Relegation 22/23

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Relegation 22/23

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fish mitten Chelmsford 08 Feb 23 9.49am
I suspect that we will have enough in the tank this season. We have had 3 very difficult games on the bounce and got 2 points. I suspect somewhere along the line, we will pick up another 3-4 wins and grind out a similar amount of draws. I'm pessimistic, but seem quite upbeat compared to some posts on this thread. What concerns me most is the continual kicking the can down the road. If we do stay up the squad will need major surgery next summer window. Probably 5 or so oven ready players in, ready to be starters in the team, or good options from the bench. That's where I have little faith that the board will invest the money needed for that. If we think one year renewals for the older players and relying on the youngsters will do us, I can see us going down in a spectacular fashion. The academy probably won't wield any significant dividends for at least 5 years. We will be lucky if 2 of the current youngsters out on loan become first team players. The squad needs a good rebuild and hopefully 5 years down the line, the academy will be able to contribute to the first team.
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fish mitten

Chelmsford 08 Feb 23 9.49am

I suspect that we will have enough in the tank this season. We have had 3 very difficult games on the bounce and got 2 points. I suspect somewhere along the line, we will pick up another 3-4 wins and grind out a similar amount of draws. I'm pessimistic, but seem quite upbeat compared to some posts on this thread.
What concerns me most is the continual kicking the can down the road. If we do stay up the squad will need major surgery next summer window. Probably 5 or so oven ready players in, ready to be starters in the team, or good options from the bench.

That's where I have little faith that the board will invest the money needed for that. If we think one year renewals for the older players and relying on the youngsters will do us, I can see us going down in a spectacular fashion. The academy probably won't wield any significant dividends for at least 5 years. We will be lucky if 2 of the current youngsters out on loan become first team players.

The squad needs a good rebuild and hopefully 5 years down the line, the academy will be able to contribute to the first team.

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CrazyBadger Ware 08 Feb 23 9.56am
Originally posted by The groover Originally posted by Vaibow This summer would be the optimal time to sell the club... a prem club with potential. Let the new buyers do what they like... Parish is barely keeping us afloat. Did you miss the bit where he and the others saved us? There are a lot of clubs that have died or are dying. Southend look like being next. Agree. Parish and Co have earned the right to run the club in whatever way they see fit, and I have faith that they/he will keep the club afloat and do whatever he can to stay in the prem. The problems are twofold, though. - Where's the required cash coming from to achieve this aim? and Parish's diminishing control over to parties who have earned the earned that right. SP has an issue.. he needs money to sustain the club, but the only way he seems able to get that money is by reducing the control he has at the club... The other stakeholders ; H+B and Textor, appear to be very quiet allowing SP control. I'm not convinced that the relationship these 3 groups have is allowing the club to be run properly. But as I said earlier, I have trust that SP is doing all he can for the sake of the club. Selling up and him leaving altogether worries me more. "It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"
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CrazyBadger

Ware 08 Feb 23 9.56am

Originally posted by The groover

Originally posted by Vaibow

This summer would be the optimal time to sell the club... a prem club with potential. Let the new buyers do what they like...

Parish is barely keeping us afloat.

Did you miss the bit where he and the others saved us?

There are a lot of clubs that have died or are dying. Southend look like being next.

Agree. Parish and Co have earned the right to run the club in whatever way they see fit, and I have faith that they/he will keep the club afloat and do whatever he can to stay in the prem.

The problems are twofold, though. - Where's the required cash coming from to achieve this aim? and Parish's diminishing control over to parties who have earned the earned that right.

SP has an issue.. he needs money to sustain the club, but the only way he seems able to get that money is by reducing the control he has at the club... The other stakeholders ; H+B and Textor, appear to be very quiet allowing SP control. I'm not convinced that the relationship these 3 groups have is allowing the club to be run properly.
But as I said earlier, I have trust that SP is doing all he can for the sake of the club. Selling up and him leaving altogether worries me more.

