You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Is Trump going to make president?
November 23 2024 11.43pm

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

Is Trump going to make president?

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 35 of 66 < 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 >

  

davenotamonkey Flag 30 Jan 17 6.37pm Send a Private Message to davenotamonkey Add davenotamonkey as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Well no, its not, he was specific about the ban being against Muslims, not specific nations. Aside from the fact that the nations selected have no reasonable rational as to why they're ahead of other nations, it would have been unconstitutional for him to make a ban on religious grounds (US Freedom of Religion).

As such, its effectively also a ban on Christians as well as other minority religious groups in those countries which are also facing persecution (very unfortunate if you're a Druze or Christian seeking Asylum in the US, who are being murdered by IS in Syria - the Druze and Christian Syrians make up about 13% of the Syrian Population - but are disproportionate in their experience of persecution by IS).

This also doesn't include that fact that the problem the US really has is within the Sunni Sulfi sects of Islam, which typically has its militancy aimed against Sunni Islamists and involved in regional political issues.

Of course Sunni Sulfist militants are quite happy to murder Shia and Ismali Muslims - who now cannot claim refuge in the US (despite being allied against IS in Iraq, alongside the US and being non-violent in the case of Ismalis).

It's painfully evident from your posts, that you haven't actually read the Executive Order.

I'll help you and your buddies out. Consider this a freebie, and perhaps a sensible basis for discussion, rather than the Graun's bile above the line, and the rabid mouth-foaming underneath it. Below is a summary of the first 4 sections of the EO, in my own words, with any interpretive comments in square brackets. It may not be 100% accurate, but it's a lot better than "ZOMG!!! MUSLIM BAN - call James O'Brien!!!". I think the first 4 sections seem to cover most of the topic we've discussed here:

Section 1:
The process of issuing visas is important in detecting terrorists and stopping them coming. Improper scrutiny has in the past led to atrocities. We've convicted loads since 9/11 that arrived on "legit" visas, or as refugees. We shouldn't let in people who want to kill us.

Section 2:
Our policy is to not let in people that want to kill is

Section 3:
(a) We're going to conduct a review on the information needed from ***ANY*** country to determine if it's sufficient to determine how dangerous they are
(b) We are writing a report that is due 30 days from now on this. It will contain a list of ***ANY*** countries that don't provide the information we need.
(c) This is a big task, and we want to do it right. We are therefore going to suspend entry to the countries that Obama already designated as risks that required more in-depth vetting (not least, as processing those guys takes time). We're suspending them for 90 days
(d) Once we get the report from (b), we're going to tell the countries that don't give us what we want, that they need to start doing so within 60 days
[NOTE: 90 days suspension = 30 days for report, 60 days for govs to comply]
(e) If after 60 days those countries ***still*** aren't giving us the information we want, we're going to prevent them from arriving
(f) This list isn't final - we can add more countries to it (just like Obama already did with his "countries of concern")
(g) However, if we want you to come in, because it is in our interests, we'll let you in regardless (yes, even if you're Yemeni, Somali etc)
(h) We're going to get updates on how this is going on a monthly frequency, for 4 months

Section 4:
(a) We're revamping our vetting process. We're doing this to find out if you'll kill us, and also we want to know if you'll contribute to our society, and how much you'll do so. We want to make this standardised and uniform [I assume this means: "if you're being vetted, you won't be subject to special treament if you come from somewhere we like"]. We will find out with interviews, a database of documents (to prevent people copying... umm... passports, for example), and other techniques. We've not gone into what these are [I guess, as they don't want to give too much away - seems sensible, right?]

(b) We will report on how well this is going within 2 months, then another a month after, and then another 3 months after that.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
steeleye20 Flag Croydon 30 Jan 17 6.57pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Trump is a dictator he uses executive orders to bypass the American democratic institutions.

We should not believe anything he either says or does.

Some people on here would have been waving Hitler through saying how necessary he is and all the rest of it.

Shame on you.


 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 30 Jan 17 7.06pm


Below are comments made by Bill Clinton on illegal immigration in 1996. They sound very similar to what Trump is saying now. Don't recall the same uproar, I wonder why.

Clinton: One of these areas is the problem of illegal immigration.
Trump: We have to stop the in-flow of illegals coming into our country.
Clinton: This administration has taken a strong stand to stiffen the protection of our borders.
Trump: We will build a wall, it will do what it’s supposed to do, keep illegal immigrants out.
Clinton: We are increasing border controls by 50 percent.
Trump: We’re going to have a border, it’s going to be a real border… We have a country, we have to have borders
Clinton: We are increasing inspections to prevent the hiring of illegal immigrants and tonight I announce I will sign an Executive Order to deny Federal contracts to businesses that hire illegal immigrants.
Trump: You can be very, very strong. It can be a huge financial penalty, it can be beyond a financial penalty. You can do that with E-Verify. I’m for it.
Clinton: We should honor every legal immigrant here working hard to be a good citizen but we are also a nation of laws.
Trump: We have a country. We have to have laws. We either have a country or we don’t.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
davenotamonkey Flag 30 Jan 17 7.08pm Send a Private Message to davenotamonkey Add davenotamonkey as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Trump is a dictator he uses executive orders to bypass the American democratic institutions.

