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 Sedlescombe  Sedlescombe 23 Jun 15 2.40pm |
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Quote sydtheeagle at 23 Jun 2015 2.19pm
Unreconstructed scum. This is not a question of where you stand on the political spectrum; filth doesn't vote. It's just filth. I disagree with almost nothing you have written. What annoys me is the attention he gets. He speaks for no one but himself; has no constituency but is treated as though he spoke for Islam of for Asian Britain in general. Its like interviewing a member of the KKK and treating them as a spokesman for the United States. That's why I made the link with the Daily Mail. Choudery wants to offend people and the DM - which I wouldn't use as toilet paper - wants to find things to offend it
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| sydtheeagle England 23 Jun 15 2.43pm |
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Quote Sedlescombe at 23 Jun 2015 2.40pm
I disagree with almost nothing you have written. I have to say, I was much happier when I had a yellow card and everyone here hated me. Could one of the mods oblige?
Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God. |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 23 Jun 15 2.51pm |
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Quote Sedlescombe at 23 Jun 2015 2.40pm
Quote sydtheeagle at 23 Jun 2015 2.19pm
Unreconstructed scum. This is not a question of where you stand on the political spectrum; filth doesn't vote. It's just filth. I disagree with almost nothing you have written. What annoys me is the attention he gets. He speaks for no one but himself; has no constituency but is treated as though he spoke for Islam of for Asian Britain in general. Its like interviewing a member of the KKK and treating them as a spokesman for the United States. That's why I made the link with the Daily Mail. Choudery wants to offend people and the DM - which I wouldn't use as toilet paper - wants to find things to offend it Both have an equally self fixated agenda. News corporations are in the business of selling copy, and ranty mad mullah types sell so much better to a paranoid borderline racist middle England moral outrage readership. I mean if they sought out a reasonable person, it would be less interesting, and less interesting means less play.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| legaleagle 23 Jun 15 11.28pm |
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Quote sydtheeagle at 23 Jun 2015 2.19pm
What Choudhary did is neither terrorism nor even incitement to terrorism. There's no case to answer here though righteous indignation, moral outrage and disgust are the appropriate responses of any sane person. That the policeman appears to have kept his cool is to his credit. I think in another thread I generally defended the rights of those unhappy in this country to remain here as it seems to me the fundamental right, even duty, of a citizen is to seek to change his country for the better where he finds a genuine wrong. So those unhappy here due, say, to racist abuse have every right to complain and remain simultaneously. Choudhary, however, does not fit that bill as he is simply creating outrage for destructive, rather than constructive purposes and I would ship him out without missing a heartbeat. Unreconstructed scum. This is not a question of where you stand on the political spectrum; filth doesn't vote. It's just filth.
I'm in general full agreement with your analysis and views about him, including the "unreconstructed scum" bit.He's very clever,he's a trained lawyer and is very astute it seems at staying just within the margins of the law generally.It has been speculated (I have no idea with what correctness) that it suits the authorities for him to be "out and about" since the security services have found his presence not unhelpful. But,I am curious.He was born here.Where precisely would you "ship him out" to and on what legal basis? Also, where would we draw the line between which highly objectionable British citizens born here should be "shipped out" and which should not?As a hypothetical example, what about a born here British citizen with a similar public profile who was a just as objectionable advocate of extreme right ring racism and race war etc and acted as if approvingly of the race-related murders,but was personally not able to be proven to have contravened the law? Ship them out? Where to? Edited by legaleagle (23 Jun 2015 11.31pm)
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| sydtheeagle England 24 Jun 15 7.05am |
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Quote legaleagle at 23 Jun 2015 11.28pm
But,I am curious.He was born here.Where precisely would you "ship him out" to and on what legal basis? Also, where would we draw the line between which highly objectionable British citizens born here should be "shipped out" and which should not?As a hypothetical example, what about a born here British citizen with a similar public profile who was a just as objectionable advocate of extreme right ring racism and race war etc and acted as if approvingly of the race-related murders,but was personally not able to be proven to have contravened the law? Ship them out? Where to? Edited by legaleagle (23 Jun 2015 11.31pm) If he was not born here then I assume his British citizenship results from his being naturalised at some point (that's an interesting word, isn't it?) So I would ship him back to his country of origin, stripping him of his citizenship in the purpose. I'm sure they wouldn't want him any more than us, but what the Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away. We can argue he's not our problem. The hypothetical example you give is just as simple if you eschew the layers of moral complexity most of us build around these situations. If he's a born an bred Englishman then he's our problem, unfortunate as that may be, and you can't ship him out because he's already reached his destination. But this reality, in a way, underlines why I would send Choudhary packing. We have a moral responsibility to deal with our own nut jobs. We don't have the bandwidth to deal with those of other countries. What you would you do with the recondite English-born racist allowed to stay here is another, and perhaps more challenging question. Unfortunately, in a free society the answer is to probably to let him get on with spreading his filth safe in the knowledge that he will be counterbalanced by the opinions of the vast majority of intelligent people. In reality, it is only through the presence of extremists who challenge the status quo that the status quo finds a sensible balance so his presence, in fact, has an unintended beneficial effect on society. How many right-wing extremists and racists in America, I wonder, will have woken up this week to find Dylan Roof staring back at them in the mirror and been sobered by the experience? I suspect at least some have disavowed their previous beliefs as a result of seeing innocent people dead and Roof in handcuffs. Of course, some will still be lionising him, but not all. The bad serves a purpose as well as the good.
Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God. |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 24 Jun 15 9.48am |
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You cannot deport someone from the UK without sufficient legal grounds. Its a moot point as he was born in Welling, in England, to parents of pakistani decent. In fact he was deported from Lebanon to the UK (and banned from entry into France). Very much 'our problem'. Its also very likely that several of the groups he's been a spokesperson of, were banned under anti-terrorist legislation, in a manner that would otherwise infringe the rights of free speech and expression (National Security laws suspend certain human rights).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| legaleagle 24 Jun 15 10.56pm |
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Quote sydtheeagle at 24 Jun 2015 7.05am
Quote legaleagle at 23 Jun 2015 11.28pm
But,I am curious.He was born here.Where precisely would you "ship him out" to and on what legal basis? Also, where would we draw the line between which highly objectionable British citizens born here should be "shipped out" and which should not?As a hypothetical example, what about a born here British citizen with a similar public profile who was a just as objectionable advocate of extreme right ring racism and race war etc and acted as if approvingly of the race-related murders,but was personally not able to be proven to have contravened the law? Ship them out? Where to? Edited by legaleagle (23 Jun 2015 11.31pm) If he was not born here then I assume his British citizenship results from his being naturalised at some point (that's an interesting word, isn't it?) So I would ship him back to his country of origin, stripping him of his citizenship in the purpose. I'm sure they wouldn't want him any more than us, but what the Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away. We can argue he's not our problem. The hypothetical example you give is just as simple if you eschew the layers of moral complexity most of us build around these situations. If he's a born an bred Englishman then he's our problem, unfortunate as that may be, and you can't ship him out because he's already reached his destination. But this reality, in a way, underlines why I would send Choudhary packing. We have a moral responsibility to deal with our own nut jobs. We don't have the bandwidth to deal with those of other countries. What you would you do with the recondite English-born racist allowed to stay here is another, and perhaps more challenging question. Unfortunately, in a free society the answer is to probably to let him get on with spreading his filth safe in the knowledge that he will be counterbalanced by the opinions of the vast majority of intelligent people. In reality, it is only through the presence of extremists who challenge the status quo that the status quo finds a sensible balance so his presence, in fact, has an unintended beneficial effect on society. How many right-wing extremists and racists in America, I wonder, will have woken up this week to find Dylan Roof staring back at them in the mirror and been sobered by the experience? I suspect at least some have disavowed their previous beliefs as a result of seeing innocent people dead and Roof in handcuffs. Of course, some will still be lionising him, but not all. The bad serves a purpose as well as the good.
