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jamiemartin721 Reading 02 Sep 15 1.21pm | |
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Quote leggedstruggle at 02 Sep 2015 12.32pm
I don't accept that migration is a means of revenue generation, we are told it is as propaganda. Even if it were true, the problems of non-integration, anti-British 'communities', terrorism, high crime rates amongst immigrant communities, strain on housing, health services and education, lower wages and competition for jobs makes any supposed advantages worthless. What constitutes an anti-British community though? In terms of the UK, terrorism, seems to have a history of being by people who are British (UK Born Muslims and British Irish). High crime rates among migrant communities, is that a production of the migration, or the economic factors - Is it a universal factor that all migrant communities have higher crime rates? Strain on Housing? Maybe a factor, but its hardly driving it, and I'd imagine that a large number of people who rent properties in the UK would struggle to meet their mortgages without migrants. Education, seems that certain ethnic groups fare much better in UK education, that the 'traditional' ethnic groups. Quote leggedstruggle at 02 Sep 2015 12.32pm
Certainly I am against practically nearly all immigration, no doubt we can come up with some exceptions, but the numbers involved would be extremely small - not sure how I could make myself clearer. ("I can never quite work out what you mean sometimes", coming from you, Jamie, made me smile.) Edited by leggedstruggle (02 Sep 2015 12.46pm) In a twist of irony, so am I. I generally believe that the UK's first responsibility is to fill employment from its own citizens, and that the use of EU migrant labour undermines the working class across the board. Illegal Immigrants - Those employing illegal migrant labour should be targeted, Imprisoned and have their assets seized. Those involved in human trafficking are little more than slave traders, and should be considered an enemy of the state. Those caught working illegally, should be processed and deported, unless they are acting as a witness for the prosecution, in which case special circumstances for citizenship should be made based on individual circumstances. Working migration should only exist to fill areas of skill shortage, not jobs anyone reasonably capable person could do. Migration through marriage etc - Fair enough, if you're having people working in the UK, you have to allow for the possibility of them falling in love with residents and settling down. Similarly, after a long enough period of working in the UK, you have to start to consider that person as a potential citizen as well. The only area I don't think we can really skimp on is Refugees and Asylum, simply on humanitarian grounds. I don't think permanent residence should be granted unless safe return inside of ten years is unlikely.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 02 Sep 15 1.27pm | |
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Quote Stuk at 02 Sep 2015 1.15pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Sep 2015 12.55pm
Quote Stuk at 02 Sep 2015 12.31pm
What do the non-working migrants contribute exactly? Bear in mind that those advocating letting everyone in, are talking about letting in migrants who will not be allowed to work. (ps please don't say "let them work then" as they'd need to change that law beforehand, not afterwards.) They probably won't, but then they aren't migrants, they're asylum seekers / refugees. I'm not willing to send people back to war torn s**tholes where rape and murder are domestic policy. And I believe that this should be set not by which country they make it to, but regulated and controlled centrally, with the dispora sent to different countries on a more or less equal basis. I don't advocate letting everyone in, either, never have been, never will be.
Or are you just saying that this should only apply to European countries and we should be dictated to by the EU, despite having the forethought to not join in their ridiculous Schengen zone. I think you really need to look at a UN organization, such as those already involved with refugees or NGO with the idea being to equally distribute the application processing, rather than localize it. Ideally you want an organization that's can process waves of refugees in border states to a crisis as well.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Stuk Top half 02 Sep 15 1.29pm | |
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Quote twist at 02 Sep 2015 1.18pm
What is the law/policy for immigrants who commit crime ? Are they deported ? Does it have to be a certain level of crime to be deported ? or are they banged up in prison with general population ? I am not suggesting that immigrants are more likely to commit crime than citizens, i am just asking if there is a policy to send them back if they do.
Or they fight you to the death in the case of one Angolan bloke they did get on a plane.
