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taylors lovechild 16 Mar 20 12.49pm
What seems apparent is that as this is a new virus there are few certainties, with scientists generally saying it is too early to confirm whether warmer weather will get rid of it or slow it, or whether people will be immune once they've had it. I imagine these uncertainties must make it extremely hard to make decisions. If the UK did go down the herd immunity route and they got it wrong it could result in thousands of deaths that could possibly have been avoided. Whatever happens I hope that from the largest corporations to the man on the street people try and make decisions about more than just their own selfish interests, be it handing over profits to support health services to lending your neighbour a toilet roll.
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taylors lovechild

16 Mar 20 12.49pm

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What seems apparent is that as this is a new virus there are few certainties, with scientists generally saying it is too early to confirm whether warmer weather will get rid of it or slow it, or whether people will be immune once they've had it. I imagine these uncertainties must make it extremely hard to make decisions. If the UK did go down the herd immunity route and they got it wrong it could result in thousands of deaths that could possibly have been avoided. Whatever happens I hope that from the largest corporations to the man on the street people try and make decisions about more than just their own selfish interests, be it handing over profits to support health services to lending your neighbour a toilet roll.

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Stirlingsays 16 Mar 20 1.00pm
Hancock said, in an answer to a similar question, that it's hard to become reinfected once you've been through it. But you hear different.....Still, I suspect that like most flu type illnesses the body develops antibodies. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

16 Mar 20 1.00pm

Hancock said, in an answer to a similar question, that it's hard to become reinfected once you've been through it.

But you hear different.....Still, I suspect that like most flu type illnesses the body develops antibodies.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Midlands Eagle 16 Mar 20 1.02pm
Originally posted by Matov Johnson is luckier than most politicians in that he is perhaps the most secure Western leader at the moment. 80 majority and a fixed-term Parliament act. He can afford to take the hit by not pandering to the hysteria. Just think. If Corbyn's labour had won last year's General Election he would have had to govern from his front room and hold cabinet meetings over Skype
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Midlands Eagle

16 Mar 20 1.02pm

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Originally posted by Matov

Johnson is luckier than most politicians in that he is perhaps the most secure Western leader at the moment. 80 majority and a fixed-term Parliament act. He can afford to take the hit by not pandering to the hysteria.

Just think. If Corbyn's labour had won last year's General Election he would have had to govern from his front room and hold cabinet meetings over Skype

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Matov 16 Mar 20 1.02pm
Originally posted by taylors lovechild What seems apparent is that as this is a new virus there are few certainties, with scientists generally saying it is too early to confirm whether warmer weather will get rid of it or slow it, or whether people will be immune once they've had it. I imagine these uncertainties must make it extremely hard to make decisions. If the UK did go down the herd immunity route and they got it wrong it could result in thousands of deaths that could possibly have been avoided. Herd immunity is a thing. It is how humanity functions and copes with disease. COVID-19 is not actually that much of a ferocious virus. It kills pretty much how it is meant to i.e the old and infirm. In Darwinian terms, it actually serves a purpose. Johnsons strategy, as advised by HMG's top scientists, is a perfectly rational one. Isolating at this stage is simply ludicrous for over 95% of us. Really the advice should be for at risk groups to isolate immediately and for them to be supported in doing that whilst the rest of us just get on with everyday life and when we fall ill, tuck up in bed for a week or so. But you need it to spread. That is the Elephant in the Room here that no politician really has the courage to admit to. Lockdowns are the political version of panic buying loo-rolls. That need to be seen to do something, rather than just accepting that this is how life is. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

16 Mar 20 1.02pm

Originally posted by taylors lovechild

Herd immunity is a thing. It is how humanity functions and copes with disease. COVID-19 is not actually that much of a ferocious virus. It kills pretty much how it is meant to i.e the old and infirm. In Darwinian terms, it actually serves a purpose.

Johnsons strategy, as advised by HMG's top scientists, is a perfectly rational one. Isolating at this stage is simply ludicrous for over 95% of us.

Really the advice should be for at risk groups to isolate immediately and for them to be supported in doing that whilst the rest of us just get on with everyday life and when we fall ill, tuck up in bed for a week or so.

But you need it to spread. That is the Elephant in the Room here that no politician really has the courage to admit to.

Lockdowns are the political version of panic buying loo-rolls. That need to be seen to do something, rather than just accepting that this is how life is.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 16 Mar 20 1.09pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle Just think. If Corbyn's labour had won last year's General Election he would have had to govern from his front room and hold cabinet meetings over Skype At least he would govern though, think Boris was away on holiday for the start of the crisis, giving it 5 weeks head start on the rest of europe to spread ,10 years to plan such an episode on his partys hands, in boris we trust!
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 16 Mar 20 1.09pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Just think. If Corbyn's labour had won last year's General Election he would have had to govern from his front room and hold cabinet meetings over Skype

At least he would govern though, think Boris was away on holiday for the start of the crisis, giving it 5 weeks head start on the rest of europe to spread ,10 years to plan such an episode on his partys hands, in boris we trust!

