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Southern Rail Strike - right or wrong
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nickgusset  Shizzlehurst 14 Dec 16 2.47pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
It's like the 1970's never happened. Absolute bollocks. Hrolf why don't you think workers should have a voice?
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 Stuk Top half 14 Dec 16 2.48pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
What did Acas say? Well it's in every article on it, without a denial from that moron which he would be sure to have got in, were it the case. But you claim to have heard it on the radio, like you did with the other t*** yesterday despite me providing a link to a TV clip of him saying it in person.
Optimistic as ever |
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| Only 10 a year!! 14 Dec 16 2.52pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Mick Brown said he thought he was invited. The RMT even made a press release last night. Aslef should have said they wanted RMT in attendance. Both unions grievances. Mick Cash of the RMT clarified when interviewed earlier that the issue wasn't really about who opens and closes the doors but that southern won't guarantee that all trains won't have a trained guard (with all the skills listed by 7mins earlier in the thread) In the train crash in Watford a while back the driver was trapped in the cab. It was the guard that made the train safe, stopped people from getting off and reassured passengers. Imagine if he wasn't there. Can we at least get some clarity on this figure. Even on this thread it has ranged between 1:1000 to 1:1400. Not sure how much safer I would feel with one staff member looking after 500 or 1400 passengers. Where is the cut off line on safety? Surely if there is an issue it just needs an announcement over the tannoy? What else could one person do in relation to co-ordinating that many? By the way I have been enjoying the Thameslink train from Redhill to London Blackfriars during the strike rather than my usual (more convenient) train. Am I right thinking this does not have a guard?
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| npn Crowborough 14 Dec 16 2.55pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Mick Brown said he thought he was invited. The RMT even made a press release last night. Aslef should have said they wanted RMT in attendance. Both unions grievances. Mick Cash of the RMT clarified when interviewed earlier that the issue wasn't really about who opens and closes the doors but that southern won't guarantee that all trains won't have a trained guard (with all the skills listed by 7mins earlier in the thread) In the train crash in Watford a while back the driver was trapped in the cab. It was the guard that made the train safe, stopped people from getting off and reassured passengers. Imagine if he wasn't there. 1. if Brown thinks he was invited but he wasn't, that's a bit of a worry for how capable he is 2. have you ever tried to have a 3-way negotiation? It's far harder to reach an agreement than a 2-way one. RMT have a dispute with GTR - discuss it between you. ASLEF have a dispute with GTR - discuss it between you. Don't turn it into a debate between multiple parties, that's doomed to failure as they will likely each have different red lines 3. I have no idea what the 'safe' ration of passengers to crew is if, indeed, there is one. If we are saying 1:1800 is unsafe, are you saying 1:900 (with a guard) IS safe, or just safER? If that's the case, then what is the minimum safety threshold? I don't know, but I suspect nobody does - you can't trust the company because they will say what it takes to reduce staff and expense, and you can't trust the unions because they will say what it takes to secure jobs for their members indefinitely Edited by npn (14 Dec 2016 2.58pm)
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 Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 14 Dec 16 2.57pm |
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Originally posted by Only 10 a year!!
Can we at least get some clarity on this figure. Even on this thread it has ranged between 1:1000 to 1:1400. Not sure how much safer I would feel with one staff member looking after 500 or 1400 passengers. Where is the cut off line on safety? Surely if there is an issue it just needs an announcement over the tannoy? What else could one person do in relation to co-ordinating that many? By the way I have been enjoying the Thameslink train from Redhill to London Blackfriars during the strike rather than my usual (more convenient) train. Am I right thinking this does not have a guard?
You are indeed. Thameslink is all DOO, which was negotiated and agreed with Cash some years ago.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 14 Dec 16 3.00pm |
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Originally posted by Only 10 a year!!
Can we at least get some clarity on this figure. Even on this thread it has ranged between 1:1000 to 1:1400. Not sure how much safer I would feel with one staff member looking after 500 or 1400 passengers. Where is the cut off line on safety? Surely if there is an issue it just needs an announcement over the tannoy? What else could one person do in relation to co-ordinating that many? By the way I have been enjoying the Thameslink train from Redhill to London Blackfriars during the strike rather than my usual (more convenient) train. Am I right thinking this does not have a guard?
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 14 Dec 16 3.01pm |
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Originally posted by npn
1. if Brown thinks he was invited but he wasn't, that's a bit of a worry for how capable he is 2. have you ever tried to have a 3-way negotiation? It's far harder to reach an agreement than a 2-way one. RMT have a dispute with GTR - discuss it between you. ASLEF have a dispute with GTR - discuss it between you. Don't turn it into a debate between multiple parties, that's doomed to failure as they will likely each have different red lines 3. I have no idea what the 'safe' ration of passengers to crew is if, indeed, there is one. If we are saying 1:1800 is unsafe, are you saying 1:900 (with a guard) IS safe, or just safER? If that's the case, then what is the minimum safety threshold? I don't know, but I suspect nobody does - you can't trust the company because they will say what it takes to reduce staff and expense, and you can't trust the unions because they will say what it takes to secure jobs for their members indefinitely Edited by npn (14 Dec 2016 2.58pm)
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 14 Dec 16 3.06pm |
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Originally posted by Stuk
Well it's in every article on it, without a denial from that moron which he would be sure to have got in, were it the case. But you claim to have heard it on the radio, like you did with the other t*** yesterday despite me providing a link to a TV clip of him saying it in person. Are you accusing me of lying again. That's bad form.
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| 7mins In the bush 14 Dec 16 3.10pm |
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Safe?
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Attachment: | npn Crowborough 14 Dec 16 3.15pm |
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Originally posted by 7mins
Safe? I take your point completely. Are you saying, though, that any existing DOO line is inherently unsafe as well as any tube line with overground sections? Would a solution be to improve CCTV and/or lighting at stations, or would that still be unacceptable?
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 14 Dec 16 3.16pm |
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Originally posted by 7mins
Safe? Is that a sinclair c5 in that picture? I think passengers should take some blame for Working so far away from where they live.
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| Stuk Top half 14 Dec 16 3.16pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Are you accusing me of lying again. That's bad form. I just think you hear what you want to, not what's said. You find it hard enough to dissect written information.
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