We should not believe anything he either says or does.

Some people on here would have been waving Hitler through saying how necessary he is and all the rest of it.

Shame on you.


LOL

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 30 Jan 17 7.39pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Trump is a dictator he uses executive orders to bypass the American democratic institutions.

We should not believe anything he either says or does.

Some people on here would have been waving Hitler through saying how necessary he is and all the rest of it.

Shame on you.


Where would a debate be if someone didn't mention Hitler.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Tony Meola Flag 30 Jan 17 9.10pm Send a Private Message to Tony Meola Add Tony Meola as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Well no, its not, he was specific about the ban being against Muslims, not specific nations. Aside from the fact that the nations selected have no reasonable rational as to why they're ahead of other nations, it would have been unconstitutional for him to make a ban on religious grounds (US Freedom of Religion).


The Constitution applies to US citizens. It does not protect non-citizens who want to come here. If they are here and charged with a crime, it applies.

Having said that, a ban on religion is silly because one could lie about it.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Brentmiester_General Flag Front line in the battle against t... 31 Jan 17 3.15am

I'd be pissed of if I were a yank living in in America. The Mexican food, booze and drugs are great. And that twunt wants to cut it all off by firstly building a wall, and secondly taxing Mexican goods to the hilt. What a plonker, he obviously doesn't know what he is missing.

 


"We love you Palace, we f@cking hate Man U, We love you Palace, we hate the brighton too, We love you Palace we play in red 'n' blue, so f@ck you, and you ...

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 31 Jan 17 9.38am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

It's not a ban on all Muslims. Just like Hitler? Yes of course. Hysterical.

The ban doesn't apply to people from these banned countries with dual citizenship so that would allow those more likely to be involved in terrorism in. This would also include the recent 1 million German Muslim migrants where there's also been a few incidents. So they're not welcome into the US for 3 months but they are in Germany.

Interesting on added motives to this with regards to gun laws. Makes sense.

Don't 57% of Americans agree with the ban?

 


COYP

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Hoof Hearted 31 Jan 17 10.07am

I'm amused by the BBC's usual impartial reporting....

Nearly every News bulletin on TV and Radio triumphs "....more than 1.5 Million people have now signed the petition blah blah"

By my reckoning that makes roughly 63.5 Million people that haven't signed it?

Come on BBC... keep schtum till at least 30 Million people have signed the petition... the overwhelming majority of us couldn't give a fcuk about Trump's Visa requirements for the USA.

Also the BBC can't wait to show Protesters all over the major Cities shouting "What do we want? Trump OUT! When we do we want it? NOW!".... or other equally boring s***!

Here in Bristol there is virtually a demonstration on College Green outside the Council Offices every day FFS.

It's the same politically motivated rent-a-mob from Bristol West every time... they all arrive on their bikes, with ginger dreadlocks, facial piercings and goatee beards... and that's just the women!

All they achieve is a complete snarl up of traffic preventing decent people trying to get home from work in a decent time to have their tea and see their kids.

Yet, BBC Points West are there night after night highlighting their latest cause by interviewing some right on Green lefty LBGT supporting workshy activist.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 31 Jan 17 10.20am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Some assume that everyone wants open door migration forever and that it's only good for all concerned. Migrants, citizens of home country and destination country yet probably have very little experience of it first hand.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (31 Jan 2017 11.40am)

 


COYP

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 31 Jan 17 11.00am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

I'm amused by the BBC's usual impartial reporting....

Nearly every News bulletin on TV and Radio triumphs "....more than 1.5 Million people have now signed the petition blah blah"

By my reckoning that makes roughly 63.5 Million people that haven't signed it?

Come on BBC... keep schtum till at least 30 Million people have signed the petition... the overwhelming majority of us couldn't give a fcuk about Trump's Visa requirements for the USA.

Also the BBC can't wait to show Protesters all over the major Cities shouting "What do we want? Trump OUT! When we do we want it? NOW!".... or other equally boring s***!

Here in Bristol there is virtually a demonstration on College Green outside the Council Offices every day FFS.

It's the same politically motivated rent-a-mob from Bristol West every time... they all arrive on their bikes, with ginger dreadlocks, facial piercings and goatee beards... and that's just the women!

All they achieve is a complete snarl up of traffic preventing decent people trying to get home from work in a decent time to have their tea and see their kids.

Yet, BBC Points West are there night after night highlighting their latest cause by interviewing some right on Green lefty LBGT supporting workshy activist.


Your tone suggests you find lgbt activism wrong. Perhaps in your mind they should just have electric shock treatment to cure them.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 31 Jan 17 12.09pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

It's painfully evident from your posts, that you haven't actually read the Executive Order

No I haven't. I did notice that however it contains no details related to terrorists from Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the UAE who were instrumental in killing 3000 or so US citizens.

I also noticed that its specifically levied against nations which have a humanitarian crisis. Its almost as if its about not contributing to resolution of that problem, of which the US is a major contributor.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply

  

Page 35 of 66 < 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Is Trump going to make president?