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Horrific Scenes In Paris
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bubble wrap  Carparks in South East London 19 Nov 15 10.09am |
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Quote nickgusset at 19 Nov 2015 10.04am
Quote bubble wrap at 19 Nov 2015 9.38am
Nobody in this country should be able to cover their faces in public places.
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| Hoof Hearted 19 Nov 15 11.42am | |
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Quote Mr Palaceman at 18 Nov 2015 5.10pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 18 Nov 2015 3.52pm
Quote Mr Palaceman at 18 Nov 2015 3.45pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 17 Nov 2015 4.07pm
Quote nickgusset at 17 Nov 2015 4.00pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 17 Nov 2015 3.35pm
Quote Southampton_Eagle at 17 Nov 2015 11.32am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 17 Nov 2015 9.11am
Quote Southampton_Eagle at 16 Nov 2015 11.25am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 16 Nov 2015 10.38am
Quote serial thriller at 14 Nov 2015 2.30pm
But I'll end this post with one final remark. The rules on this forum state that any racist ethnically objectionable material will be punished. It is my belief that racism, and indeed all forms of prejudice, stem from ignorance, and what I hope I have proved is that from the almost exclusive ignorance of Hoof's post, conclusions have been reached which at best are ethnically objectionable (Not just a few religious zealots or fundamentalists but with Islam itself... the whole ideology!) and at worst advocating genocide (we need to bring in the experts to destroy the nest!). I'd like to see the mods adhere to the rules of their own forum and warn Hoof that such views aren't welcome on here, yet particularly considering one mod has actively supported his beliefs, I'd be surprised if any of them had the guts to do so.
My reaction......... how childish and pathetic.... trying to get me banned because of my hard line views that oppose his liberal views and calling me racist AGAIN. Not content with that.... comparing my use of an analogy to that of the Nazi propaganda spokesman Goebbels speech on the final solution! Serial.... you and others on here need to stop playing the racist card and revert to trying to convince us your arguments are superior rather than underhand tactics to try and stifle our views.
Your opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else even though you seem to think it is. I avoided this thread all weekend because emotions were high. I'm not surprised to see the chest beating bravado of the usual suspects, those of, shall we say, an older generation with ingrained prejudices. Hol clusterf*ck thread at it's finest.
Get a life.
Anyways... from your tone it sounds like you should take a chill pill. Meanwhile, my offending post continues to get accolades from the free thinkers. Annoying isn't it? I still think your 'intern all muslims' remark is ridiculous. But you are entitled to that view, just as I am mine.
It would be impractical to intern them all anyway. My main thrust was to endorse the right of the government/MI6 to monitor all forms of communication to identify those who wish us harm. I have no problem with you airing your views nick...... none at all mate. Regards. That's not really a clarification, that is a move away from your original post but fair enough. The thing is the circumstances you describe in your clarification, you would not and don't need to "intern" people for. Preaching hate, plotting terrorist acts, inciting others to commit terrorist acts are all criminal offences and you wouldn't intern someone for that, you would jail them. The part of your post that stood out for me was that it was aimed at a particular religious group only. As I said in a previous post that you ignored/missed, discrimination on the basis of religion is a criminal offence in this country, as would be inciting others to discriminate on the basis of religious belief. How many people support your post or not and there are quite a few on both sides, matters not. What you were suggesting is against the law. In regards to your argument that government and security agencies should be allowed to invade whoever's personal freedom as a matter of course, is not a silly argument. Striking a balance between freedom and security is always difficult, especially in these times of extremism and technology. While I will always support any government that strives to keep the people safe, I don't not trust just any goverment not to use that power in order to control. For me that is just as great a threat to democracy and our general way of life as a potential attack. The ability for the people to engage in free speech and to vote privately, is a fundamental right and an essential corners stone of any true democracy.
However right now it only appears to be Islam that is killing people. If any other religion starts killing I will be on their case to. ...... oh and Atheists had better not start any terror campaigns!!! Fair enough, your not a fan of any religion, your not alone in that, I can respect that point of view. But you then say it ".. only appears to be Islam that is killing people". Islam can't kill anyone or anything, it's a notion, an idea, a religion or a way of life for some. What kills people is when someone takes an idea or a notion and uses it to kill or oppress someone else. Humans don't need the excuse of religion to kill for a notion. There are some extremely fanatical secularists, Christians, Buddhists (yes, them too), Nazis, Communists, Fascists I could go on. If you look at Nazis and Communists only, people that practised those two ideologies have killed people in the hundreds of millions, if you look at Hitler, Stalin and Mao. Nothing to do with religion. IMO humble opinion, I think that the main problem that those who oppose your posts have is that you show a level of discrimination that alarms people. They see echoes of what they believe is an extreme view, in order to combat what are without doubt the extreme views of those that attack our freedoms. Incidentally, this is the first post of mine that you have directly replied to, even though many others have replied on your behalf. Christians would say that Christmas must be coming. Don't expect a present...