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Stirlingsays 16 Mar 20 1.11pm
Originally posted by Matov Herd immunity is a thing. It is how humanity functions and copes with disease. COVID-19 is not actually that much of a ferocious virus. It kills pretty much how it is meant to i.e the old and infirm. In Darwinian terms, it actually serves a purpose. Johnsons strategy, as advised by HMG's top scientists, is a perfectly rational one. Isolating at this stage is simply ludicrous for over 95% of us. Really the advice should be for at risk groups to isolate immediately and for them to be supported in doing that whilst the rest of us just get on with everyday life and when we fall ill, tuck up in bed for a week or so. But you need it to spread. That is the Elephant in the Room here that no politician really has the courage to admit to. Lockdowns are the political version of panic buying loo-rolls. That need to be seen to do something, rather than just accepting that this is how life is. So this 'herd immunity' how well did that work with smallpox then?.......measles and all of the rest of the viruses before vaccines for them? Personally I think the Chinese have the best strategy....but as stated we will see. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

16 Mar 20 1.11pm

Originally posted by Matov

Johnsons strategy, as advised by HMG's top scientists, is a perfectly rational one. Isolating at this stage is simply ludicrous for over 95% of us.

But you need it to spread. That is the Elephant in the Room here that no politician really has the courage to admit to.

Lockdowns are the political version of panic buying loo-rolls. That need to be seen to do something, rather than just accepting that this is how life is.

So this 'herd immunity' how well did that work with smallpox then?.......measles and all of the rest of the viruses before vaccines for them?

Personally I think the Chinese have the best strategy....but as stated we will see.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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taylors lovechild 16 Mar 20 1.12pm
Originally posted by Matov Herd immunity is a thing. It is how humanity functions and copes with disease. COVID-19 is not actually that much of a ferocious virus. It kills pretty much how it is meant to i.e the old and infirm. In Darwinian terms, it actually serves a purpose. Johnsons strategy, as advised by HMG's top scientists, is a perfectly rational one. Isolating at this stage is simply ludicrous for over 95% of us. Really the advice should be for at risk groups to isolate immediately and for them to be supported in doing that whilst the rest of us just get on with everyday life and when we fall ill, tuck up in bed for a week or so. But you need it to spread. That is the Elephant in the Room here that no politician really has the courage to admit to. Lockdowns are the political version of panic buying loo-rolls. That need to be seen to do something, rather than just accepting that this is how life is. I know what herd immunity is, I was simply stating that scientists seem reluctant to say whether this would work. Every time I think I know something an expert seems to contradict it, hence my saying how difficult it must be to make decisions. If the path was clear everyone would follow it; the varied responses suggests it is not a time of certainties.
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taylors lovechild

16 Mar 20 1.12pm

Originally posted by Matov

Johnsons strategy, as advised by HMG's top scientists, is a perfectly rational one. Isolating at this stage is simply ludicrous for over 95% of us.

But you need it to spread. That is the Elephant in the Room here that no politician really has the courage to admit to.

Lockdowns are the political version of panic buying loo-rolls. That need to be seen to do something, rather than just accepting that this is how life is.

I know what herd immunity is, I was simply stating that scientists seem reluctant to say whether this would work. Every time I think I know something an expert seems to contradict it, hence my saying how difficult it must be to make decisions. If the path was clear everyone would follow it; the varied responses suggests it is not a time of certainties.

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mezzer Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 16 Mar 20 1.15pm
I'm not sure that people are getting their head around the numbers (potentially) affected as yet. It was forecast quite early on (when it was emerging from China) that 1.4 billion people could be affected. If you have a 2% mortality rate worldwide, that's 20 million (yes 20 million) deaths. We're at 6,500 and counting today. We're nowhere near the end of this yet. But, however scary that sounds, it still means that 98 out of every 100 people that catch it won't die. So is the economic depression that we're heading for, with all the residual bankruptcies, missed mortgage payments and mass unemployment that'll follow, actually worth the preventive measures being taken? I don't know the answers and would hate to have to make the decisions, and being in an at risk category I'm not looking at it from the I'm alright Jack camp, but I do feel that when this is all over there'll be a lot of looking back and questions over whether it was all worth it. Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.
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mezzer

Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 16 Mar 20 1.15pm

I'm not sure that people are getting their head around the numbers (potentially) affected as yet.