"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 08 Feb 23 10.10am
Originally posted by CrazyBadger Agree. Parish and Co have earned the right to run the club in whatever way they see fit, and I have faith that they/he will keep the club afloat and do whatever he can to stay in the prem. The problems are twofold, though. - Where's the required cash coming from to achieve this aim? and Parish's diminishing control over to parties who have earned the earned that right. SP has an issue.. he needs money to sustain the club, but the only way he seems able to get that money is by reducing the control he has at the club... The other stakeholders ; H+B and Textor, appear to be very quiet allowing SP control. I'm not convinced that the relationship these 3 groups have is allowing the club to be run properly. But as I said earlier, I have trust that SP is doing all he can for the sake of the club. Selling up and him leaving altogether worries me more. That seems to be the direction of travel. When Harris and Blitzer finally get to sell their shares, that will leave Parish exposed. It's only my perception, but I think John Textor sees Parish as a blocker to taking the club further. While I'm in no way trying to undermine his achievement in keeping Palace in the PL for a decade, potential investors may question why the club isn't in a healthier position financially, the lack of progress with stadium redevelopment, the high wage bill v income and the fact that in the PL Sustainability Table we are 5th from bottom. Parish is the Known. And while he stays I don't see much changing. Whether you view that as a good thing or bad depends on your risk appetite. Old, Ungifted and White
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NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 08 Feb 23 10.10am

Originally posted by CrazyBadger

Agree. Parish and Co have earned the right to run the club in whatever way they see fit, and I have faith that they/he will keep the club afloat and do whatever he can to stay in the prem.

The problems are twofold, though. - Where's the required cash coming from to achieve this aim? and Parish's diminishing control over to parties who have earned the earned that right.

SP has an issue.. he needs money to sustain the club, but the only way he seems able to get that money is by reducing the control he has at the club... The other stakeholders ; H+B and Textor, appear to be very quiet allowing SP control. I'm not convinced that the relationship these 3 groups have is allowing the club to be run properly.
But as I said earlier, I have trust that SP is doing all he can for the sake of the club. Selling up and him leaving altogether worries me more.

That seems to be the direction of travel.

When Harris and Blitzer finally get to sell their shares, that will leave Parish exposed. It's only my perception, but I think John Textor sees Parish as a blocker to taking the club further.

While I'm in no way trying to undermine his achievement in keeping Palace in the PL for a decade, potential investors may question why the club isn't in a healthier position financially, the lack of progress with stadium redevelopment, the high wage bill v income and the fact that in the PL Sustainability Table we are 5th from bottom.

Parish is the Known. And while he stays I don't see much changing. Whether you view that as a good thing or bad depends on your risk appetite.

Old, Ungifted and White

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Badger11 Beckenham 08 Feb 23 10.12am
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle I think that there is a stipulation that the ground must be used for football purposes and can't be sold for housing They said the same on the Charlton Fans forum as they have a protection order. Until one of their fans who is a bit of a planning expert pointed out that these things can be overturned he then gave specific examples (not football clubs) where this had already happened by Greenwich council. The playbook for doing this: 1. Buy a club in financial trouble. 2. Separate ownership of the club from the freehold e.g. you own the land but the club is a separate company like Charlton. 3. Undermine the club whilst loudly proclaiming your loyalty and passion. 4. Club goes into administration or nearly bust sell it to a straw man e.g. one of your mates in on the deal who plays the villain for a back hander. 5. Club finally goes bust. 6. Point out to local council that as the club is no longer in existence the protection order is worthless. Spread some money around. 7. Offer the re-born non league club Charlton (2023) a small piece of land out of town e.g. Ebbsfleet. This is a PR exercise. 8. Flog the ground to a developer and retire. Some of the more cynical Charlton fans believe that the puppet master is not Danish Dave the owner but the previous Belgium owner who still holds onto the ground and training ground and is a property developer. Danish Dave maybe the straw man more likely though he is the useful idiot who the Belgium saw coming. However it would not surprise me if Charlie Methven motives are suspect. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 08 Feb 23 10.12am

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

I think that there is a stipulation that the ground must be used for football purposes and can't be sold for housing

They said the same on the Charlton Fans forum as they have a protection order. Until one of their fans who is a bit of a planning expert pointed out that these things can be overturned he then gave specific examples (not football clubs) where this had already happened by Greenwich council.

