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Strangeways protest
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jamiemartin721  Reading 16 Sep 15 1.04pm |
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Quote dannyh at 16 Sep 2015 10.52am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Sep 2015 10.13am
Quote susmik at 16 Sep 2015 9.43am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Sep 2015 9.25am
Quote Jimenez at 15 Sep 2015 10.16pm
Quote peppermax at 15 Sep 2015 10.04pm
Just don't think you can complain or protest about conditions in prison etc... when you've taken someone else's life. You lose that right just like the other guy lost his life. common sense?
Prisoners should be allowed to vote, within certain parameters. They are the only disenfranchised people in the UK - and consequently have no representation in government. They're prisoners, not animals. I believe that a degree of enfranchisement would be beneficial to the prison system, conditions and prison employees lives. Why do they act like animals then? They don't, not in vast majority of cases. There are some who probably are definite 'wrong uns' but in my experience most prisoners aren't fundamentally bad people. But if you keep treating people like animals, they will become them. The important thing with prisoners is to remember that we will be releasing these people back into society. If you treat them like animals, and just punish them and take out societies frustrations on them, then you'll be releasing people who are more of a threat to society than before they went to prison.
What the clucking bell are they doing in jail then. This guy gunned someone down in cold blood, who gives a fcuk if his cells a bit drafty, or he hasnt got access to the internet. Prision is a punishment. The only thing they should learn inside is that they never want to go back as its so sh1tty. The only thing I believe should be improved is that if the sentance is over 1 year,then re training should be in place for the last six months. Other than that fcuk em. Edited by dannyh (16 Sep 2015 10.53am) They aren't, some might be, but there isn't really any evidence to suggest that more than a percentage of these people are fundermentally bad (ie irredeemably). Personally I think prison has to at its very basis be aimed at reforming, rehabilitating or re-education of the prisoner towards a goal of becoming a functional member of society and that prison needs to serve this purpose above all others (and punishment has a role to play in doing this). And we should punish those who fail to engage in a series 'reformatting and re-education' goals with non release. People should leave prison with a trade or skillset, literate to at least GCSE level, possessed of addressed mental health and addiction problems and a three year work placement in a different part of the country, with failure to complete that resulting in a return to prison. The problem that arises from 's**ty' prisons, punishment driven solutions and nasty prison conditions, is that it simply doesn't result in people never wanting to go back (no one wants to go in the first place), but generally in an escalation of criminality and more issues being piled into the situation. That's not to say a regime has to be 'what the prisoner wants either'.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 16 Sep 15 1.06pm |
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Quote sickboy at 16 Sep 2015 12.13pm
Quote Pawson Palace at 16 Sep 2015 11.33am
Quote dannyh at 16 Sep 2015 10.52am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Sep 2015 10.13am
Quote susmik at 16 Sep 2015 9.43am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Sep 2015 9.25am
Quote Jimenez at 15 Sep 2015 10.16pm
Quote peppermax at 15 Sep 2015 10.04pm
Just don't think you can complain or protest about conditions in prison etc... when you've taken someone else's life. You lose that right just like the other guy lost his life. common sense?
Prisoners should be allowed to vote, within certain parameters. They are the only disenfranchised people in the UK - and consequently have no representation in government. They're prisoners, not animals. I believe that a degree of enfranchisement would be beneficial to the prison system, conditions and prison employees lives. Why do they act like animals then? They don't, not in vast majority of cases. There are some who probably are definite 'wrong uns' but in my experience most prisoners aren't fundamentally bad people. But if you keep treating people like animals, they will become them. The important thing with prisoners is to remember that we will be releasing these people back into society. If you treat them like animals, and just punish them and take out societies frustrations on them, then you'll be releasing people who are more of a threat to society than before they went to prison.
