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Rudi Hedman Caterham 23 Feb 19 11.17am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I don't believe this issue has anything to do with left or right politics and those who claim it does are either misunderstanding it or being disingenuous. Freedom of speech is important to everyone, whatever their political views. It is a precious right which needs to be defended by us all. However, along with our rights come responsibilities. Total freedom to say and do what ever you like does not exist in a democracy, where obeying the law and ensuring order exists. Only if you are an anarchist can you argue for total freedom. You can argue that the laws are too restrictive but you cannot ignore the laws in the meantime without risking punishment. So if you believe any organisation, or individual, has unlawfully attempted to restrict your freedom of speech then argue your case to have it restored. However, if you have unlawfully said or done things then the responsibility lies with you. Hate speech is unlawful. You might not like that fact, but it is. Defining it is sometimes tricky but that doesn't mean it isn't a fact. As this applies to everyone their politics have nothing to do with it. I would defend your right to say whatever you like, provided it stays lawful, and is done in a public space. Individual organisations and forums can decide for themselves what their content is and allow whatever they like, so long as it doesn't fall foul of the law. They can though restrict things if they don't fit their ethos. That is their right. No-one has a right to force their way into a private space. I have myself been banned from many right wing leaning forums for posting completely legal views which were at odds with those held by the bulk of the membership and I am myself, despite the opinion of many here, not of the left. You can technically have your freedom of speech 24/7 because nobody can arrest you for it. The question really is can you have your position reinstated from where you’ve been banned? Does this UKIP student’s suspension and possible exclusion stand because it doesn’t fit in with the ethos of UCLAN university, even if it is only the social sciences department and similar?
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Hrolf The Ganger 23 Feb 19 11.22am | |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
Yes, luckily it's just a few online prats who hide behind anonymity Ironic statement. A keyboard warrior (living in Holland) if ever there was one.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Feb 19 11.46am | |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
You can technically have your freedom of speech 24/7 because nobody can arrest you for it. The question really is can you have your position reinstated from where you’ve been banned? Does this UKIP student’s suspension and possible exclusion stand because it doesn’t fit in with the ethos of UCLAN university, even if it is only the social sciences department and similar? Both the student and the university have rights and responsibilities and which would triumph is impossible to know without being aware of all the circumstances. Even then there could be a difference of opinion so that the final decision might have to be determined by a Court or tribunal if either wanted to take it that far.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 23 Feb 19 11.55am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Both the student and the university have rights and responsibilities and which would triumph is impossible to know without being aware of all the circumstances. Even then there could be a difference of opinion so that the final decision might have to be determined by a Court or tribunal if either wanted to take it that far. Politicians’ answer. If there were no circumstances other than those listed in the articles, what do you think should’ve happened, should now happen or will happen? Edited by Rudi Hedman (23 Feb 2019 12.04pm)
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 23 Feb 19 12.03pm | |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
Yes, luckily it's just a few online prats who hide behind anonymity Unfortunately the following is what you’re doing and creating, only you don’t know it, don’t care, or look the other way. I don’t know about you but I want to be protected by people who are the best for the job. Sure, people shouldn’t be discriminated against and I also don’t like to see suited and qualified people to do the job. I believe in a meritocracy, not this bullsh1t. ‘Too white to be a copper? Graduate, 25, who wanted to follow in his detective father’s footsteps was turned down by the police because he isn’t disabled, gay or black. The son of a police chief who tried to join his father’s force was rejected for being ‘a white, heterosexual male without disability’. Matthew Furlong, 25, had applied for his ‘dream job’ as a constable with Cheshire Police, where his father, Liam, 52, is a detective inspector. He performed well in tests and at interview but the force was so desperate for more recruits from ethnic minorities or who were gay or transgender that it refused to hire him. Mr Furlong, who has a degree in particle physics from Lancaster University, lodged a discrimination claim against Cheshire Police under equality legislation, and won. It is believed to be the first successful case of its kind. In a ruling last week a judge criticised the force for treating candidates with ‘protected characteristics’ – including those who were gay, transgender, disabled, black or from other ethnic minorities – more favourably than Mr Furlong, who was ‘a white, heterosexual male without disability’. Mr Furlong, of Frodsham, Cheshire, declined to comment, but his father said: ‘I’ve tried not to get involved. It is such a political hot potato. ‘The chief constable is big on diversity, which is quite right, but it has to be applied within the letter of the law and they didn’t do that.’ The case came as the leader of Britain’s police chiefs called yesterday for radical laws to allow police to positively discriminate in favour of ethnic minority candidates. Sara Thornton, chairman of the National Police Chiefs’ Council, said unless changes were made, the rank and file would remain overwhelmingly white for decades to come. Mr Furlong’s employment tribunal in Liverpool was told that in 2015 chief officers at Cheshire Police launched an ‘action plan’ to recruit more black, Asian and female officers. This followed a government review which revealed the force had no black officers, just five from Asian backgrounds and four of mixed race, compared to more than 1,400 white officers.’
