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npn Crowborough 09 May 14 11.13am
Quote nickgusset at 09 May 2014 10.54am Quote Johnny Eagles at 09 May 2014 10.41am Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 8.27am They could well be an unwitting Trojan horse for those with real and dangerous right wing beliefs in the future once they get a small foothold. Not quite sure how it will evolve but purely from an historical perspective better not to take any chances imo with helping a party which could easily swing much further to the right gain some actual power. Having bordering on extreme politicians I'm a bit puzzled, Kermit. On the one hand you say they are extremists, on the other hand that they are an unwitting Trojan Horse. A lot of your opposition to UKIP seems based on the premise that they are extremist, dangerous, right-wing, etc. Yet you and Nick and Serial and Willo haven't actually offered much substance to back up this assertion. It smacks of fear-mongering to be honest. Well funnily enough, I can't find anywhere on the ukip site that they want to scrap the right to paid holiday, maternity pay and want to introduce a flat rate of tax which benefits high earners but penalises the low paid. However I have seen these assertions on many other sites. Surely that's just rumour and hearsay then, unless those sites are in any way affiliated to the party? I could put on hear that the LibDems plan to kill all the first born sons - it's on a site, but doesn't make it true.
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npn

Crowborough 09 May 14 11.13am

Quote nickgusset at 09 May 2014 10.54am

Quote Johnny Eagles at 09 May 2014 10.41am

Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 8.27am

They could well be an unwitting Trojan horse for those with real and dangerous right wing beliefs in the future once they get a small foothold.

Not quite sure how it will evolve but purely from an historical perspective better not to take any chances imo with helping a party which could easily swing much further to the right gain some actual power.

Having bordering on extreme politicians

I'm a bit puzzled, Kermit. On the one hand you say they are extremists, on the other hand that they are an unwitting Trojan Horse.

A lot of your opposition to UKIP seems based on the premise that they are extremist, dangerous, right-wing, etc. Yet you and Nick and Serial and Willo haven't actually offered much substance to back up this assertion.

It smacks of fear-mongering to be honest.

Well funnily enough, I can't find anywhere on the ukip site that they want to scrap the right to paid holiday, maternity pay and want to introduce a flat rate of tax which benefits high earners but penalises the low paid.
However I have seen these assertions on many other sites.

Surely that's just rumour and hearsay then, unless those sites are in any way affiliated to the party?

I could put on hear that the LibDems plan to kill all the first born sons - it's on a site, but doesn't make it true.

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Kermit8 Hevon 09 May 14 11.42am
Quote Johnny Eagles at 09 May 2014 10.41am Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 8.27am They could well be an unwitting Trojan horse for those with real and dangerous right wing beliefs in the future once they get a small foothold. Not quite sure how it will evolve but purely from an historical perspective better not to take any chances imo with helping a party which could easily swing much further to the right gain some actual power. Having bordering on extreme politicians I'm a bit puzzled, Kermit. On the one hand you say they are extremists, on the other hand that they are an unwitting Trojan Horse. A lot of your opposition to UKIP seems based on the premise that they are extremist, dangerous, right-wing, etc. Yet you and Nick and Serial and Willo haven't actually offered much substance to back up this assertion. It smacks of fear-mongering to be honest. No. I have never once said they were extremists. You know how you hate others putting words into your posts that you haven't written.......well? What have you got to say for yourself? I'm disgusted frankly. They are RIGHT wing. Very right wing. I believe those non-party affiliated extreme right wing will then hop aboard if there is power to be had and UKIP as it stands will allow them membership. The Wets will then be ousted Nigel et al. Edited by Kermit8 (09 May 2014 11.46am) Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 09 May 14 11.42am

Quote Johnny Eagles at 09 May 2014 10.41am

Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 8.27am

They could well be an unwitting Trojan horse for those with real and dangerous right wing beliefs in the future once they get a small foothold.

Having bordering on extreme politicians

I'm a bit puzzled, Kermit. On the one hand you say they are extremists, on the other hand that they are an unwitting Trojan Horse.

