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Osborne & Google SHOCKER

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DanH Flag SW2 12 Feb 16 2.54pm Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Dan.... you fancy yourself (literally too LOL) as a bit of an accountant no?

Do you have any ideas for designing and creating new future proof tax laws to stop Google and others like them taking the p1ss?

It's all very well criticising the existing laws but many have tried to have wordings that they thought were watertight only to find accountancy firms like KPMG creating ways round them within days of their announcement.

Well I work in tax and I'm chartered qualified so have an inkling of how it all works.

Tax laws are all political. The industry knows it, big business knows it, the government knows it. Every sector in tax has a forum between the government and industry which is effectively for the industry to lobby the government on behalf of their major clients. HMRC stand no chance.

The existing corporate tax rules are are still largely based around the time when the UK was a manufacturing economy producing actual phyiscal goods. It's never really moved on to cope with the big boys selling IP and intangibles.

 

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The Sash Flag Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 12 Feb 16 3.22pm Send a Private Message to The Sash Add The Sash as a friend

Originally posted by Only 10 a year!!

I know someone very high up in HR there :-)

Anyway I have said my bit and I am out, it is a complex issue and I am not sure it has as clearer cut answer as some would want it to have.


Who probably aren't in the loop as much as I am to be honest. Know that from some transaction work of last year

 


As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards robdave2k Flag 12 Feb 16 4.22pm

Originally posted by Mr Palaceman

As to how, well, nations would know that they would get a share of the tax pot of the various companies that trade in their nation. Also, if all companies were obliged to pay their portion at what ever rate was set internationally there would be a lot more money floating around for nations to claim.

How is it like a tax version of the EU? I don't quite get your point there.

First question - who will administer it?

 

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Mr Palaceman Flag 12 Feb 16 9.23pm Send a Private Message to Mr Palaceman Add Mr Palaceman as a friend

Originally posted by robdave2k

First question - who will administer it?

Well that is a good question. Without Googling it I don't know who would be responsible for implimenting international tax/business law. Obviuously there would have to be international agreement.

 


"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead"

Stan Laurel

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SloveniaDave Flag Tirana, Albania 12 Feb 16 10.46pm Send a Private Message to SloveniaDave Add SloveniaDave as a friend

The answer is (relatively) simple. You just abolish corporate tax completely and increase VAT. You could also increase employer NI and business rates but that would simply reduce jobs in the UK.

Large companies will of course still generally exploit VAT loopholes much more effectively than small ones but at least their sales are generally much easier to measure than their costs.

The problem is that it is politically unacceptable to reduce tax on faceless companies and burden johnny taxpayer with the cost.

 


Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

(Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)

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Hoof Hearted 13 Feb 16 11.38am

Originally posted by DanH

Well I work in tax and I'm chartered qualified so have an inkling of how it all works.

Tax laws are all political. The industry knows it, big business knows it, the government knows it. Every sector in tax has a forum between the government and industry which is effectively for the industry to lobby the government on behalf of their major clients. HMRC stand no chance.

The existing corporate tax rules are are still largely based around the time when the UK was a manufacturing economy producing actual phyiscal goods. It's never really moved on to cope with the big boys selling IP and intangibles.

So that's a no then?

I was hoping for a pithy wording/strategy from you that would tie Google etc up in knots!

 

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Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 13 Feb 16 12.04pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Originally posted by Mr Palaceman

Well that is a good question. Withouft Googling it I don't know who would be responsible for implimenting international tax/business law. Obviuously there would have to be international agreement.

Edited by Y Ddraig Goch (13 Feb 2016 12.04pm)

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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Mr Palaceman Flag 13 Feb 16 1.23pm Send a Private Message to Mr Palaceman Add Mr Palaceman as a friend

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

Edited by Y Ddraig Goch (13 Feb 2016 12.04pm)

LOL, I looked at the bit you highlighted 4 times before I saw it.. Good time to use a smiley..


 


"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead"

Stan Laurel

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Sportyteacher Flag London 15 Feb 16 8.43am Send a Private Message to Sportyteacher Add Sportyteacher as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

Well I work in tax and I'm chartered qualified so have an inkling of how it all works.

Tax laws are all political. The industry knows it, big business knows it, the government knows it. Every sector in tax has a forum between the government and industry which is effectively for the industry to lobby the government on behalf of their major clients. HMRC stand no chance.

The existing corporate tax rules are are still largely based around the time when the UK was a manufacturing economy producing actual phyiscal goods. It's never really moved on to cope with the big boys selling IP and intangibles.

DanH: Really interesting contribution from you to this thread. Given your background or anybody else who works in Tax, how would you change the system to make it fairer for everybody?

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards robdave2k Flag 15 Feb 16 9.27am

Originally posted by Sportyteacher

DanH: Really interesting contribution from you to this thread. Given your background or anybody else who works in Tax, how would you change the system to make it fairer for everybody?


The quickest way to sort it out would be flat rates of tax - and a simple transparent system.


The worrying thing is that HMRC is held up in Government circles as a beacon as to how the public sector should operate. Which is frankly staggering.

 

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DanH Flag SW2 15 Feb 16 10.48am Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Originally posted by Sportyteacher

DanH: Really interesting contribution from you to this thread. Given your background or anybody else who works in Tax, how would you change the system to make it fairer for everybody?


No easy answer unfortunately. Even with transfer pricing rules multinationals are still able to shift profits around for certain types of sales so that they arise in lower tax jurisdictions. Agree that the simplification of the systems would go some way to helping. I work in personal rather than corporate tax though so can't profess to be the saviour of corporate tax avoidance.

 

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Hoof Hearted 15 Feb 16 10.52am

Originally posted by DanH


No easy answer unfortunately. Even with transfer pricing rules multinationals are still able to shift profits around for certain types of sales so that they arise in lower tax jurisdictions. Agree that the simplification of the systems would go some way to helping. I work in personal rather than corporate tax though so can't profess to be the saviour of corporate tax avoidance.

Booooooo

We were all hoping the Messiah of Tax Reform was going to enlighten us!

 

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