It was forecast quite early on (when it was emerging from China) that 1.4 billion people could be affected. If you have a 2% mortality rate worldwide, that's 20 million (yes 20 million) deaths. We're at 6,500 and counting today.

We're nowhere near the end of this yet.

But, however scary that sounds, it still means that 98 out of every 100 people that catch it won't die. So is the economic depression that we're heading for, with all the residual bankruptcies, missed mortgage payments and mass unemployment that'll follow, actually worth the preventive measures being taken?

I don't know the answers and would hate to have to make the decisions, and being in an at risk category I'm not looking at it from the I'm alright Jack camp, but I do feel that when this is all over there'll be a lot of looking back and questions over whether it was all worth it.

Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 16 Mar 20 1.18pm
Originally posted by Matov Sorry but isolating is not about saving lives. It is all about spreading out the deaths so that come the winter, less people die of the second wave. The lack of a basic level of understanding about how viruses work is staggering. Nobody has a natural immunity to Covid-19. Therefore the only way to stop it is to prevent the spread is having 60% of the population to have had it and got better. If anything those of us who are not in the at-risk groups should be deliberately infected with it. We should be socialising more, in optimum conditions for it to spread. I would happily be infected today so that within 10 days I can get on with normal life. OK, perhaps I am a bit of a lunatic but seriously, the only effective action is to ensure that most of us get it but spread out over the months to come. Not hide away from it now so that it can come back and bite us on the arse in November with a long winter ahead. Catch Covid-19 now if you are under 70 and are not already having to visit the Doctor once a month. Edited by Matov (16 Mar 2020 12.14pm) A medical specialist this morning said wanting to get it is as risky and stupid as you can get looking at the stats of how many get it and then die from it in all of the age groups. If everyone gets the strongest form of the virus there will be hundreds of thousand deaths. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 16 Mar 20 1.18pm

Originally posted by Matov

Sorry but isolating is not about saving lives. It is all about spreading out the deaths so that come the winter, less people die of the second wave.

The lack of a basic level of understanding about how viruses work is staggering. Nobody has a natural immunity to Covid-19. Therefore the only way to stop it is to prevent the spread is having 60% of the population to have had it and got better.

If anything those of us who are not in the at-risk groups should be deliberately infected with it. We should be socialising more, in optimum conditions for it to spread.

I would happily be infected today so that within 10 days I can get on with normal life.

OK, perhaps I am a bit of a lunatic but seriously, the only effective action is to ensure that most of us get it but spread out over the months to come. Not hide away from it now so that it can come back and bite us on the arse in November with a long winter ahead.

Catch Covid-19 now if you are under 70 and are not already having to visit the Doctor once a month.

Edited by Matov (16 Mar 2020 12.14pm)

A medical specialist this morning said wanting to get it is as risky and stupid as you can get looking at the stats of how many get it and then die from it in all of the age groups. If everyone gets the strongest form of the virus there will be hundreds of thousand deaths.

COYP

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mezzer Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 16 Mar 20 1.20pm
Another thought. With the likelihood of major job losses and mortgage arrears on the horizon, wouldn't it be great to have something called PPI to protect ourselves? Any lawyers out there who fancy a radio ad campaign along the lines of "Were you wrongly compensated for your PPI?' Could make a fortune. Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.
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mezzer

Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 16 Mar 20 1.20pm

Another thought. With the likelihood of major job losses and mortgage arrears on the horizon, wouldn't it be great to have something called PPI to protect ourselves?

Any lawyers out there who fancy a radio ad campaign along the lines of "Were you wrongly compensated for your PPI?'

Could make a fortune.

Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 16 Mar 20 1.26pm
We have a ready-made excuse for not doing any transfer business. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 16 Mar 20 1.26pm

We have a ready-made excuse for not doing any transfer business.

Red and Blue Army!

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Mapletree Croydon 16 Mar 20 1.42pm
Originally posted by mezzer Another thought. With the likelihood of major job losses and mortgage arrears on the horizon, wouldn't it be great to have something called PPI to protect ourselves? Any lawyers out there who fancy a radio ad campaign along the lines of "Were you wrongly compensated for your PPI?' Could make a fortune. Misconception It was never designed to 'protect ourselves', only the lenders. Which is why it was a mis-sell.
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Mapletree

Croydon 16 Mar 20 1.42pm

Originally posted by mezzer

Another thought. With the likelihood of major job losses and mortgage arrears on the horizon, wouldn't it be great to have something called PPI to protect ourselves?

Any lawyers out there who fancy a radio ad campaign along the lines of "Were you wrongly compensated for your PPI?'

Could make a fortune.

Misconception

It was never designed to 'protect ourselves', only the lenders. Which is why it was a mis-sell.

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