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Hrolf The Ganger 09 Jan 17 4.11pm | |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
That's clear, you are quite against a fairer more equal society. If wanting a fairer society where companies exploiting workers is dealt with and there is less disparity between haves and have nots is naive then so be it. And yet your party has failed to achieve this at every opportunity. Wake up man.
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dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 09 Jan 17 4.25pm | |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
That's clear, you are quite against a fairer more equal society. If wanting a fairer society where companies exploiting workers is dealt with and there is less disparity between haves and have nots is naive then so be it. I agree that big Companies do exploit workers, and customers a like. Eg A pair of Nike Air Max 2017 retail for about £140.00 they only cost Nike £27.00 to make. On every pair they make over £110 clear profit, that is pure greed plain and simple. And I do believe that is wrong. However and this is where we differ wildly nick, who are you to say who deserves what luxuries in life and whether or not they deserve them. If I work hard and make a success of my life and can afford nice stuff because of the effort I put in to better myself, why should some fat tipex sniffing lazy KFC munching waster get the same as me. f*** that.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 09 Jan 17 4.27pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
And yet your party has failed to achieve this at every opportunity. Wake up man. I note you haven't opposed my assertation that you don't want a fairer society. #prayforhrolf I think you'll find that 'my'party was responsible for the welfare state. But just gloss over that.
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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 09 Jan 17 4.30pm | |
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Originally posted by dannyh
I agree that big Companies do exploit workers, and customers a like. Eg A pair of Nike Air Max 2017 retail for about £140.00 they only cost Nike £27.00 to make. On every pair they make over £110 clear profit, that is pure greed plain and simple. And I do believe that is wrong. However and this is where we differ wildly nick, who are you to say who deserves what luxuries in life and whether or not they deserve them. If I work hard and make a success of my life and can afford nice stuff because of the effort I put in to better myself, why should some fat tipex sniffing lazy KFC munching waster get the same as me. f*** that. Completely agree, I'm not saying lazy wasters should get the same as someone what works hard, but not everyone gets the same life chances.
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hedgehog50 Croydon 09 Jan 17 4.38pm | |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Black players having bananas thrown onto the pitch wasn't a racist act then? It's a thought crime. The Kkk can't be racist either following this logic. You need to refer your questions to Jamie. He is the one who is saying that race does not exist.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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hedgehog50 Croydon 09 Jan 17 4.41pm | |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
I note you haven't opposed my assertation that you don't want a fairer society. #prayforhrolf I think you'll find that 'my'party was responsible for the welfare state. But just gloss over that. What do you mean by 'fairer'? Would you say that Soviet Russia was 'fairer' economically than Tsarist Russia, and if so, was the millions of deaths and the general awfulness of Soviet life worth it?
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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Hrolf The Ganger 09 Jan 17 4.47pm | |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
I note you haven't opposed my assertation that you don't want a fairer society. #prayforhrolf I thought it was money borrowed from America after the War. We have seen a fairer society over the last couple of centuries. I would agree that the distribution of wealth could improve but whey would people ever be happy? It is in the nature of people to never be content.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 09 Jan 17 4.47pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
So the 'racially aggravated' bit that is tagged on to many crimes these days (usually to those crimes where the defendant's ethnicity and cultural grouping tends to be towards the lighter end of the spectrum) is a kind of 'thought crime' then. Actually, no, because the onus is on the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt, that the crime was 'racially' motivated - and that the crime existed. An assault charged as a hate crime, must first meet the legal requirement of being an assault, and then prove that the assault occurred because of the perpetrators specific hatred and prejudice. Where as thought crime has no victim, nor necessity to prove or fair trial. If hate crimes were thought crimes, then they would not require proof of a crime being committed, only that the individual may be exhibiting unacceptable thoughts deemed so by the state. In deed the only crime that Winston Smith commits is one that the state has in effect entrapped him into making. The point of Thought Crime, isn't about the crime or the victim, but the power of the state to do as it wishes with impunity. Which is utterly a contradiction to protecting citizens of society from being targeted by crimes based entirely on superficial factors of their being (ie their ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation). Thought crime, is the perpetration of hate, not the protection of society from people who act out their hate.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 09 Jan 17 4.48pm | |
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Originally posted by legaleagle
If its a physical assault type of crime then unfortunately its very much an action crime.. All hate crimes, in the UK, require an actual crime to have occurred, that even if the element of race was not involved, would fall under criminal law.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Sedlescombe Sedlescombe 09 Jan 17 4.50pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
What do you mean by 'fairer'? Would you say that Soviet Russia was 'fairer' economically than Tsarist Russia, and if so, was the millions of deaths and the general awfulness of Soviet life worth it? All the Russian revolution did was swap one tsar for another. Fairness had precious little to do with it. However you highlight a genuine point. Fairness has many different meanings and is not exactly a very helpful political slogan though still better than the devil-take-the-hindmost neo-liberalism that we have seen stuck with since the eighties and which Donald Trump himself claims to want to bury. Whether he will remains to be seen
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Hrolf The Ganger 09 Jan 17 4.51pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Actually, no, because the onus is on the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt, that the crime was 'racially' motivated - and that the crime existed. An assault charged as a hate crime, must first meet the legal requirement of being an assault, and then prove that the assault occurred because of the perpetrators specific hatred and prejudice. Where as thought crime has no victim, nor necessity to prove or fair trial. If hate crimes were thought crimes, then they would not require proof of a crime being committed, only that the individual may be exhibiting unacceptable thoughts deemed so by the state. In deed the only crime that Winston Smith commits is one that the state has in effect entrapped him into making. The point of Thought Crime, isn't about the crime or the victim, but the power of the state to do as it wishes with impunity. Which is utterly a contradiction to protecting citizens of society from being targeted by crimes based entirely on superficial factors of their being (ie their ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation). Thought crime, is the perpetration of hate, not the protection of society from people who act out their hate. I love a good 1984 reference.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 09 Jan 17 4.54pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Dude. You do realise that musical taste is totally subjective right? You like Jazz, I prefer Slade. Actually I like some occasional jazz too. And the origin of musical style is not really relevant to my statement. I know you like to bang on about how the white man stole all the music but I'd say we improved it. What's this we business. The white man, and the black man, don't own or improve music, musicians do, irrespective of their race or gender. Rick Rubin is as important to hip hop as Chuck Berry is to rock. The whole point about music really is that its an art that is a cultural melting pot. The only real race issues around music tend to have been about exploitation of black artists, and even then most of the labels of their day were progressive by societies general standards.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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