What the clucking bell are they doing in jail then. This guy gunned someone down in cold blood, who gives a fcuk if his cells a bit drafty, or he hasnt got access to the internet. Prision is a punishment. The only thing they should learn inside is that they never want to go back as its so sh1tty. The only thing I believe should be improved is that if the sentance is over 1 year,then re training should be in place for the last six months. Other than that fcuk em. Edited by dannyh (16 Sep 2015 10.53am) Wasn't just anyone was his OWN UNCLE!!
From a legal perspective, murderers have the highest level of rehabilitation in the entire prison system. Does anyone know why he killed his uncle. Murder is very rarely a crime without motive.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| leggedstruggle Croydon 16 Sep 15 1.44pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Sep 2015 9.25am
Quote Jimenez at 15 Sep 2015 10.16pm
Quote peppermax at 15 Sep 2015 10.04pm
Just don't think you can complain or protest about conditions in prison etc... when you've taken someone else's life. You lose that right just like the other guy lost his life. common sense?
Prisoners should be allowed to vote, within certain parameters. They are the only disenfranchised people in the UK - and consequently have no representation in government. They're prisoners, not animals. I believe that a degree of enfranchisement would be beneficial to the prison system, conditions and prison employees lives. Not quite. Members of the House of Lords cannot vote. Neither can 'idiots' (although one could argue that this is ignored these days with the likes of the TUSC vote). 'Lunatics in their lucid periods' are allowed to vote, which means that Leagaleagle can sometimes get to make his mark.
mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler |
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 susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 16 Sep 15 2.00pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Sep 2015 12.47pm
Quote susmik at 16 Sep 2015 10.42am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Sep 2015 10.13am
Quote susmik at 16 Sep 2015 9.43am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Sep 2015 9.25am
Quote Jimenez at 15 Sep 2015 10.16pm
Quote peppermax at 15 Sep 2015 10.04pm
Just don't think you can complain or protest about conditions in prison etc... when you've taken someone else's life. You lose that right just like the other guy lost his life. common sense?
Prisoners should be allowed to vote, within certain parameters. They are the only disenfranchised people in the UK - and consequently have no representation in government. They're prisoners, not animals. I believe that a degree of enfranchisement would be beneficial to the prison system, conditions and prison employees lives. Why do they act like animals then? They don't, not in vast majority of cases. There are some who probably are definite 'wrong uns' but in my experience most prisoners aren't fundamentally bad people. But if you keep treating people like animals, they will become them. The important thing with prisoners is to remember that we will be releasing these people back into society. If you treat them like animals, and just punish them and take out societies frustrations on them, then you'll be releasing people who are more of a threat to society than before they went to prison. They get treated like animals because a majority of them do act like animals hence the reason they are banged up. Are you one of those do gooders that see everyone as angels and butter would not melt in their mouth? The guy on the rooftop is a KILLER so all the bad treatment he gets is justified in my opinion and many others opinion also. I think you just like to be on these boards for one reason and that is to disagree with everyone else's opinion....Take a chill pill please. Says the ranting man What I'm saying isn't really about do gooding or angels, but the reality. If you just put people in a cell 23 hours a day and then release them, what can you expect? Change? Similarly prison systems which are 'harsh punishment driven' or 'violent hell holes' just produce more dangerous people, who then have to be released back into society, with minimal restriction, no real prospects and several years worth of issues and resentments, along with some increased criminal knowledge. Obviously you can't help everyone. But you can help some people. Not everyone in prison is a raping sex pedo murderer or lacking in any reasonable qualities, but just fairly normal people. We need a prison system that actually serves societies needs, not our own moral desires.
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
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| 7@burnley79 Battersea 16 Sep 15 3.37pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Sep 2015 9.25am
Quote Jimenez at 15 Sep 2015 10.16pm
Quote peppermax at 15 Sep 2015 10.04pm
Just don't think you can complain or protest about conditions in prison etc... when you've taken someone else's life. You lose that right just like the other guy lost his life. common sense?