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Stuk Top half 02 Sep 15 1.32pm | |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Sep 2015 1.27pm
Quote Stuk at 02 Sep 2015 1.15pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Sep 2015 12.55pm
Quote Stuk at 02 Sep 2015 12.31pm
What do the non-working migrants contribute exactly? Bear in mind that those advocating letting everyone in, are talking about letting in migrants who will not be allowed to work. (ps please don't say "let them work then" as they'd need to change that law beforehand, not afterwards.) They probably won't, but then they aren't migrants, they're asylum seekers / refugees. I'm not willing to send people back to war torn s**tholes where rape and murder are domestic policy. And I believe that this should be set not by which country they make it to, but regulated and controlled centrally, with the dispora sent to different countries on a more or less equal basis. I don't advocate letting everyone in, either, never have been, never will be.
Or are you just saying that this should only apply to European countries and we should be dictated to by the EU, despite having the forethought to not join in their ridiculous Schengen zone. I think you really need to look at a UN organization, such as those already involved with refugees or NGO with the idea being to equally distribute the application processing, rather than localize it. Ideally you want an organization that's can process waves of refugees in border states to a crisis as well. They have no power to enforce anything on any country. And what happens when you decide that they have to go to let's say Mexico and they all say no.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 02 Sep 15 1.34pm | |
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Quote Stuk at 02 Sep 2015 1.29pm
Quote twist at 02 Sep 2015 1.18pm
What is the law/policy for immigrants who commit crime ? Are they deported ? Does it have to be a certain level of crime to be deported ? or are they banged up in prison with general population ? I am not suggesting that immigrants are more likely to commit crime than citizens, i am just asking if there is a policy to send them back if they do.
Or they fight you to the death in the case of one Angolan bloke they did get on a plane. They're eligible for automatic deportation after they've served their sentence. There are issues, as Stuk pointed out, that in fact they retain legal rights under deportation laws (as do their family). If they're here under Asylum laws its almost impossible to deport them, for obvious reasons.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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johnfirewall 02 Sep 15 1.36pm | |
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Quote Stuk at 02 Sep 2015 1.29pm
Quote twist at 02 Sep 2015 1.18pm
What is the law/policy for immigrants who commit crime ? Are they deported ? Does it have to be a certain level of crime to be deported ? or are they banged up in prison with general population ? I am not suggesting that immigrants are more likely to commit crime than citizens, i am just asking if there is a policy to send them back if they do.
Or they fight you to the death in the case of one Angolan bloke they did get on a plane. Another defence was the right to a family life because they had a cat Of course the signifcance of the cat is disputed but if all you've got to do is shack up with someone for a couple of years, that's still pretty shaky grounds to remain in the country, not least if you're a criminal and would otherwise be locked up away from this 'partner' anyway. Edited by johnfirewall (02 Sep 2015 1.38pm)
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jamiemartin721 Reading 02 Sep 15 1.38pm | |
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Quote Stuk at 02 Sep 2015 1.32pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Sep 2015 1.27pm
Quote Stuk at 02 Sep 2015 1.15pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Sep 2015 12.55pm
Quote Stuk at 02 Sep 2015 12.31pm
What do the non-working migrants contribute exactly? Bear in mind that those advocating letting everyone in, are talking about letting in migrants who will not be allowed to work. (ps please don't say "let them work then" as they'd need to change that law beforehand, not afterwards.) They probably won't, but then they aren't migrants, they're asylum seekers / refugees. I'm not willing to send people back to war torn s**tholes where rape and murder are domestic policy. And I believe that this should be set not by which country they make it to, but regulated and controlled centrally, with the dispora sent to different countries on a more or less equal basis. I don't advocate letting everyone in, either, never have been, never will be.