The playbook for doing this:

1. Buy a club in financial trouble.
2. Separate ownership of the club from the freehold e.g. you own the land but the club is a separate company like Charlton.
3. Undermine the club whilst loudly proclaiming your loyalty and passion.
4. Club goes into administration or nearly bust sell it to a straw man e.g. one of your mates in on the deal who plays the villain for a back hander.
5. Club finally goes bust.
6. Point out to local council that as the club is no longer in existence the protection order is worthless. Spread some money around.
7. Offer the re-born non league club Charlton (2023) a small piece of land out of town e.g. Ebbsfleet. This is a PR exercise.
8. Flog the ground to a developer and retire.

Some of the more cynical Charlton fans believe that the puppet master is not Danish Dave the owner but the previous Belgium owner who still holds onto the ground and training ground and is a property developer.

Danish Dave maybe the straw man more likely though he is the useful idiot who the Belgium saw coming.

However it would not surprise me if Charlie Methven motives are suspect.

One more point

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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 08 Feb 23 10.30am
Originally posted by Badger11 They said the same on the Charlton Fans forum as they have a protection order. Until one of their fans who is a bit of a planning expert pointed out that these things can be overturned he then gave specific examples (not football clubs) where this had already happened by Greenwich council. The playbook for doing this: 1. Buy a club in financial trouble. 2. Separate ownership of the club from the freehold e.g. you own the land but the club is a separate company like Charlton. 3. Undermine the club whilst loudly proclaiming your loyalty and passion. 4. Club goes into administration or nearly bust sell it to a straw man e.g. one of your mates in on the deal who plays the villain for a back hander. 5. Club finally goes bust. 6. Point out to local council that as the club is no longer in existence the protection order is worthless. Spread some money around. 7. Offer the re-born non league club Charlton (2023) a small piece of land out of town e.g. Ebbsfleet. This is a PR exercise. 8. Flog the ground to a developer and retire. Some of the more cynical Charlton fans believe that the puppet master is not Danish Dave the owner but the previous Belgium owner who still holds onto the ground and training ground and is a property developer. Danish Dave maybe the straw man more likely though he is the useful idiot who the Belgium saw coming. However it would not surprise me if Charlie Methven motives are suspect. I can't bring myself to wish Charlton or their fans well. But I think this is another example of where the EPL Fit and Proper ownership test is failing, and the need for an independent Regulator comes into play. As we saw with Goldberg and Jordan at Palace, not having ownership of the clubs main assets, the stadium and training facility, is not a successful model. What Charlie Methven's consortium is buying is the players contracts. And one of their best, if not their very best player, is not even owned by the club ! Old, Ungifted and White
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NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 08 Feb 23 10.30am

Originally posted by Badger11

The playbook for doing this:

Danish Dave maybe the straw man more likely though he is the useful idiot who the Belgium saw coming.

However it would not surprise me if Charlie Methven motives are suspect.

I can't bring myself to wish Charlton or their fans well.

But I think this is another example of where the EPL Fit and Proper ownership test is failing, and the need for an independent Regulator comes into play.

As we saw with Goldberg and Jordan at Palace, not having ownership of the clubs main assets, the stadium and training facility, is not a successful model.

What Charlie Methven's consortium is buying is the players contracts. And one of their best, if not their very best player, is not even owned by the club !