Prisoners should be allowed to vote, within certain parameters. They are the only disenfranchised people in the UK - and consequently have no representation in government. They're prisoners, not animals. I believe that a degree of enfranchisement would be beneficial to the prison system, conditions and prison employees lives. I've heard it all now. Next your be saying they should adjudicate their own trials. Save more money for better play station games and back rubs.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 16 Sep 15 3.42pm |
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Quote 7@burnley79 at 16 Sep 2015 3.37pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Sep 2015 9.25am
Quote Jimenez at 15 Sep 2015 10.16pm
Quote peppermax at 15 Sep 2015 10.04pm
Just don't think you can complain or protest about conditions in prison etc... when you've taken someone else's life. You lose that right just like the other guy lost his life. common sense?
Prisoners should be allowed to vote, within certain parameters. They are the only disenfranchised people in the UK - and consequently have no representation in government. They're prisoners, not animals. I believe that a degree of enfranchisement would be beneficial to the prison system, conditions and prison employees lives. I've heard it all now. Next your be saying they should adjudicate their own trials. Save more money for better play station games and back rubs. So what value does not allowing them to vote serve? Would it improve the prison service, the experience of prison officers or the conditions in prison.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 16 Sep 15 3.48pm |
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Quote susmik at 16 Sep 2015 2.00pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Sep 2015 12.47pm
Quote susmik at 16 Sep 2015 10.42am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Sep 2015 10.13am
Quote susmik at 16 Sep 2015 9.43am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Sep 2015 9.25am
Quote Jimenez at 15 Sep 2015 10.16pm
Quote peppermax at 15 Sep 2015 10.04pm
Just don't think you can complain or protest about conditions in prison etc... when you've taken someone else's life. You lose that right just like the other guy lost his life. common sense?
Prisoners should be allowed to vote, within certain parameters. They are the only disenfranchised people in the UK - and consequently have no representation in government. They're prisoners, not animals. I believe that a degree of enfranchisement would be beneficial to the prison system, conditions and prison employees lives. Why do they act like animals then? They don't, not in vast majority of cases. There are some who probably are definite 'wrong uns' but in my experience most prisoners aren't fundamentally bad people. But if you keep treating people like animals, they will become them. The important thing with prisoners is to remember that we will be releasing these people back into society. If you treat them like animals, and just punish them and take out societies frustrations on them, then you'll be releasing people who are more of a threat to society than before they went to prison. They get treated like animals because a majority of them do act like animals hence the reason they are banged up. Are you one of those do gooders that see everyone as angels and butter would not melt in their mouth? The guy on the rooftop is a KILLER so all the bad treatment he gets is justified in my opinion and many others opinion also. I think you just like to be on these boards for one reason and that is to disagree with everyone else's opinion....Take a chill pill please. Says the ranting man What I'm saying isn't really about do gooding or angels, but the reality. If you just put people in a cell 23 hours a day and then release them, what can you expect? Change? Similarly prison systems which are 'harsh punishment driven' or 'violent hell holes' just produce more dangerous people, who then have to be released back into society, with minimal restriction, no real prospects and several years worth of issues and resentments, along with some increased criminal knowledge. Obviously you can't help everyone. But you can help some people. Not everyone in prison is a raping sex pedo murderer or lacking in any reasonable qualities, but just fairly normal people. We need a prison system that actually serves societies needs, not our own moral desires.
I'm currently studying for my second degree, in Criminology, so its a subject that interests me. I also used to be against the idea of prisoners voting, until I realized that I could see no really valuable reason behind it. That's why I'm trying to engage ideas and maybe discuss flaws in those ideas. I don't think I'm always right. The problem with the idea of prison as just punishment and treating people like animals, is that you then have to release those people back into society. I'm not saying people are wrong, but its a short sited approach. As for lonely, not really, and I'm self employed, so my work is conducted around this. I'm quite good at what I do, so I get a lot of spare time.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 16 Sep 15 3.52pm |
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Quote leggedstruggle at 16 Sep 2015 1.44pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Sep 2015 9.25am
Quote Jimenez at 15 Sep 2015 10.16pm
Quote peppermax at 15 Sep 2015 10.04pm
Just don't think you can complain or protest about conditions in prison etc... when you've taken someone else's life. You lose that right just like the other guy lost his life. common sense?