It smacks of fear-mongering to be honest.

No. I have never once said they were extremists. You know how you hate others putting words into your posts that you haven't written.......well? What have you got to say for yourself? I'm disgusted frankly.

They are RIGHT wing. Very right wing. I believe those non-party affiliated extreme right wing will then hop aboard if there is power to be had and UKIP as it stands will allow them membership. The Wets will then be ousted Nigel et al.

Edited by Kermit8 (09 May 2014 11.46am)

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 09 May 14 11.48am
Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 11.42am They are RIGHT wing. Nothing wrong in being "RIGHT wing". I am unashamedly right-wing and a Thatcherite to boot but I wouldn't describe myself as an "Extremist".
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 09 May 14 11.48am

Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 11.42am

They are RIGHT wing.

Nothing wrong in being "RIGHT wing". I am unashamedly right-wing and a Thatcherite to boot but I wouldn't describe myself as an "Extremist".

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npn Crowborough 09 May 14 11.53am
Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 11.42am Quote Johnny Eagles at 09 May 2014 10.41am Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 8.27am They could well be an unwitting Trojan horse for those with real and dangerous right wing beliefs in the future once they get a small foothold. Not quite sure how it will evolve but purely from an historical perspective better not to take any chances imo with helping a party which could easily swing much further to the right gain some actual power. Having bordering on extreme politicians I'm a bit puzzled, Kermit. On the one hand you say they are extremists, on the other hand that they are an unwitting Trojan Horse. A lot of your opposition to UKIP seems based on the premise that they are extremist, dangerous, right-wing, etc. Yet you and Nick and Serial and Willo haven't actually offered much substance to back up this assertion. It smacks of fear-mongering to be honest. No. I have never once said they were extremists. You know how you hate others putting words into your posts that you haven't written.......well? What have you got to say for yourself? I'm disgusted frankly. They are RIGHT wing. Very right wing. I believe those non-party affiliated extreme right wing will then hop aboard if there is power to be had and UKIP as it stands will allow them membership. The Wets will then be ousted Nigel et al. Edited by Kermit8 (09 May 2014 11.46am) I do get your point Kerms, well sort of, but you can only vote for what's in front of you, surely, not what may happen in years to come. I'm sure not many will be refusing to vote Labour because Ed has a bit of a left wing background and therefore it's only a matter of time before the communists would be in power. If UKIP move further to the right and become more extreme, I'd expect them to lose support. What I would anticipate happening, however, is that IF they can establish themselves as a mainstream party, they will get a better class of candidates (less oddball nutters, more people with a bit of a clue) more keen to align with a more acceptable party. Edited by npn (09 May 2014 11.53am)
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npn

Crowborough 09 May 14 11.53am

Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 11.42am

Quote Johnny Eagles at 09 May 2014 10.41am

Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 8.27am

They could well be an unwitting Trojan horse for those with real and dangerous right wing beliefs in the future once they get a small foothold.

Having bordering on extreme politicians

I'm a bit puzzled, Kermit. On the one hand you say they are extremists, on the other hand that they are an unwitting Trojan Horse.

It smacks of fear-mongering to be honest.

Edited by Kermit8 (09 May 2014 11.46am)

I do get your point Kerms, well sort of, but you can only vote for what's in front of you, surely, not what may happen in years to come. I'm sure not many will be refusing to vote Labour because Ed has a bit of a left wing background and therefore it's only a matter of time before the communists would be in power.

If UKIP move further to the right and become more extreme, I'd expect them to lose support. What I would anticipate happening, however, is that IF they can establish themselves as a mainstream party, they will get a better class of candidates (less oddball nutters, more people with a bit of a clue) more keen to align with a more acceptable party.

Edited by npn (09 May 2014 11.53am)

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Kermit8 Hevon 09 May 14 11.56am
Quote Willo at 09 May 2014 11.48am Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 11.42am They are RIGHT wing. Nothing wrong in being "RIGHT wing". I am unashamedly right-wing and a Thatcherite to boot but I wouldn't describe myself as an "Extremist". Nor would I. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 09 May 14 11.56am

Quote Willo at 09 May 2014 11.48am

Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 11.42am

They are RIGHT wing.