Old, Ungifted and White

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Den1923 08 Feb 23 11.19am
Originally posted by Badger11 They said the same on the Charlton Fans forum as they have a protection order. Until one of their fans who is a bit of a planning expert pointed out that these things can be overturned he then gave specific examples (not football clubs) where this had already happened by Greenwich council. The playbook for doing this: 1. Buy a club in financial trouble. 2. Separate ownership of the club from the freehold e.g. you own the land but the club is a separate company like Charlton. 3. Undermine the club whilst loudly proclaiming your loyalty and passion. 4. Club goes into administration or nearly bust sell it to a straw man e.g. one of your mates in on the deal who plays the villain for a back hander. 5. Club finally goes bust. 6. Point out to local council that as the club is no longer in existence the protection order is worthless. Spread some money around. 7. Offer the re-born non league club Charlton (2023) a small piece of land out of town e.g. Ebbsfleet. This is a PR exercise. 8. Flog the ground to a developer and retire. Some of the more cynical Charlton fans believe that the puppet master is not Danish Dave the owner but the previous Belgium owner who still holds onto the ground and training ground and is a property developer. Danish Dave maybe the straw man more likely though he is the useful idiot who the Belgium saw coming. However it would not surprise me if Charlie Methven motives are suspect.
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Den1923

08 Feb 23 11.19am

Originally posted by Badger11

The playbook for doing this:

1. Buy a club in financial trouble.
2. Separate ownership of the club from the freehold e.g. you own the land but the club is a separate company like Charlton.
3. Undermine the club whilst loudly proclaiming your loyalty and passion.
4. Club goes into administration or nearly bust sell it to a straw man e.g. one of your mates in on the deal who plays the villain for a back hander.
5. Club finally goes bust.
6. Point out to local council that as the club is no longer in existence the protection order is worthless. Spread some money around.
7. Offer the re-born non league club Charlton (2023) a small piece of land out of town e.g. Ebbsfleet. This is a PR exercise.
8. Flog the ground to a developer and retire.

Danish Dave maybe the straw man more likely though he is the useful idiot who the Belgium saw coming.

However it would not surprise me if Charlie Methven motives are suspect.

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Den1923 08 Feb 23 11.21am
Thats already happened with Crystal Palace Selhurst Park Ltd, this company actually owns the stadium and has the ground secured on a debenture through a company in Luxembourg!
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Den1923

08 Feb 23 11.21am

Thats already happened with Crystal Palace Selhurst Park Ltd, this company actually owns the stadium and has the ground secured on a debenture through a company in Luxembourg!

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Spiderman Horsham 08 Feb 23 3.57pm
Originally posted by Willo We are reliant on them to make a difference.If they do not make positive contributions, I believe we could well be relegated. Everton and Leeds with new managers could get that 'Bounce', Nottm For have won 3 of their last 4 PL games and have not been defeated in their last 7 home PL games.We have only won 1 of our last 8 PL games and our next few fixtures are certainly challenging. I do not envisage, Wolves, W.Ham and Leicester being relegated. Edited by Willo (06 Feb 2023 7.43pm) Who have we played in those 8 games? Let’s put into some context: Spurs, Chelsea, Newcastle, Man Utd x2, Bournemouth (win) Fulham ( went down to 10 then 9 and the 2nd goal could easily have been ruled out) and Forest ( missed penalty but poor display). Who have the teams below us got to play?
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Spiderman

Horsham 08 Feb 23 3.57pm

Originally posted by Willo

We are reliant on them to make a difference.If they do not make positive contributions, I believe we could well be relegated.

Everton and Leeds with new managers could get that 'Bounce', Nottm For have won 3 of their last 4 PL games and have not been defeated in their last 7 home PL games.We have only won 1 of our last 8 PL games and our next few fixtures are certainly challenging.
I do not envisage, Wolves, W.Ham and Leicester being relegated.

Edited by Willo (06 Feb 2023 7.43pm)

Who have we played in those 8 games? Let’s put into some context:
Spurs, Chelsea, Newcastle, Man Utd x2, Bournemouth (win) Fulham ( went down to 10 then 9 and the 2nd goal could easily have been ruled out) and Forest ( missed penalty but poor display).
Who have the teams below us got to play?

