? It isn't good pay for a graduate job no....I don't see how anyone can say that. They have bought in performance pay, which for anyone who has taught in roughhouse schools knows is ridiculous. The workload is ridiculous in teaching....It simply is. I've been in the job for six years now and I'm permanently surprised at the piss take that managers expect. 50/60 hours a week is an average Basically we are losing too many teachers....From inside the profession it's easy to see why it's just a combination of the following. Workload Behaviour Pay Class sizes I was commenting on the likely effects of the post and not commenting upon the subject matter. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 17 Oct 15 11.41am

Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Oct 2015 11.08am

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 17 Oct 2015 10.23am

I'm not qualified to discuss the plight of teachers but do they not get loads of school holiday time off to do admin' and non classroom activities ? And do they not get paid quite well ?

What are you saying Hrolf/Matt? If the job were particularly good it wouldn't be having problems would if?

The pension is still good.....But you have to stick it out of course and the government has done its real best to ensure that fewer are making it till the end.

Pay? It isn't good pay for a graduate job no....I don't see how anyone can say that. They have bought in performance pay, which for anyone who has taught in roughhouse schools knows is ridiculous.

The workload is ridiculous in teaching....It simply is. I've been in the job for six years now and I'm permanently surprised at the piss take that managers expect. 50/60 hours a week is an average

Basically we are losing too many teachers....From inside the profession it's easy to see why it's just a combination of the following.

Workload
Behaviour
Pay
Class sizes

I was commenting on the likely effects of the post and not commenting upon the subject matter.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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oldcodger 17 Oct 15 12.05pm
Quote Kermit8 at 17 Oct 2015 11.00am Not many on here would last two days working in an inner city school unless it was as a janitor. I can well believe it. One of my sisters kids teaches and is always exhausted. As with anything, it's easy for people to criticise when they know nothing about it.
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oldcodger

17 Oct 15 12.05pm

Quote Kermit8 at 17 Oct 2015 11.00am

Not many on here would last two days working in an inner city school unless it was as a janitor.

I can well believe it. One of my sisters kids teaches and is always exhausted. As with anything, it's easy for people to criticise when they know nothing about it.

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Sportyteacher London 17 Oct 15 12.12pm
Quote nickgusset at 16 Oct 2015 10.37pm Oh and yes.I've been teaching for 13 years. It's never been this bad. That's not to say that there aren't schools that are less stressful than others. The teacher turnover at the different Harris academies is shockingly high. It's said by some that Harris burn most new young teachers out within three years and they leave. All that money people fork out on teacher training for nothing! What of the whistleblower for Harris Kenley who reported gross professional misconduct with their recent HMI inspection e.g. weaker teachers replaced by supply for the day and the worst of the naughty kids told to stay at home. Ofsted yet to investigate ...but then again, what do you expect when top brass of the organisation were formerly senior ACADEMY employees e.g. 'Ark & HARRIS. By the way, Lord Harris of Peckham has been a regular Conservative Party donor. Jobs and honours for the boys, eh?
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Sportyteacher

London 17 Oct 15 12.12pm

Quote nickgusset at 16 Oct 2015 10.37pm

Oh and yes.I've been teaching for 13 years. It's never been this bad.
That's not to say that there aren't schools that are less stressful than others.

What of the whistleblower for Harris Kenley who reported gross professional misconduct with their recent HMI inspection e.g. weaker teachers replaced by supply for the day and the worst of the naughty kids told to stay at home. Ofsted yet to investigate ...but then again, what do you expect when top brass of the organisation were formerly senior ACADEMY employees e.g. 'Ark & HARRIS. By the way, Lord Harris of Peckham has been a regular Conservative Party donor. Jobs and honours for the boys, eh?

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