Or are you just saying that this should only apply to European countries and we should be dictated to by the EU, despite having the forethought to not join in their ridiculous Schengen zone. I think you really need to look at a UN organization, such as those already involved with refugees or NGO with the idea being to equally distribute the application processing, rather than localize it. Ideally you want an organization that's can process waves of refugees in border states to a crisis as well. They have no power to enforce anything on any country. And what happens when you decide that they have to go to let's say Mexico and they all say no. Then they get to return home. Clearly you can't use countries which are 'unstable' or a 'risk' (can't send a gay man to Angola who's fled Iran) , but clearly if you're not happy relocating to Mexico or Western Super-Mare your life isn't at risk, and you can go back to Syria. That's how I see it. Even Preston should look a better option to someone who is a genuine refugee.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 02 Sep 15 1.39pm | |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Sep 2015 1.38pm
Quote Stuk at 02 Sep 2015 1.32pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Sep 2015 1.27pm
Quote Stuk at 02 Sep 2015 1.15pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Sep 2015 12.55pm
Quote Stuk at 02 Sep 2015 12.31pm
What do the non-working migrants contribute exactly? Bear in mind that those advocating letting everyone in, are talking about letting in migrants who will not be allowed to work. (ps please don't say "let them work then" as they'd need to change that law beforehand, not afterwards.) They probably won't, but then they aren't migrants, they're asylum seekers / refugees. I'm not willing to send people back to war torn s**tholes where rape and murder are domestic policy. And I believe that this should be set not by which country they make it to, but regulated and controlled centrally, with the dispora sent to different countries on a more or less equal basis. I don't advocate letting everyone in, either, never have been, never will be.
Or are you just saying that this should only apply to European countries and we should be dictated to by the EU, despite having the forethought to not join in their ridiculous Schengen zone. I think you really need to look at a UN organization, such as those already involved with refugees or NGO with the idea being to equally distribute the application processing, rather than localize it. Ideally you want an organization that's can process waves of refugees in border states to a crisis as well. They have no power to enforce anything on any country. And what happens when you decide that they have to go to let's say Mexico and they all say no. Then they get to return home. Clearly you can't use countries which are 'unstable' or a 'risk' (can't send a gay man to Angola who's fled Iran) , but clearly if you're not happy relocating to Mexico or Western Super-Mare your life isn't at risk, and you can go back to Syria. That's how I see it. Even Preston should look a better option to someone who is a genuine refugee. What about Bradford ? I had heard that Syria has a bad problem with people from Bradford trying to get in ?
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 02 Sep 15 1.40pm | |
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Quote johnfirewall at 02 Sep 2015 1.36pm
Quote Stuk at 02 Sep 2015 1.29pm
Quote twist at 02 Sep 2015 1.18pm
What is the law/policy for immigrants who commit crime ? Are they deported ? Does it have to be a certain level of crime to be deported ? or are they banged up in prison with general population ? I am not suggesting that immigrants are more likely to commit crime than citizens, i am just asking if there is a policy to send them back if they do.
Or they fight you to the death in the case of one Angolan bloke they did get on a plane. Another defence was the right to a family life because they had a cat Of course the signifcance of the cat is disputed but if all you've got to do is shack up with someone for a couple of years, that's still pretty shaky grounds to remain in the country, not least if you're a criminal and would otherwise be locked up away from this 'partner' anyway. Edited by johnfirewall (02 Sep 2015 1.38pm) More disproven, as the cat wasn't even mentioned in the Judges summing up. The oddity here is more that its the other parties rights that are considered affected (its not so much the convicts right to a family life, but his partner - who if he was deported would be deemed to being punished unfairly, similarly their children). Odd as that sounds.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 02 Sep 15 1.41pm | |
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Quote dannyh at 02 Sep 2015 1.39pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Sep 2015 1.38pm
Quote Stuk at 02 Sep 2015 1.32pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Sep 2015 1.27pm
Quote Stuk at 02 Sep 2015 1.15pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Sep 2015 12.55pm
Quote Stuk at 02 Sep 2015 12.31pm
What do the non-working migrants contribute exactly? Bear in mind that those advocating letting everyone in, are talking about letting in migrants who will not be allowed to work. (ps please don't say "let them work then" as they'd need to change that law beforehand, not afterwards.) They probably won't, but then they aren't migrants, they're asylum seekers / refugees. I'm not willing to send people back to war torn s**tholes where rape and murder are domestic policy. And I believe that this should be set not by which country they make it to, but regulated and controlled centrally, with the dispora sent to different countries on a more or less equal basis. I don't advocate letting everyone in, either, never have been, never will be.