I oppose facism and communism etc etc.... all killings and acts of terrorism on any scale or for any reason is clearly not on but sh1t happens. However... right now... those people calling themselves ISIS, ISIL, Jihadists, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram and any other similar group are all guided by Islamic teachings and purport to be acting in accordance with the Quaran's guidance to kill all infidels. (I know most muslims say this is not a literal instruction but many believe it to be true). I don't happen to agree that this situation will go away with a handshake and diplomacy when you have people prepared to blow themselves up for their mistaken beliefs. I respect your views, but I am not about to change mine because you or Jeremy Corbyn don't want conflict. Corbyn and anyone else with similar views show a naivety that alarms me quite frankly. But hey ho.... Lets agree to disagree on this matter.
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  Hrolf The Ganger 19 Nov 15 11.45am |
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Quote nickgusset at 18 Nov 2015 10.32pm
Quote Lyons550 at 17 Nov 2015 8.25am
Quote nickgusset at 16 Nov 2015 9.40pm
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 19 Nov 15 11.57am |
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Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 19 Nov 2015 11.45am
Quote nickgusset at 18 Nov 2015 10.32pm
Quote Lyons550 at 17 Nov 2015 8.25am
Quote nickgusset at 16 Nov 2015 9.40pm
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My point is therethere are plenty of Muslims opposing ISIS, something Lyons seems to say isn't happening. It doesn't suit (in my opinion) newspaper agenda to cover it.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 19 Nov 15 12.06pm |
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Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 19 Nov 2015 11.45am
Quote nickgusset at 18 Nov 2015 10.32pm
Quote Lyons550 at 17 Nov 2015 8.25am
Quote nickgusset at 16 Nov 2015 9.40pm
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I have an issue with IS primarily because they are killing almost indiscriminately but in terms of Paris a certain 'well what did you think would happen if you started bombing IS' applies. We kill them, they kill ours and so on - They, like other groups, were always going try to respond in kind (that's not to say I agree with IS, but that sometimes you need to objectively remember its 'a war on terror', inevitably the enemy is going to fight and kill in kind. I don't have an issue with Islamic causes, even anti-western ones, that are not killing people or even violent ones in their home nations (which arguably are often totalitarian regimes). I think it gets more complicated when you look at a political picture, objectively. Al-Qaeda and the US issue, really stems from the US relationship with propping up a very corrupt Saudi regime, that is a brutal and oppressive regime, that would never respond to political change without being forced. The west makes a big issue out of IS, because its a threat to their interests, and now that we've become engaged in conflict, they're a threat to our people as well as allies and interests. But you could arguably point at a number of countries which 'get a pass' on being brutal and oppressive, because of our interests. These groups don't evolve and occur in a vaccum or because 'Muslims are violent' - Look at the countries of the Middle East; violence is inseperable from political action. Peaceful protest in places like Saudi, Iran, Jordan, Yemin etc are met with violence and oppression. Islamic Jyhad in Egypt was originally a non-violent organisation. Its leaders were rounded up tortured, and imprisoned or executed. Its not really surprising that it then became an armed struggle.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 19 Nov 15 12.10pm |
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Quote nickgusset at 19 Nov 2015 11.57am
Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 19 Nov 2015 11.45am
Quote nickgusset at 18 Nov 2015 10.32pm
Quote Lyons550 at 17 Nov 2015 8.25am
Quote nickgusset at 16 Nov 2015 9.40pm
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My point is therethere are plenty of Muslims opposing ISIS, something Lyons seems to say isn't happening. It doesn't suit (in my opinion) newspaper agenda to cover it. Actually its quite prevalent in the news, if one chooses to think. IS in Syria is engaged in conflict with the Syrian Army (80% Muslim), Kurds (90% Muslim) and assorted Rebel factions (80% Muslim). They're also fighting in Iraq, where the forces opposing them that we're supporting are Kurds, Shia Militias and the Iraq Army, all of which are almost exclusively Muslim. But people don't want to let that get in the way of their 'hate rage'. Do they really think the US, UK and France are fighting IS alone from the air? They only see what suits their opinion.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 19 Nov 15 12.15pm |
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Quote Willo at 18 Nov 2015 3.58pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 18 Nov 2015 3.48pm
I suspect that last part might not be necessary, as I don't believe that Police firearms are burst or automatic capable, The two main weapons carried by the Police are the G-36C and AR15 Defender. Both are high velocity and are capable weapons but cannot be fired automatically. They are semi automatic in that they will fire and reload another round in the chamber as fast as your finger can pump the trigger. And the most commonly used weapon especially in the Met Police (Carbine wise) is the MP5SF (SF standing for Single Fire) So it is still very possible to Burst fire into anything that takes your fancy. Special Forces use the fully automatic version of the same Carbine.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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 Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 19 Nov 15 12.28pm |
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Quote dannyh at 19 Nov 2015 12.15pm
Quote Willo at 18 Nov 2015 3.58pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 18 Nov 2015 3.48pm
I suspect that last part might not be necessary, as I don't believe that Police firearms are burst or automatic capable, The two main weapons carried by the Police are the G-36C and AR15 Defender. Both are high velocity and are capable weapons but cannot be fired automatically. They are semi automatic in that they will fire and reload another round in the chamber as fast as your finger can pump the trigger. And the most commonly used weapon especially in the Met Police (Carbine wise) is the MP5SF (SF standing for Single Fire) So it is still very possible to Burst fire into anything that takes your fancy. Special Forces use the fully automatic version of the same Carbine.
