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London town block fire
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 Jimenez  SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 18 Jun 17 12.04am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
No it shows that people would rather shut down people who point out uncomfortable truths rather than address those truths. The government were told about dangers in Tower blocks [Link] but chose to refuse it. Whether pointing this out makes me a lefty cund is irrelevant, it still shows the governments disregard for the people they are meant to represent.
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Attachment: Mapletree  Croydon 18 Jun 17 12.05am |
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I am very sad to see posters on this site genuinely turn against each other rather than knock-about debating This is a huge issue. There is no black and white. It is true that politics and self interest has played a part in the history leading to this disaster. But nobody set out to make it happen. I am deeply concerned that the area around the site of Grenfell Tower is mobilised and I think there is a real danger of rage and aggression. In my opinion very quick action whilst people were still numb would have helped the Government, waiting until the grief curve had hit aggression before going into the area was stupid. In the end we need to get to the bottom of this but it's not party political. People appear to have made mistakes but not on purpose. It may be that a particular philosophy about free market activity is part of the root cause and if so that will come out in the forthcoming reviews. In the meanwhile I too despise those that don't live in the area but are using the understandable anger to gain political traction. I see no difference between that and other forms of extremism and grooming. Edited by Mapletree (18 Jun 2017 12.07am)
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| Rachid Rachid Rachid 18 Jun 17 12.22am |
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The government's lack of support and response to the aftermath of this terrible tragedy has been discussed at length in respected areas of the media. Hopefully the public enquiry will establish the facts. One fire expert has suggested that the level of commercial competition has led to a "race to the bottom" with regard to standards of build, responsibility and oversight.
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| kenbarr Jackson Heights, Queens, New York ... 18 Jun 17 12.58am |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
I am very sad to see posters on this site genuinely turn against each other rather than knock-about debating This is a huge issue. There is no black and white. It is true that politics and self interest has played a part in the history leading to this disaster. But nobody set out to make it happen. I am deeply concerned that the area around the site of Grenfell Tower is mobilised and I think there is a real danger of rage and aggression. In my opinion very quick action whilst people were still numb would have helped the Government, waiting until the grief curve had hit aggression before going into the area was stupid. In the end we need to get to the bottom of this but it's not party political. People appear to have made mistakes but not on purpose. It may be that a particular philosophy about free market activity is part of the root cause and if so that will come out in the forthcoming reviews. In the meanwhile I too despise those that don't live in the area but are using the understandable anger to gain political traction. I see no difference between that and other forms of extremism and grooming. Edited by Mapletree (18 Jun 2017 12.07am) This.
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| Romford-Eagle Romford 18 Jun 17 1.42am |
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I'm pretty sure once the inquest is finished, that the findings will be that the building meets current building standards.
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| Stirlingsays 18 Jun 17 2.19am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
No it shows that people would rather shut down people who point out uncomfortable truths rather than address those truths. The government were told about dangers in Tower blocks [Link] but chose to refuse it. Whether pointing this out makes me a lefty cund is irrelevant, it still shows the governments disregard for the people they are meant to represent. I think that nearer to the truth is that people are rightly critical of people who aren't even handed and want to rush to judgement for political expediency. One thing is certain, misjudgements have been made. We will see what happens. This should never happen and it certainly should be as near to impossible in the UK as it could be.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 18 Jun 17 3.16am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
'responsible for the fire'? Responsible for regulations on fire containment. You can't actually stop a fire from happening....there can be no guarantee. But everything should be done to contain it...for obvious reasons... if it does occur. I'm saying it with hindsight it's true....but no sprinklers in high rises just seems unacceptable to me....As is just one stairwell....or the state fitting combustible materials. However this picture being painted of 'evil' people looking to turn a profit seems nothing short of stupid. Especially when they spent 10 million on a refit. We are not an evil society. However, what's clear is that there have been misjudgements that have caused catastrophic consequences and there has to be a price for that...whatever that price is I don't know.
I agree that we should look beyond 'evil' as a reason why this occurred. I'm sure there are a lot of councillors and politicians mortified that they played a role in letting this happen. But what is equally depressing is that it has taken this fire for us to have a discussion about social housing in this country. For me, this isn't necessarily an issue of an incident being politicised. It is about a political issue which was, for one reason or another, swept under the carpet, and which took an utter tragedy to be actually discussed. Because as devastating as it is for those who died, imagine how you must feel if you're living in a similar council estate anywhere in this country right now. Anger? Fear? Action needs to be taken, and has needed to have been taken for decades, but instead we have had successive governments ignoring it for political convenience. What frustrates me is that they have launched an enquiry. They really don't need one, the reports and investigations are all in the public domain and have repeatedly pointed out what needs to happen to prevent more tragedies such as this taking place. I really, really fear that 'launching an inquiry' is, just like Hillsborough, a smokescreen for them doing nothing.
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croydon proud  Any european country i fancy! 18 Jun 17 4.05am |
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Originally posted by Rachid Rachid Rachid
The government's lack of support and response to the aftermath of this terrible tragedy has been discussed at length in respected areas of the media. Hopefully the public enquiry will establish the facts. One fire expert has suggested that the level of commercial competition has led to a "race to the bottom" with regard to standards of build, responsibility and oversight. Its one of my favourites when describing this clueless rabble going from one calamity to another, and the way theyre taking the whole country(except the 5 per cent} , to the bottom and fast, but do have some important goals they aspire to, a bit of foxhunting ffs! Tallyhoo!
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| Stirlingsays 18 Jun 17 4.13am |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
The housing situation in this country is mostly definitely a problem that has been politically created. So many in this current generation have had the ladder pulled up. So little has been done over the years that the problem is acute and I don't think governments have been anything like as serious as they needed to be.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 18 Jun 17 4.17am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
The housing situation in this country is mostly definitely a problem that has been politically created. So many in this current generation have had the ladder pulled up. So little has been done over the years that the problem is acute and I don't think governments have been anything like as serious as they needed to be.
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 becky over the moon 18 Jun 17 6.22am |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
I am very sad to see posters on this site genuinely turn against each other rather than knock-about debating This is a huge issue. There is no black and white. It is true that politics and self interest has played a part in the history leading to this disaster. But nobody set out to make it happen. I am deeply concerned that the area around the site of Grenfell Tower is mobilised and I think there is a real danger of rage and aggression. In my opinion very quick action whilst people were still numb would have helped the Government, waiting until the grief curve had hit aggression before going into the area was stupid. In the end we need to get to the bottom of this but it's not party political. People appear to have made mistakes but not on purpose. It may be that a particular philosophy about free market activity is part of the root cause and if so that will come out in the forthcoming reviews. In the meanwhile I too despise those that don't live in the area but are using the understandable anger to gain political traction. I see no difference between that and other forms of extremism and grooming. Edited by Mapletree (18 Jun 2017 12.07am) Maybe, just maybe, they delayed going into the area on advice from the services themselves. Having a party political circus turning up in the midst of a major fire (which was still burning/being dampened down) and with the utter chaos at ground level whilst they dealt with the human tragedy that was unfolding, a bunch of politicos with all the attendant (additional) media would possibly not have been the most welcome addition to the day.
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| Mapletree Croydon 18 Jun 17 8.49am |
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Originally posted by becky
Maybe, just maybe, they delayed going into the area on advice from the services themselves. Having a party political circus turning up in the midst of a major fire (which was still burning/being dampened down) and with the utter chaos at ground level whilst they dealt with the human tragedy that was unfolding, a bunch of politicos with all the attendant (additional) media would possibly not have been the most welcome addition to the day. I was not making a political point. On a human level it would have been better. The Queen judged her visit well.
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