I had assumed you already knew he was born here (as I stated in my post) when you wrote the post I was responding to, and that he was was not a naturalised citizen,so I was querying you on the basis I thought you were suggesting he be kicked out notwithstanding him being a British-born British citizen.Hence,I also raised the hypothetical example of another kind of "undesirable" born-here citizen. As I understand it,you can't strip someone of citizenship unless there are reasonable grounds for believing that the person is able to acquire another nationality. You can't leave someone with no right to any citizenship.UK law (Immigration Act 2014,though I'm not sure if fully implemented yet) now allows for people with only British citizenship to be deprived of citizenship on certain grounds (acting in a manner seriously prejudicial to the UK's vital interests) but not if there are no reasonable grounds for believing they are entitled to other citizenship. The Australian government have been grappling recently with proposed legislation about stripping citizenship (leading to no right to stay)for people engaging in "terrorist/terrorist support" acts domestically. But it will only apply to dual nationals,no suggestion so far as I'm aware it would strip a person who only has Australian nationality of citizenship and kick them out. Edited by legaleagle (24 Jun 2015 11.39pm)
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| PassDribbleShoot London 24 Jun 15 11.48pm |
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This man is a vile individual disliked by Muslims for his views. Unfortunately he is clever and knows the right things to say yet the Media continue to give him importance. He will trip up one day. Edited by PassDribbleShoot (25 Jun 2015 1.01pm)
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 25 Jun 15 8.02am |
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I have no doubt he knows exactly what flames he is fanning with his obviously divisive agenda, and if the media are dumb enough (we all know they are) to give him air time then he will continue to irritate where ever he can. However all this bollicks about him recruiting for ISIS etc etc, is just plain old posturing and tub thumping. He could fart and the security services would know about it before he did. Blokes a nuissance nothing more.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| elgrande bedford 25 Jun 15 12.09pm |
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Quote legaleagle at 23 Jun 2015 11.28pm
Quote sydtheeagle at 23 Jun 2015 2.19pm
What Choudhary did is neither terrorism nor even incitement to terrorism. There's no case to answer here though righteous indignation, moral outrage and disgust are the appropriate responses of any sane person. That the policeman appears to have kept his cool is to his credit. I think in another thread I generally defended the rights of those unhappy in this country to remain here as it seems to me the fundamental right, even duty, of a citizen is to seek to change his country for the better where he finds a genuine wrong. So those unhappy here due, say, to racist abuse have every right to complain and remain simultaneously. Choudhary, however, does not fit that bill as he is simply creating outrage for destructive, rather than constructive purposes and I would ship him out without missing a heartbeat. Unreconstructed scum. This is not a question of where you stand on the political spectrum; filth doesn't vote. It's just filth.
I'm in general full agreement with your analysis and views about him, including the "unreconstructed scum" bit.He's very clever,he's a trained lawyer and is very astute it seems at staying just within the margins of the law generally.It has been speculated (I have no idea with what correctness) that it suits the authorities for him to be "out and about" since the security services have found his presence not unhelpful. But,I am curious.He was born here.Where precisely would you "ship him out" to and on what legal basis? Also, where would we draw the line between which highly objectionable British citizens born here should be "shipped out" and which should not?As a hypothetical example, what about a born here British citizen with a similar public profile who was a just as objectionable advocate of extreme right ring racism and race war etc and acted as if approvingly of the race-related murders,but was personally not able to be proven to have contravened the law? Ship them out? Where to? Edited by legaleagle (23 Jun 2015 11.31pm) If he is a trained lawyer.....why is he on benefits.
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 25 Jun 15 12.30pm |
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Quote elgrande at 25 Jun 2015 12.09pm
Quote legaleagle at 23 Jun 2015 11.28pm
Quote sydtheeagle at 23 Jun 2015 2.19pm
What Choudhary did is neither terrorism nor even incitement to terrorism. There's no case to answer here though righteous indignation, moral outrage and disgust are the appropriate responses of any sane person. That the policeman appears to have kept his cool is to his credit. I think in another thread I generally defended the rights of those unhappy in this country to remain here as it seems to me the fundamental right, even duty, of a citizen is to seek to change his country for the better where he finds a genuine wrong. So those unhappy here due, say, to racist abuse have every right to complain and remain simultaneously. Choudhary, however, does not fit that bill as he is simply creating outrage for destructive, rather than constructive purposes and I would ship him out without missing a heartbeat. Unreconstructed scum. This is not a question of where you stand on the political spectrum; filth doesn't vote. It's just filth.
I'm in general full agreement with your analysis and views about him, including the "unreconstructed scum" bit.He's very clever,he's a trained lawyer and is very astute it seems at staying just within the margins of the law generally.It has been speculated (I have no idea with what correctness) that it suits the authorities for him to be "out and about" since the security services have found his presence not unhelpful. But,I am curious.He was born here.Where precisely would you "ship him out" to and on what legal basis? Also, where would we draw the line between which highly objectionable British citizens born here should be "shipped out" and which should not?As a hypothetical example, what about a born here British citizen with a similar public profile who was a just as objectionable advocate of extreme right ring racism and race war etc and acted as if approvingly of the race-related murders,but was personally not able to be proven to have contravened the law? Ship them out? Where to? Edited by legaleagle (23 Jun 2015 11.31pm) If he is a trained lawyer.....why is he on benefits. Out of work probably, not many people presumably want to be represented by one of the most reviled and hated men in the UK. Particually one that's almost certainly got the level of MI-5 Survelliance that can tell you what he will have for breakfast, the night before...
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| johnfirewall 25 Jun 15 12.58pm |
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We don't even get rid of criminals from outside the EU, but I'd be up for finding a new Australia so we can get rid of some of our own as well. Should have held on to Oz. They barely even let us in now.
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