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Kermit8  Hevon 19 Nov 15 12.31pm |
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Quote Cucking Funt at 19 Nov 2015 12.28pm
Quote dannyh at 19 Nov 2015 12.15pm
Quote Willo at 18 Nov 2015 3.58pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 18 Nov 2015 3.48pm
I suspect that last part might not be necessary, as I don't believe that Police firearms are burst or automatic capable, The two main weapons carried by the Police are the G-36C and AR15 Defender. Both are high velocity and are capable weapons but cannot be fired automatically. They are semi automatic in that they will fire and reload another round in the chamber as fast as your finger can pump the trigger. And the most commonly used weapon especially in the Met Police (Carbine wise) is the MP5SF (SF standing for Single Fire) So it is still very possible to Burst fire into anything that takes your fancy. Special Forces use the fully automatic version of the same Carbine.
Big chest and massive boobs |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 19 Nov 15 12.47pm |
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Quote dannyh at 19 Nov 2015 12.15pm
Quote Willo at 18 Nov 2015 3.58pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 18 Nov 2015 3.48pm
I suspect that last part might not be necessary, as I don't believe that Police firearms are burst or automatic capable, The two main weapons carried by the Police are the G-36C and AR15 Defender. Both are high velocity and are capable weapons but cannot be fired automatically. They are semi automatic in that they will fire and reload another round in the chamber as fast as your finger can pump the trigger. And the most commonly used weapon especially in the Met Police (Carbine wise) is the MP5SF (SF standing for Single Fire) So it is still very possible to Burst fire into anything that takes your fancy. Special Forces use the fully automatic version of the same Carbine. The pathologist of the Iranian Embassy siege said on interview that 'he gave up counting at 125' in reference to the number of rounds he had removed from the corpse of the 4th hostage taker killed (I believe they used earlier versions of the MP5 for Hostage and Rescue, because it has virtually no recoil, and the suppressed version sound production is limited almost entirely to sound of the chambering and slide.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 19 Nov 15 1.00pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 Nov 2015 12.10pm
Quote nickgusset at 19 Nov 2015 11.57am
Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 19 Nov 2015 11.45am
Quote nickgusset at 18 Nov 2015 10.32pm
Quote Lyons550 at 17 Nov 2015 8.25am
Quote nickgusset at 16 Nov 2015 9.40pm
.
My point is therethere are plenty of Muslims opposing ISIS, something Lyons seems to say isn't happening. It doesn't suit (in my opinion) newspaper agenda to cover it. Actually its quite prevalent in the news, if one chooses to think. IS in Syria is engaged in conflict with the Syrian Army (80% Muslim), Kurds (90% Muslim) and assorted Rebel factions (80% Muslim). They're also fighting in Iraq, where the forces opposing them that we're supporting are Kurds, Shia Militias and the Iraq Army, all of which are almost exclusively Muslim. But people don't want to let that get in the way of their 'hate rage'. Do they really think the US, UK and France are fighting IS alone from the air? They only see what suits their opinion.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 19 Nov 15 1.16pm |
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Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 19 Nov 2015 1.00pmI almost entirely agree with your last two posts.
In practice however, I feel that an ideological/philosophical approach will not tackle the immediate danger to the public. No doubt most Muslims around the world oppose ISIL but all ISIL sympathisers are almost certainly Muslims. An old addage I know but still true. The Muslim community will be under scrutiny and that is a symptom of the times. I don't think you can actually realistically prevent the danger to the public. Its the classic problem when you 'declare war on an idea', you ultimately are engaged in a conflict you can't actually win. In terms of realism, IS and Al-Qaeda aren't enemies with a logicistal basis you can defeat - They have constructed themselves as ideas. During the last decade the operation capacity of Al-Qaeda was destroyed, but that had no impact on Islamist Terrorist groups, who flourished with the 'Al-Qaeda' Brand. The Taliban are still in existence in Afghanistan and have only increased in power and capacity since occupation. The appeal of these groups will be with us for generations, until the underlying resentments which they feed into are resolved. After decades of the cold war, there still exists numerous far left wing parties in the UK, and there always will be. Like wise, there will always be Islamists among Muslims, Christian fundermentalists among Christians. The only thing that can really ever be done, is to reduce the appeal, by countering the issues that create anger and frustration against society in those communities, and provide an outlet expression of disatistisfaction and alienation. As far back as I can remember British people were leaving the UK to fight abroad for 'ideas they believed in' (Esp people on the far right and left wings). My old form tutor was a nurse out in Nicaragua
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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