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The White Horse 23 Aug 15 5.03pm | |
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Quote serial thriller at 23 Aug 2015 3.15pm
A recent survey claimed around a third of the electorate would be more likely to vote for Labour with Corbyn in charge. Most support nationalising the railways and the energy companies, keeping the NHS public, are against military intervention in Syria as they were against Iraq, and even the IMF argues against austerity. Not only does Corbyn represent the views of a sizeable percentage of the population, he actually resides in the majority view on a number of issues, putting him in stark contrast to almost anyone else in the two major parliamentary parties. Of course, public perception changes, and that is something else you have to factor in. Should the leader of the opposition take positions against austerity, against military intervention, against widespread outsourcing, it is likely that more of the public will be convinced by views which have until now been largely kept out of mainstream discourse. That's exemplified no better than by Farage, who brought immigration and Europe in to the mainstream. I wish all of the above was true, but it just isn't , is it? He's a joke, even a proper lefty like me can see that. He'll pick up the tiny green and tusc vote, but. Labour will lose voters to the Tories and Lib Dems.
"The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee |
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serial thriller The Promised Land 23 Aug 15 5.30pm | |
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Quote The White Horse at 23 Aug 2015 5.03pm
Quote serial thriller at 23 Aug 2015 3.15pm
A recent survey claimed around a third of the electorate would be more likely to vote for Labour with Corbyn in charge. Most support nationalising the railways and the energy companies, keeping the NHS public, are against military intervention in Syria as they were against Iraq, and even the IMF argues against austerity. Not only does Corbyn represent the views of a sizeable percentage of the population, he actually resides in the majority view on a number of issues, putting him in stark contrast to almost anyone else in the two major parliamentary parties. Of course, public perception changes, and that is something else you have to factor in. Should the leader of the opposition take positions against austerity, against military intervention, against widespread outsourcing, it is likely that more of the public will be convinced by views which have until now been largely kept out of mainstream discourse. That's exemplified no better than by Farage, who brought immigration and Europe in to the mainstream. I wish all of the above was true, but it just isn't , is it? He's a joke, even a proper lefty like me can see that. He'll pick up the tiny green and tusc vote, but. Labour will lose voters to the Tories and Lib Dems.
I'm not a labour member, and have never voted for Labour in my life. I'm still very much in two minds as to whether I would vote for Corbyn were he to be elected; the reason that I'm sticking up for him so vigorously is because of the soothsaying which the vast majority of people I encounter seem to take pleasure in with regards to Corbyn. There is a fatalistic acceptance among so many people across the political spectrum that Corbyn will inevitably lose, and I think it's a view which is being fuelled almost exclusively through a very narrow right-wing analysis of political history. For example, everyone is harking back to the 83 election as proof that radical politics can't win, but what about the 74 election, where Labour's manifesto was arguably more radical than the one Foot lost with? Equally, why aren't people recognising the significance of the SDP split which fractured the Labour vote? Or you could point to the fact that the reemergence of the left is occurring throughout the Western world, and is achieving incredible success, be it in Scotland, Spain, Greece or New York. People could acknowledge that we have an incredible brew of variables which is causing this rise, namely a rejection of austerity, a fatigue with foreign interventionism and an anger at growing inequality. History never repeats itself because everything is constantly changing, everything is constantly new. I'm not saying he will win, I understand it would be an incredible achievement should he do so. But I know for absolute certain, and I can back it up with as many historical parallels as you wish (Obama, Mitterand, Syriza) that prophesying inevitable defeat is ludicrous. Believing that myth is to accept in full the version of reality and public attitudes created by those on the right.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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leggedstruggle Croydon 23 Aug 15 5.40pm | |
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Quote The White Horse at 23 Aug 2015 5.03pm
Quote serial thriller at 23 Aug 2015 3.15pm
A recent survey claimed around a third of the electorate would be more likely to vote for Labour with Corbyn in charge. Most support nationalising the railways and the energy companies, keeping the NHS public, are against military intervention in Syria as they were against Iraq, and even the IMF argues against austerity. Not only does Corbyn represent the views of a sizeable percentage of the population, he actually resides in the majority view on a number of issues, putting him in stark contrast to almost anyone else in the two major parliamentary parties. Of course, public perception changes, and that is something else you have to factor in. Should the leader of the opposition take positions against austerity, against military intervention, against widespread outsourcing, it is likely that more of the public will be convinced by views which have until now been largely kept out of mainstream discourse. That's exemplified no better than by Farage, who brought immigration and Europe in to the mainstream. I wish all of the above was true, but it just isn't , is it? He's a joke, even a proper lefty like me can see that. He'll pick up the tiny green and tusc vote, but. Labour will lose voters to the Tories and Lib Dems. Surely he's too left wing for them?
mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler |
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The White Horse 23 Aug 15 5.46pm | |
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Quote nickgusset at 14 Aug
Has Corbyn said he wants a socialist state? No. What he has said is that he wants those that caused the financial crash to pay for it, not people living on the breadline. Anyone can say that. Miliband did several times...