Nothing wrong in being "RIGHT wing". I am unashamedly right-wing and a Thatcherite to boot but I wouldn't describe myself as an "Extremist".

Nor would I.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 09 May 14 12.01pm
Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 11.56am Nor would I. In one of the many political arguments I have got embroiled in, some oaf said that I was "To the right of Ghengis Khan". !!!!
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 09 May 14 12.01pm

Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 11.56am

Nor would I.

In one of the many political arguments I have got embroiled in, some oaf said that I was "To the right of Ghengis Khan". !!!!

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Kermit8 Hevon 09 May 14 12.05pm
Quote npn at 09 May 2014 11.53am Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 11.42am Quote Johnny Eagles at 09 May 2014 10.41am Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 8.27am They could well be an unwitting Trojan horse for those with real and dangerous right wing beliefs in the future once they get a small foothold. Not quite sure how it will evolve but purely from an historical perspective better not to take any chances imo with helping a party which could easily swing much further to the right gain some actual power. Having bordering on extreme politicians I'm a bit puzzled, Kermit. On the one hand you say they are extremists, on the other hand that they are an unwitting Trojan Horse. A lot of your opposition to UKIP seems based on the premise that they are extremist, dangerous, right-wing, etc. Yet you and Nick and Serial and Willo haven't actually offered much substance to back up this assertion. It smacks of fear-mongering to be honest. No. I have never once said they were extremists. You know how you hate others putting words into your posts that you haven't written.......well? What have you got to say for yourself? I'm disgusted frankly. They are RIGHT wing. Very right wing. I believe those non-party affiliated extreme right wing will then hop aboard if there is power to be had and UKIP as it stands will allow them membership. The Wets will then be ousted Nigel et al. Edited by Kermit8 (09 May 2014 11.46am) I do get your point Kerms, well sort of, but you can only vote for what's in front of you, surely, not what may happen in years to come. I'm sure not many will be refusing to vote Labour because Ed has a bit of a left wing background and therefore it's only a matter of time before the communists would be in power. If UKIP move further to the right and become more extreme, I'd expect them to lose support. What I would anticipate happening, however, is that IF they can establish themselves as a mainstream party, they will get a better class of candidates (less oddball nutters, more people with a bit of a clue) more keen to align with a more acceptable party. Edited by npn (09 May 2014 11.53am) Your glass if half-full when it comes to UKIP. Mine is half- empty . I think it is unlikely that they won't become more right-wing if they get some power npn and attract dangerous types. The only other way is they become mainstream as you mentioned but that will dilute what they are about now and inevitably turn them into the watery politicians in the House of Commons of today. It's a lose lose as far I can make out unless one doesn't mind some Milosevic and Mosley types possibly having a say a few years down the line. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 09 May 14 12.05pm

Quote npn at 09 May 2014 11.53am

Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 11.42am

Quote Johnny Eagles at 09 May 2014 10.41am

Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 8.27am

They could well be an unwitting Trojan horse for those with real and dangerous right wing beliefs in the future once they get a small foothold.

Having bordering on extreme politicians

I'm a bit puzzled, Kermit. On the one hand you say they are extremists, on the other hand that they are an unwitting Trojan Horse.

It smacks of fear-mongering to be honest.

Edited by Kermit8 (09 May 2014 11.46am)

Edited by npn (09 May 2014 11.53am)

Your glass if half-full when it comes to UKIP. Mine is half- empty . I think it is unlikely that they won't become more right-wing if they get some power npn and attract dangerous types. The only other way is they become mainstream as you mentioned but that will dilute what they are about now and inevitably turn them into the watery politicians in the House of Commons of today.