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Feb 19 12.48pm | |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Politicians’ answer. If there were no circumstances other than those listed in the articles, what do you think should’ve happened, should now happen or will happen? Edited by Rudi Hedman (23 Feb 2019 12.04pm) Having not read the articles you refer to I have no idea. I don't read every link which is posted.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Midlands Eagle 23 Feb 19 1.19pm | |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
it's just a few online prats who hide behind anonymity
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Stirlingsays 23 Feb 19 1.20pm | |
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Anyone suggesting that a current legal situation should be accepted which can see a man arrested for publically reading from one of Churchill's books.......Well I suggest that they are on the wrong side of the argument. A state where the Police arrest you for posting rap lyrics or bad taste jokes is not a society that is free. The abuses of freedom of speech in this country....the creeping censorship both by digital monopolies and government is stark......and anyone suggesting that these are realities that should be accepted is simply supporting the imposition of an illiberal state of affairs. The argument that with free speech comes responsibilities is a low resolution argument. Only free speech absolutists argue for no restrictions at all. However the bar on free speech has previously also operated upon the notion that outside of 'incitement to violence', 'libel' and 'obscenity' that speech should be allowed...The bar on speech should be protected from people with 'hurt' feelings...those that cry offence should not be able to dictate what is allowed in the public space......But now that compact has been broken and the bar to legal consequences has been shifted to the extent that 'perception' of offence is now included. This is not something the Tories ever previously supported and indeed, it isn't something the old far left use to support either. But we are currently living in an era where both those camps have been subverted......and we live with the ridiculousness of Tories advocating for rules that see readers of Churchill arrested. Now the support of traditional 'free speech' has become mostly a 'real' right issue....though I will add that small sections of the left also advocate that these new restrictions are wrong.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 23 Feb 19 1.38pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Having not read the articles you refer to I have no idea. I don't read every link which is posted. Politicians’ answer #2. Try after reading it.
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cryrst The garden of England 23 Feb 19 5.20pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Having not read the articles you refer to I have no idea. I don't read every link which is posted. So you can spend hours writing endless posts but you cant be bothered to read for 5 minutes unless its a reply to one of your posts. Ok here are a couple of points from the article to chew on. He thinks halal meat is cruel and wont use subway or KFC as they use halal. People on these shores illegally should pay for their health care. There are others but you cant be bothered to read them unless the above makes you inquisitive of course.
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Pussay Patrol 23 Feb 19 6.36pm | |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
All that bluster and you're just another Daily Mail lemming Edited by Pussay Patrol (23 Feb 2019 8.00pm)
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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cryrst The garden of England 23 Feb 19 8.17pm | |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
All that bluster and you're just another Daily Mail lemming Edited by Pussay Patrol (23 Feb 2019 8.00pm) When it appears on the bbc its a 'real' story then.
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