"The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee |
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Hoof Hearted 23 Aug 15 6.32pm | |
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Quote serial thriller at 23 Aug 2015 3.15pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 22 Aug 2015 9.36am
Quote serial thriller at 21 Aug 2015 5.42pm
Quote Johnny Eagles at 21 Aug 2015 8.16am
I think a lot of lefties must actually prefer a Tory government, because it means they can spend all day ranting and posting on social media about how 'unfeeling' and 'cruel' they are. Then they vote in someone like Corbyn because it makes them feel good about their 'principles'. And when there's a Tory landslide, they blame the Murdoch press. And tell themselves that the electorate really wants socialism but is denied it by 'the establishment'. Or that voters aren't as clever or enlightened as us lefties with our 'correct' world view.
If people are voting for Corbyn, its because they agree with his policies, and that in a nutshell I how democracy works. To sneer at conviction in people's political decisions is to support the concept that politics is an intransigent and hopelessly narrow cult, and that compromise to the point of acceptance and submission is the only position worth taking. It is actually this exact dogma that I think people are rejecting by supporting Corbyn. Do I think Corbyn can win? Absolutely, and I become more and more convinced he can win every day his campaign continues to surge against almost exclusive media cynicism. Why do I think so? Well firstly his case is different to other left-leaning predecessors in that it has been supported by one of the biggest grass roots political surges in recent memory. Labour now have more than 4x the number of members the tories do. 4 times! And I imagine the age average is a darn sight younger than those in the blue corner. As the Obama campaign and the snp found out, a young mobilised membership is priceless when it comes to campaigning. The other two reasons I think he can win is the two potentially momentous political dates coming up. 1) is the eu referendum, which could totally split the tories and leave labour looking positively united. The other is interest rates rising and the massive hit the governments coffers will take when they do go up. Given what's going on in the eurozone and china currently, another recession/black Monday moment is certainly not inconceivable, and Corbyn's anti austerity message could be hammered him in the face of it. Of course it will be difficult, especially keeping the party together should he win, but to suggest it's a foregone conclusion is myopic and arrogant imo. As for Murdoch, would you not say Johnny that given Corbyn's views are clearly shared by a sizeable percentage of the population, it is at least odd that a supposedly free press contains not 1 major newspaper showing anything other than hostility towards him?
Corbyn is getting the same treatment from the newspapers that Farage is/was getting. And for the record, Corbyn's views are NOT "clearly shared by a sizeable percentage of the population". Far from it.... more people are/were shared by Farage's views and he and his party floundered at the last election. It is you that is myopic if you actually believe that Labour will be in a good place with Corbyn at the helm. Only dyed in the wool lefties are rejoicing at this situation, but they will soon be regretting their actions as this lengthens Labour's period in opposition or worse.
Of course, public perception changes, and that is something else you have to factor in. Should the leader of the opposition take positions against austerity, against military intervention, against widespread outsourcing, it is likely that more of the public will be convinced by views which have until now been largely kept out of mainstream discourse. That's exemplified no better than by Farage, who brought immigration and Europe in to the mainstream. To suggest that UKIP 'floundered' at the last election is ludicrous as well: they got about 3 million more votes than in 2010, but more significantly they steered the Tories to the right on the issues of immigration and still threaten to split the party apart over Europe. Were there to be a proper voting system in this country rather than FPTP, chances are they'd be in government with the Tories now. 1 seat........ that is floundering by anybody's standards.
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Hoof Hearted 23 Aug 15 6.35pm | |
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Quote The White Horse at 23 Aug 2015 5.03pm
Quote serial thriller at 23 Aug 2015 3.15pm
A recent survey claimed around a third of the electorate would be more likely to vote for Labour with Corbyn in charge. Most support nationalising the railways and the energy companies, keeping the NHS public, are against military intervention in Syria as they were against Iraq, and even the IMF argues against austerity. Not only does Corbyn represent the views of a sizeable percentage of the population, he actually resides in the majority view on a number of issues, putting him in stark contrast to almost anyone else in the two major parliamentary parties. Of course, public perception changes, and that is something else you have to factor in. Should the leader of the opposition take positions against austerity, against military intervention, against widespread outsourcing, it is likely that more of the public will be convinced by views which have until now been largely kept out of mainstream discourse. That's exemplified no better than by Farage, who brought immigration and Europe in to the mainstream. I wish all of the above was true, but it just isn't , is it? He's a joke, even a proper lefty like me can see that. He'll pick up the tiny green and tusc vote, but. Labour will lose voters to the Tories and Lib Dems.