It's a lose lose as far I can make out unless one doesn't mind some Milosevic and Mosley types possibly having a say a few years down the line.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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npn Crowborough 09 May 14 12.08pm
Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 12.05pm Quote npn at 09 May 2014 11.53am Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 11.42am Quote Johnny Eagles at 09 May 2014 10.41am Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 8.27am They could well be an unwitting Trojan horse for those with real and dangerous right wing beliefs in the future once they get a small foothold. Not quite sure how it will evolve but purely from an historical perspective better not to take any chances imo with helping a party which could easily swing much further to the right gain some actual power. Having bordering on extreme politicians I'm a bit puzzled, Kermit. On the one hand you say they are extremists, on the other hand that they are an unwitting Trojan Horse. A lot of your opposition to UKIP seems based on the premise that they are extremist, dangerous, right-wing, etc. Yet you and Nick and Serial and Willo haven't actually offered much substance to back up this assertion. It smacks of fear-mongering to be honest. No. I have never once said they were extremists. You know how you hate others putting words into your posts that you haven't written.......well? What have you got to say for yourself? I'm disgusted frankly. They are RIGHT wing. Very right wing. I believe those non-party affiliated extreme right wing will then hop aboard if there is power to be had and UKIP as it stands will allow them membership. The Wets will then be ousted Nigel et al. Edited by Kermit8 (09 May 2014 11.46am) I do get your point Kerms, well sort of, but you can only vote for what's in front of you, surely, not what may happen in years to come. I'm sure not many will be refusing to vote Labour because Ed has a bit of a left wing background and therefore it's only a matter of time before the communists would be in power. If UKIP move further to the right and become more extreme, I'd expect them to lose support. What I would anticipate happening, however, is that IF they can establish themselves as a mainstream party, they will get a better class of candidates (less oddball nutters, more people with a bit of a clue) more keen to align with a more acceptable party. Edited by npn (09 May 2014 11.53am) Your glass if half-full when it comes to UKIP. Mine is half- empty . I think it is unlikely that they won't become more right-wing if they get some power npn and attract dangerous types. The only other way is they become mainstream as you mentioned but that will dilute what they are about now and inevitably turn them into the watery politicians in the House of Commons of today. It's a lose lose as far I can make out unless one doesn't mind some Milosevic and Mosley types possibly having a say a few years down the line. Of course it's possible, but given the misgivings many have about them now, I can't see a lurch further to the right doing anything for them other than alienating large sections of their support base, and they would drift back into obscurity
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npn

Crowborough 09 May 14 12.08pm

Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 12.05pm

Quote npn at 09 May 2014 11.53am

Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 11.42am

Quote Johnny Eagles at 09 May 2014 10.41am

Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 8.27am

They could well be an unwitting Trojan horse for those with real and dangerous right wing beliefs in the future once they get a small foothold.

Having bordering on extreme politicians

I'm a bit puzzled, Kermit. On the one hand you say they are extremists, on the other hand that they are an unwitting Trojan Horse.

It smacks of fear-mongering to be honest.

Edited by Kermit8 (09 May 2014 11.46am)

Edited by npn (09 May 2014 11.53am)

It's a lose lose as far I can make out unless one doesn't mind some Milosevic and Mosley types possibly having a say a few years down the line.

Of course it's possible, but given the misgivings many have about them now, I can't see a lurch further to the right doing anything for them other than alienating large sections of their support base, and they would drift back into obscurity

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 09 May 14 12.16pm
Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 12.05pm I think it is unlikely that they won't become more right-wing if they get some power npn and attract dangerous types. I am not sayinf these types re "Dangerous" but they have attracted types like : 1. That chap who was in a UKIP promotion advertisement who was taken to task for his comments. 2. A current UKIP MEP who called for British muslims to sign a special code of conduct saying they would not engage in any violent Jihad. 3. Godfrey Bloom of the "Bongo Bongo Land" comments. Also in the EU Parliament, Farage Chairs the 'Europe of Freedom and Democracy' Group which contains members of the xenophobic Italian 'National League'. Anyway, I have said enough about UKIP !
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 09 May 14 12.16pm

Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 12.05pm

I think it is unlikely that they won't become more right-wing if they get some power npn and attract dangerous types.