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Spiderman Horsham 08 Feb 23 4.01pm
Originally posted by Lanzo-Ad Yes, i wonder too, maybe he deserved a few more games. The players didn’t want him. Watch Where Eagles Dare, Delaney appeared to e the spokesman. I went to training session in the summer FDB took over, he spent the whole session putting 25 yard free kicks into the top corner! Brilliant if you area player but not exactly what is expected of a manager
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Spiderman

Horsham 08 Feb 23 4.01pm

Originally posted by Lanzo-Ad

Yes, i wonder too, maybe he deserved a few more games.

The players didn’t want him. Watch Where Eagles Dare, Delaney appeared to e the spokesman.
I went to training session in the summer FDB took over, he spent the whole session putting 25 yard free kicks into the top corner! Brilliant if you area player but not exactly what is expected of a manager

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Spiderman Horsham 08 Feb 23 4.06pm
Originally posted by NEILLO That seems to be the direction of travel. When Harris and Blitzer finally get to sell their shares, that will leave Parish exposed. It's only my perception, but I think John Textor sees Parish as a blocker to taking the club further. While I'm in no way trying to undermine his achievement in keeping Palace in the PL for a decade, potential investors may question why the club isn't in a healthier position financially, the lack of progress with stadium redevelopment, the high wage bill v income and the fact that in the PL Sustainability Table we are 5th from bottom. Parish is the Known. And while he stays I don't see much changing. Whether you view that as a good thing or bad depends on your risk appetite. I totally agree
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Spiderman

Horsham 08 Feb 23 4.06pm

Originally posted by NEILLO

That seems to be the direction of travel.

When Harris and Blitzer finally get to sell their shares, that will leave Parish exposed. It's only my perception, but I think John Textor sees Parish as a blocker to taking the club further.

Parish is the Known. And while he stays I don't see much changing. Whether you view that as a good thing or bad depends on your risk appetite.

I totally agree

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 08 Feb 23 4.08pm
Originally posted by Spiderman Who have we played in those 8 games? Let’s put into some context: Spurs, Chelsea, Newcastle, Man Utd x2, Bournemouth (win) Fulham ( went down to 10 then 9 and the 2nd goal could easily have been ruled out) and Forest ( missed penalty but poor display). Who have the teams below us got to play? The context is that we have only won 1 of our last 10 games, when one includes the League Cup and FA Cup encounters and of course the FA Cup defeat was at home to struggling Southampton.Our only win was at lowly Bournemouth. An abysmal set of results and some challenging games to come. Edited by Willo (08 Feb 2023 4.14pm)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 08 Feb 23 4.08pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

The context is that we have only won 1 of our last 10 games, when one includes the League Cup and FA Cup encounters and of course the FA Cup defeat was at home to struggling Southampton.Our only win was at lowly Bournemouth. An abysmal set of results and some challenging games to come.

Edited by Willo (08 Feb 2023 4.14pm)

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The groover Danbury 08 Feb 23 4.23pm
Originally posted by Willo The context is that we have only won 1 of our last 10 games, when one includes the League Cup and FA Cup encounters and of course the FA Cup defeat was at home to struggling Southampton.Our only win was at lowly Bournemouth. An abysmal set of results and some challenging games to come. Edited by Willo (08 Feb 2023 4.14pm) We beat west ham as well. To put things in perspective yes, we have had a dreadful run. In our last 10 league games we got 8 points. If we repeat that we would have 32 points with 7 games left. Meaning we would need 5/6 points from those 7 games. If we can't get to 38 points then we deserve to go down.
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The groover

Danbury 08 Feb 23 4.23pm

Originally posted by Willo

Edited by Willo (08 Feb 2023 4.14pm)

We beat west ham as well.

To put things in perspective yes, we have had a dreadful run. In our last 10 league games we got 8 points. If we repeat that we would have 32 points with 7 games left. Meaning we would need 5/6 points from those 7 games.

If we can't get to 38 points then we deserve to go down.

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