Prisoners should be allowed to vote, within certain parameters. They are the only disenfranchised people in the UK - and consequently have no representation in government. They're prisoners, not animals. I believe that a degree of enfranchisement would be beneficial to the prison system, conditions and prison employees lives. Not quite. Members of the House of Lords cannot vote. Neither can 'idiots' (although one could argue that this is ignored these days with the likes of the TUSC vote). 'Lunatics in their lucid periods' are allowed to vote, which means that Leagaleagle can sometimes get to make his mark. The mentally ill are enfranchised, provided they're not serving time 'for diminished responsibility' crimes. I thought that until recently, when I think Stuk or Sterling mentioned it (Could have been Seth). The House of Lords, whilst they cannot vote in elections, do get to vote on everything that is passed in the House of Commons. So it is only people serving time that are the only people in the UK who have no capacity to engage or be represented in the democratic process or any say in the country.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| 7@burnley79 Battersea 16 Sep 15 3.55pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Sep 2015 3.42pm
Quote 7@burnley79 at 16 Sep 2015 3.37pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Sep 2015 9.25am
Quote Jimenez at 15 Sep 2015 10.16pm
Quote peppermax at 15 Sep 2015 10.04pm
Just don't think you can complain or protest about conditions in prison etc... when you've taken someone else's life. You lose that right just like the other guy lost his life. common sense?
Prisoners should be allowed to vote, within certain parameters. They are the only disenfranchised people in the UK - and consequently have no representation in government. They're prisoners, not animals. I believe that a degree of enfranchisement would be beneficial to the prison system, conditions and prison employees lives. I've heard it all now. Next your be saying they should adjudicate their own trials. Save more money for better play station games and back rubs. So what value does not allowing them to vote serve? Would it improve the prison service, the experience of prison officers or the conditions in prison. The point of being in prison is you've lost the right to take part James. Thats why your there... It rather simple when you break down the reason for it and keep the playstation and art therapist brigade at bay.
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| Stuk Top half 16 Sep 15 4.17pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 Sep 2015 3.42pm
So what value does not allowing them to vote serve? Would it improve the prison service, the experience of prison officers or the conditions in prison.
Optimistic as ever |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 16 Sep 15 4.18pm |
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Quote 7@burnley79 at 16 Sep 2015 3.55pm
The point of being in prison is you've lost the right to take part James. Thats why your there... It rather simple when you break down the reason for it and keep the playstation and art therapist brigade at bay. Its up to you if you want to give a back rub, but i suggest you put your crayons down. Seems reasonable enough, but who represents prisons but not just that, the effectiveness of prisons to serve society if we don't allow prisoners some capacity to vote. The problem of recent times is that any kind of prison cuts are easily sold to the electorate. Some of them make sense, others simply are political capital - such as cutting prison funding by 20%, reducing prison education and rehabilitation facilities. The consequence of this, is that rehabilition rates drop as a result. I'm in no way a backrub, playstations give the convict a handjob kind of person. As far as I'm concerned the end result of prison is that the person coming out is less likely to re-offend (in fact I would argue for reforming prison systems to remove sentences, so that in effect release is goal driven by incentives that facilitation socialization and conditioning towards becoming a better citizen than when you went inside - but that's a longer argument). For me, the right to vote, should be something a prisoner earns, same with any privilege in prison. The best method of rehabilitation is positive reinforcement. I want a prison system where only people who have really shown solid progress towards rehabilitation are released.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 16 Sep 15 4.45pm |
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There are plenty of people in prison for things like not paying fines or TV licence evasion - so they are hardly all the scum of the earth (although from some of the more hardline posters these may seem like crimes punishable by death). However, Strangeways is a little different so pretty much a moot point. I always thought Strangeways is a Hospital/prison - am I wrong?
Red and Blue Army! |
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