I am not sayinf these types re "Dangerous" but they have attracted types like :

1. That chap who was in a UKIP promotion advertisement who was taken to task for his comments.
2. A current UKIP MEP who called for British muslims to sign a special code of conduct saying they would not engage in any violent Jihad.
3. Godfrey Bloom of the "Bongo Bongo Land" comments.

Also in the EU Parliament, Farage Chairs the 'Europe of Freedom and Democracy' Group which contains members of the xenophobic Italian 'National League'.
Anyway, I have said enough about UKIP !

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Johnny Eagles berlin 09 May 14 12.17pm
Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 8.27am Having bordering on extreme politicians in the Houses of Commons IF they end up having real power somehow one day will only make the country even more divided and ill at ease with itself. You called UKIP "bordering on extreme politicians" - I took that to mean you thought they were extremist. But you didn't say extremist, so I apologise for misrepresenting you. ...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...
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Johnny Eagles

berlin 09 May 14 12.17pm

Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 8.27am

Having bordering on extreme politicians in the Houses of Commons IF they end up having real power somehow one day will only make the country even more divided and ill at ease with itself.

You called UKIP "bordering on extreme politicians" - I took that to mean you thought they were extremist.

But you didn't say extremist, so I apologise for misrepresenting you.

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

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Kermit8 Hevon 09 May 14 12.38pm
Quote Johnny Eagles at 09 May 2014 12.17pm Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 8.27am Having bordering on extreme politicians in the Houses of Commons IF they end up having real power somehow one day will only make the country even more divided and ill at ease with itself. You called UKIP "bordering on extreme politicians" - I took that to mean you thought they were extremist. But you didn't say extremist, so I apologise for misrepresenting you. Yep. "Bordering on"....looking at the political spectrum. Which is why a further lurch to the right will, inevitably, attract Nick Griffin clones. As it stands I don't see any extremists in UKIP. Give them power and that will change. Cue chest thumping, flag waving, insular, male 'patriots' and a demagogue now at the helm reinforcing their views. The old cuddly speak as they find right-wing buffoons will be long gone by then. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 09 May 14 12.38pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 09 May 2014 12.17pm

Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 8.27am

Having bordering on extreme politicians in the Houses of Commons IF they end up having real power somehow one day will only make the country even more divided and ill at ease with itself.

You called UKIP "bordering on extreme politicians" - I took that to mean you thought they were extremist.

But you didn't say extremist, so I apologise for misrepresenting you.

Yep. "Bordering on"....looking at the political spectrum. Which is why a further lurch to the right will, inevitably, attract Nick Griffin clones.

As it stands I don't see any extremists in UKIP. Give them power and that will change. Cue chest thumping, flag waving, insular, male 'patriots' and a demagogue now at the helm reinforcing their views. The old cuddly speak as they find right-wing buffoons will be long gone by then.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Johnny Eagles berlin 09 May 14 12.43pm
Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 12.38pm As it stands I don't see any extremists in UKIP. Give them power and that will change. Cue chest thumping, flag waving, insular, male 'patriots' and a demagogue now at the helm reinforcing their views. The old cuddly speak as they find right-wing buffoons will be long gone by then. I think this is unlikely. Smaller party politicians tend to become more mainstream and risk-averse once they get their grubby paws on a bit of power. npn is right, extremism tends to repel voters, which is why the three "major" parties are so bland and different to tell apart. ...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...
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Johnny Eagles

berlin 09 May 14 12.43pm

Quote Kermit8 at 09 May 2014 12.38pm

As it stands I don't see any extremists in UKIP. Give them power and that will change. Cue chest thumping, flag waving, insular, male 'patriots' and a demagogue now at the helm reinforcing their views. The old cuddly speak as they find right-wing buffoons will be long gone by then.

I think this is unlikely.

Smaller party politicians tend to become more mainstream and risk-averse once they get their grubby paws on a bit of power.

npn is right, extremism tends to repel voters, which is why the three "major" parties are so bland and different to tell apart.

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

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