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Catfish Burgess Hill 23 Aug 15 6.45pm | |
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There were some in the media suggesting that Corbyn will not be able to even able to perform some of the official functions of the leader of the opposition. It is unlikely that he will be briefed on security and defence matters because he is a security risk. Given his support for any and all of our enemies you can hardly blame them. Good example of a left wing traitor.
Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial |
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legaleagle 23 Aug 15 9.04pm | |
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Best take him to the Tower forthwith (and all who vote for him) and cut his head off,no?. We need a British Joe McCarthy, and quick!
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matt_himself Matataland 23 Aug 15 10.25pm | |
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Quote serial thriller at 23 Aug 2015 5.30pm
Quote The White Horse at 23 Aug 2015 5.03pm
Quote serial thriller at 23 Aug 2015 3.15pm
A recent survey claimed around a third of the electorate would be more likely to vote for Labour with Corbyn in charge. Most support nationalising the railways and the energy companies, keeping the NHS public, are against military intervention in Syria as they were against Iraq, and even the IMF argues against austerity. Not only does Corbyn represent the views of a sizeable percentage of the population, he actually resides in the majority view on a number of issues, putting him in stark contrast to almost anyone else in the two major parliamentary parties. Of course, public perception changes, and that is something else you have to factor in. Should the leader of the opposition take positions against austerity, against military intervention, against widespread outsourcing, it is likely that more of the public will be convinced by views which have until now been largely kept out of mainstream discourse. That's exemplified no better than by Farage, who brought immigration and Europe in to the mainstream. I wish all of the above was true, but it just isn't , is it? He's a joke, even a proper lefty like me can see that. He'll pick up the tiny green and tusc vote, but. Labour will lose voters to the Tories and Lib Dems.
I'm not a labour member, and have never voted for Labour in my life. I'm still very much in two minds as to whether I would vote for Corbyn were he to be elected; the reason that I'm sticking up for him so vigorously is because of the soothsaying which the vast majority of people I encounter seem to take pleasure in with regards to Corbyn. There is a fatalistic acceptance among so many people across the political spectrum that Corbyn will inevitably lose, and I think it's a view which is being fuelled almost exclusively through a very narrow right-wing analysis of political history. For example, everyone is harking back to the 83 election as proof that radical politics can't win, but what about the 74 election, where Labour's manifesto was arguably more radical than the one Foot lost with? Equally, why aren't people recognising the significance of the SDP split which fractured the Labour vote? Or you could point to the fact that the reemergence of the left is occurring throughout the Western world, and is achieving incredible success, be it in Scotland, Spain, Greece or New York. People could acknowledge that we have an incredible brew of variables which is causing this rise, namely a rejection of austerity, a fatigue with foreign interventionism and an anger at growing inequality. History never repeats itself because everything is constantly changing, everything is constantly new. I'm not saying he will win, I understand it would be an incredible achievement should he do so. But I know for absolute certain, and I can back it up with as many historical parallels as you wish (Obama, Mitterand, Syriza) that prophesying inevitable defeat is ludicrous. Believing that myth is to accept in full the version of reality and public attitudes created by those on the right.
Podemos - their support is shrinking as the economy recovers and are now 'embracing the enemy' by doing deals and forming alliances with the PSOE. Syriza - it's laughable that anyone can call this a 'success'. They have led Greece into being an economic colony of Bonn, are divided down the middle and are now simply doing deals to retain power. And therein lies the nub. These parties can push their populism as much as they like when they are in opposition, yet when they achieve power, they do deals and become centre left or liberal. The exception being the SNP which is feeding a bullying, nationalism cause to preserve its power and mask some of the very real failings of its governance in Scotland. Syriza is now 'fighting the enemy' and creating enemies to preserve their power - isn't that something the left claim the right do with Islam or the war on drugs? If you want to believe that the World is on the verge of a grassroots left revolution, please do. However the facts of the situation lend to a feeling that this is not the case plus even when the occasional commie nutjob does get elected they fairly quickly revert to type - meaning either they compromise their 'principles' or they split their party in many divisions and start fighting their comrades.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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tome Inner Tantalus Time. 23 Aug 15 10.26pm | |
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Quote Catfish at 23 Aug 2015 6.45pm
There were some in the media suggesting that Corbyn will not be able to even able to perform some of the official functions of the leader of the opposition. It is unlikely that he will be briefed on security and defence matters because he is a security risk. Given his support for any and all of our enemies you can hardly blame them. Good example of a left wing traitor. Which enemies are these? I see he has some support from a bunch of economists: Perhaps this makes him credible.
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Hoof Hearted 24 Aug 15 10.15am | |
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As soon as Corbyn gets in power he will start walking on two legs.
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leggedstruggle Croydon 24 Aug 15 10.20am | |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 24 Aug 2015 10.15am
As soon as Corbyn gets in power he will start walking on two legs. - quite right Hoof, as you no doubt know "Four legs good, two legs better".
mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler |
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