Or are you just saying that this should only apply to European countries and we should be dictated to by the EU, despite having the forethought to not join in their ridiculous Schengen zone. I think you really need to look at a UN organization, such as those already involved with refugees or NGO with the idea being to equally distribute the application processing, rather than localize it. Ideally you want an organization that's can process waves of refugees in border states to a crisis as well. They have no power to enforce anything on any country. And what happens when you decide that they have to go to let's say Mexico and they all say no. Then they get to return home. Clearly you can't use countries which are 'unstable' or a 'risk' (can't send a gay man to Angola who's fled Iran) , but clearly if you're not happy relocating to Mexico or Western Super-Mare your life isn't at risk, and you can go back to Syria. That's how I see it. Even Preston should look a better option to someone who is a genuine refugee. What about Bradford ? I had heard that Syria has a bad problem with people from Bradford trying to get in ? Those are people fleeing from Leeds.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Stuk Top half 02 Sep 15 1.50pm | |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Sep 2015 1.38pm
Quote Stuk at 02 Sep 2015 1.32pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Sep 2015 1.27pm
Quote Stuk at 02 Sep 2015 1.15pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Sep 2015 12.55pm
Quote Stuk at 02 Sep 2015 12.31pm
What do the non-working migrants contribute exactly? Bear in mind that those advocating letting everyone in, are talking about letting in migrants who will not be allowed to work. (ps please don't say "let them work then" as they'd need to change that law beforehand, not afterwards.) They probably won't, but then they aren't migrants, they're asylum seekers / refugees. I'm not willing to send people back to war torn s**tholes where rape and murder are domestic policy. And I believe that this should be set not by which country they make it to, but regulated and controlled centrally, with the dispora sent to different countries on a more or less equal basis. I don't advocate letting everyone in, either, never have been, never will be.
Or are you just saying that this should only apply to European countries and we should be dictated to by the EU, despite having the forethought to not join in their ridiculous Schengen zone. I think you really need to look at a UN organization, such as those already involved with refugees or NGO with the idea being to equally distribute the application processing, rather than localize it. Ideally you want an organization that's can process waves of refugees in border states to a crisis as well. They have no power to enforce anything on any country. And what happens when you decide that they have to go to let's say Mexico and they all say no. Then they get to return home. Clearly you can't use countries which are 'unstable' or a 'risk' (can't send a gay man to Angola who's fled Iran) , but clearly if you're not happy relocating to Mexico or Western Super-Mare your life isn't at risk, and you can go back to Syria. That's how I see it. Even Preston should look a better option to someone who is a genuine refugee.
I like the idea but they'll find a reason why they can't go to every country they don't want to go to.
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Stuk Top half 02 Sep 15 1.53pm | |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Sep 2015 1.40pm
Quote johnfirewall at 02 Sep 2015 1.36pm
Quote Stuk at 02 Sep 2015 1.29pm
Quote twist at 02 Sep 2015 1.18pm
What is the law/policy for immigrants who commit crime ? Are they deported ? Does it have to be a certain level of crime to be deported ? or are they banged up in prison with general population ? I am not suggesting that immigrants are more likely to commit crime than citizens, i am just asking if there is a policy to send them back if they do.
Or they fight you to the death in the case of one Angolan bloke they did get on a plane. Another defence was the right to a family life because they had a cat Of course the signifcance of the cat is disputed but if all you've got to do is shack up with someone for a couple of years, that's still pretty shaky grounds to remain in the country, not least if you're a criminal and would otherwise be locked up away from this 'partner' anyway. Edited by johnfirewall (02 Sep 2015 1.38pm) More disproven, as the cat wasn't even mentioned in the Judges summing up. The oddity here is more that its the other parties rights that are considered affected (its not so much the convicts right to a family life, but his partner - who if he was deported would be deemed to being punished unfairly, similarly their children). Odd as that sounds.
"In 2012-13, three foreign criminals convicted of murder or manslaughter won appeals on human rights grounds."
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